Jump to content

Got CVT

Rate this topic


Guest
 Share

Recommended Posts

Hi everyone, I'm taking a break to revitalize my mind and get ready for an intense period of training. I do have CVT which I just got and I have not opened the book yet.

Here is my question...

Can a book really make you a better singer? There are plenty of naturals that have never read a book in their life. Not to be pessimistic but reading a book on sprinting won't make you run faster.

Singing is practical application. I have TVS and CVT and know that I want to be able to bridge early and late with basically as much diversity and freedom as physically possible with every mode... on every pitch on every vowel.

Both come with practice exercises and I also have some exercises from previous teachers. After mastering bridging I want to learn 1 type of distortion, most likely true fold...

What is the best way to learn from the books and audio/video lectures (TVS) to become a more powerful, connected, resonant singer? What order and basic things should be mastered before progressing to more advanced training? Even though I like r&b/pop genre which generally lie in the passaggio area I am aiming for as much vocal freedom as possible and eventually hope to learn one type of distortion. A friend of mine here said I will likely need all the modes.. lol!!

- JayMC

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Okay you got tvs and cvt all i can say have fun :) both programs work very well togther as they are very diffrent, you can apply most cvt material to your tvs technique and vice versa.

All in the end is getting the sounds you want, rest doesnt matter. The tvs technique is a great foundation for whatever style you want, cvt can add to that. Pull you closer to what you want :)

Cheers

Link to comment
Share on other sites

As i always say if you understand why you do an exercise as opposed to just doing it you will be way better of. You have way more than enough material and exercises. Its like people training at the gym doing arm curls and their arms dont grow. They are merely going threw the motions and not concentrating on what they are doing and how they are doing it.

And also if your voice doesnt need a certain exercise you should know what that is or you are just going to be continuing to unbalance the mechanism.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Use the CVT to guide you to the sound colors/style you are looking for. Use TVS to train the strength and coordinations.

To add to your other post about mix. Use the songs that you now sing that are in that range and style. Sing in what ever style and coordinations that let you get those notes. Once you get comfortable with those notes, try to lighten or strengthen them.

I have found that some of the songs that I sing, in the beginning they seemed out of my range. But after getting comfortable I found that I could even raise the key and sing them higher without trouble.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi everyone, I'm taking a break to revitalize my mind and get ready for an intense period of training. I do have CVT which I just got and I have not opened the book yet.

Here is my question...

Can a book really make you a better singer? There are plenty of naturals that have never read a book in their life. Not to be pessimistic but reading a book on sprinting won't make you run faster.

Singing is practical application. I have TVS and CVT and know that I want to be able to bridge early and late with basically as much diversity and freedom as physically possible with every mode... on every pitch on every vowel.

Both come with practice exercises and I also have some exercises from previous teachers. After mastering bridging I want to learn 1 type of distortion, most likely true fold...

What is the best way to learn from the books and audio/video lectures (TVS) to become a more powerful, connected, resonant singer? What order and basic things should be mastered before progressing to more advanced training? Even though I like r&b/pop genre which generally lie in the passaggio area I am aiming for as much vocal freedom as possible and eventually hope to learn one type of distortion. A friend of mine here said I will likely need all the modes.. lol!!

- JayMC

A book can help you train better so that you become a make you a better singer. But without applying the content in the book to vocalizing or singing, the mere act of reading the book will not make you a better singer.

Also, regular private lessons with a great teacher brings faster results than a book. Which is also why it costs more money.

I believe TVS covers the general order of when things should be trained. It may not be presented in sequence (at least not in 2.0 if i recall correctly), but if you really study the book and lectures and pay attention to his wording you should be able to figure it out. It's generally common sense too. The safer, easier stuff (e.g. LIPU) first; the more risky, physically demanding stuff (e.g. distortion) later.

Also Jay, did Rob ever send you one of those videos that was titled something like "building the training foundation" or something like that? It's a video he sends to beginner students to help show them where to get started FIRST. Ask him to send it over if he hasn't. Even if you don't feel you are a beginner, you make have to go back and brush up on the fundamentals.

Jay, I don't know what your budget is, but if you can commit yourself to taking skype lessons with Rob on a regular basis, even if you can only afford it once a month...you will see HUGE improvements that you just can't get that quickly from books, programs, and forums.

And go perform...Jay, have you gone out and sang in front of an audience yet? You should be doing that even as a beginner.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I wanted to add that Jens is a near perfect example of a person who has taken advantage of both TVS and CVT. And a few other things, too, including the folds of destiny.

And Jay, I think you are very shy. And that's understandable. But, quit it. Right now. Quit worrying about yourself. Sing the note, sing the song, as a fan. You sang to me, "I haven't met you, yet." Well, do that some more, a few more phrases. Before you know it, it's a whole song.

Seriously, dude, this man of mystery stuff is starting to wear thin.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Administrator

Jay, its frustrating... everything you need is in your copy of "The Four Pillars of Singing"... you have lectures, video demonstrations, guide files, a book, solo piano vocalize to workout with, Training work flows, vocal modes, and vowel modifications and specialized onsets to master. Now you want to augment that with CVI's book... great.

Go practice the "Foundation Building Routine" in "Pillars" and take a *** **** skype lesson with me so we can make sure your doing it all correctly... and your fine. You have analysis paralysis...

Owen is correct, start training The Foundation Building Routine.. if you send me an email, I shoot you the latest version of it... as well as a brand new "7 specialized onsets" video... Daniel is also right, you have enough information and training content now... just go practice and take some lessons with me so I can help you to get it right...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@ronws the reason sir is because I don't feel I'm good enough at all, I don't want to let the song or the artist down.

I go into falsetto on the words "sun" and "chance" everything else is full voice. My full voice is still not good enough yet, why sing a full song in imperfect form Ron? You may have your way of doing things... but as videohere stated in another thread... it might take months to completely nail a song.

@videohere, I do practice but not enough and not systematically... here's me doing a random scale its clip #542 over a week or so. my phone memory maxed out but my brother bought me an SD card so I can record more.

still very clunky but I am working on it, the NYAA really helps me with woofy sounding vowels it sounds funny but idgaf.

If you folks have tips go for it, I don't take anything you guys say offensively as you are much more experienced than I am :) I find that if I actively keep my ribs expanded (thanks Phil) my endurance and aglity skyrocket.... still like I said tons of work to do. I'm actually walking and recording in these clips hahaha!

@Robert Lunte I just started working again I'm saving up!! :D

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@ronws the reason sir is because I don't feel I'm good enough at all, I don't want to let the song or the artist down.

I go into falsetto on the words "sun" and "chance" everything else is full voice. My full voice is still not good enough yet, why sing a full song in imperfect form Ron? You may have your way of doing things... but as videohere stated in another thread... it might take months to completely nail a song.

@videohere, I do practice but not enough and not systematically... here's me doing a random scale its clip #542 over a week or so. my phone memory maxed out but my brother bought me an SD card so I can record more.

still very clunky but I am working on it, the NYAA really helps me with woofy sounding vowels it sounds funny but idgaf.

If you folks have tips go for it, I don't take anything you guys say offensively as you are much more experienced than I am :) I find that if I actively keep my ribs expanded (thanks Phil) my endurance and aglity skyrocket.... still like I said tons of work to do. I'm actually walking and recording in these clips hahaha!

@Robert Lunte I just started working again I'm saving up!! :D

The links didn't work

Jay, you should still practice songs fully even if they are not perfect or not even close. And even perform them if you have the guts, especially in front of other singers or obsessive american idol watchers, both of which may offer to critique you afterwards. Go ahead and even ask them "honestly, what did you think?" It probably won't make you feel great about yourself but man it will push you forward. Or even just sing a super easy song and try to captivate your audience with something that simple. That will really give you some great performing experience, even if you aren't singing any difficult notes.

Jay I don't practice systematically either but I practice quite a lot, and I focus when I practice. Those are the key points. Also, make sure that time is spent approximately equally on singing and vocalizing, and if anything, more so on singing. You can also combine the two, in a number of different ways.

Get on those skype lessons Jay, you're gonna benefit so much from them.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

not all exercises are to "sound good." some like "baby crying," are just that.... loud, obnoxious sounds.

you should hear some of the sounds i make when i work out. i tried to record them, but there's no definition for you to tell what i actually sound like.

and believe me you will gain so much by just imitating a baby crying...each day, 2-5 minutes, that's it (i explained it in another post.)

just cry, you have so much in this exercise.....you have to work the muscles of the larynx, you have to support, you have to crescendo....and on top of all that it's natural ....

i got that from dave brooks.....

it's awesome!!!!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Seriously, Jay? Really?

The links don't work.

You say you are not afraid of review. Yet, you consistently refuse to provide a song sample.

I must lower my blood pressure.

I'm out.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Sorry guys the links were set to private by default should work now. Lol Ron my goal is not to sing to old men behind computers (don't take this offensively) I just want to sing to girls :D

I could care less about what you think of my singing. I just feel that I'm not ready for songs in this range yet... ofcourse I can sing lower pitched songs but I admit that I am weak in 4th - 5th octave I apologize for not being as great as you.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So Jay, send us a file of you singing a lower pitched song.

As a beginner one of the best things you can do is start singing immediately, directing your performance to the public either via the interwebs or in reality, using the limited range you can work with. While simultaneously training the harder stuff in privacy.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just heard the files...sounds pretty good jay, despite the low recording quality. I can hear your voice getting gradually stronger.

Your high range sounds pretty good too. On the line "i bet you didn't think this day would come" you did something different that didn't sound as good, too much twang maybe. But the rest sounded good, as far as I can tell from a low quality recording.

Watch out for the "ae" on "crashing", modify that to an "eh" and it will sound more pleasant

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Owen here is the low part from thrift shop by macklemore... to me this is not even singing its just "phonating low" I guess it's all relative, I just sang the first low song that came into my mind. Have I ever practiced SINGING this low... not really.

It might be because I just love pop/r&b maybe I'm a baritone? Doesn't matter to me I just want to sing songs I like freely even if they are in 4th/5th octave. If I like this genre when will I ever have to sing this low?

- pardon my french folks... it's just part of the song lol! If I'm a baritone I'd accept that too... Omarion is a baritone and he sings R&B just fine.

If you all are just trying to help you sure have a funny way of showing it lol.

Is this the modernvocalist? Or the modern TROLL? :lol: Owen I tried what you said, its much easier on "Eh" it doesn't hurt me to sing there but as you can hear I am very "unstable"

Also I am confused as to the correct spelling for vowels - "ey" as in "hey" or "eh" as in "egg" I get those mixed up.

Here is me doing a siren from Ey (hey) to Oh. There was much "less" of a break.... can someone explain why this

occurs and what I am doing exactly in terms of formants or whatever. Singing a siren is one thing guys... I genuinely believe I would be disrespecting my favorite artist if I recorded a full song with an imperfect instrument.

Some people on this forums say SING SING SING that's only part of the equation imo... i can't sing my heart out if I can't give everything I have to give (every note, every vowel, every pitch in my range). I do not mean to offend you Ron, it's great that you release songs here, more power to you.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Eh to oh is like eh to uh they both help darken the sound, they lower the frequnecy of f2, to lead you smoothly into head resonance.

The artist will never hear your cover don't worry about disrespecting them. Also your voice will never be perfect so you gotta start somewhere.

Jay ill gladly send you a file where i self impose a limit on my voice and then show how I can sing my heart out through that. In fact having limits can help you tap into more dimensions of sound to portray emotion. This is not bs its something I've learned in my many years of experience as a multi instrumentalist and songwriter and it applies to all instruments includes the voice. Limits and flaws are huge triggers for creativity and emotion

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I like the opposite approach Owen. I don't want the pubic to know I work.

Caruso about his singing: "I suffer so much in this life. That is what they [the audience] are feeling when I sing, that is why they cry. People who felt nothing in this life cannot sing.""

Michael jackson: "I'm never pleased with anything, I'm a perfectionist, it's part of who I am."

I want to feel limitless. Not saying flipping into falsetto w/e is not valueable artistically, I also play guitar and a bit of piano so I know that genuine trips and falls are NECESSARY and beautiful in their own right. But l also feel that limits are meant to be shattered.

I'd love to hear a self-imposed limit yet still singing your heart out WITHOUT hurting yourself! lol.

You are also right Owen - this is a quote from Stevie Wonder "Just because a man lacks the use of his eyes doesn't mean he lacks vision." Even if someone has physical limits it doesn't make them a better singer or worse singer.

It's what you do with what you have that's what makes singing so awesome. A one octave range with soul might be able to beat a 4 octave range with little emotion.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

How much have you read by now in the cvt book?

Would you be interested in trying some of the modes other than neutral?

The thing is: you can develop some more strength in neutral, including a darker sound color and you can get a lot more volume out of it on the high notes.

BUT you wont get a significantly more powerful sound unless you learn one or more of the metallic modes.

One of the advantages of cvt is that it puts great emphasis on the fact that singers have various starting points, depending on how they've used their voice in speaking/singing.

This means that for some, overdrive may be the easiest mode to use in the beginning, while neutral for them demands a lot of practice and so on.

The important thing is: Practicing one mode does not directly strengthen the others.

So to get more power you'd need to change the mode from neutral to a metallic mode, whether you do this with pillars or cvt doesn't matter.

But from a cvt perspective at least, you can make such a change rather quickly:

It is not a long lasting gradual transition towards more power, but rather a shift to a more powerful mode, followed by normal practice in that mode in order to improve it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Don't be scares to challenge yourself on the high ranged songs. Yes you migt not be able to sing it but it's development, you learn something new each time. If you restrict yourself to the low end stuff, you will find yourself stuck. You need to grow the voice.

From the sounds of the clips it sounds like you're holding back going into full voice and sticking in a neutral/breathy falsetto.

I was in the studio yesterday singing a few verses for my EP and I found I was singing too breathy. Played with sifferent sounds and then all.of.a sudden just flipped into a fully connected head voice. I feel a better singer in the studio because I feel confident. I like to hear my voice in the headphones, it feel as if my voice is disconnected from my throat and I feel no tension.

Maybe it's because I'm a prone pusher that I naturally put more into it and can't connect to this light sound you are producing. I used to think I'm a baritone and I think the total opposite now. I wouldn't say I'm a tenor. On a good day I can get an e5. Listening to people like KMac aka Kevin Mccall, an artist of Chris Brown's, his voice is mega deep yet he hits notes that I'm struggling with.

Put more power into it bro. Tackle the mountain.

Those who reach, touch stars.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Nalyd! I have been so busy with full time work, saving up for lessons also. I'm going to post a review and samples of some of the modes & tvs exercises shortly. I just got to the part where she talks about "metallic vs nonmetallic" kind of confusing to me lol! I'm at the beginning where she talks about her singing story it's really inspiring but I ususally read a bit and fall asleep and work again haha.

What modes do you think would have most value to me other than neutral? What would give an r&b pop singer the most flexibility he can hope to achieve. I am dedicating friday to finishing the book. it is true my voice sounds very weak in neutral which is definitely a stylish thing for r&b/pop but if you look at someone like Michael Jackson or Stevie... they are just so diverse simultaneously having beauty AND power.

@DStarr I thought Kmac was a rapper! lol D.Starr we both know if you keep progressing one day you'll be the new Craig David ahaha. Imo british r&b singers have a ton of talent and extremely underrated (craid david ,jay sean, taio cruz)

Thanks for the replies everyone, appreciate it!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Jay,

Without a doubt CURBING. In fact you will notice when you read a bit further, that this is a typical r&b thing.

Stevie sings primarily in curbing, Michael primarily in neutral often lots of twang (edge-like neutral)

Great that you take your time reading, and good luck.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Owen here is the low part from thrift shop by macklemore... to me this is not even singing its just "phonating low" I guess it's all relative, I just sang the first low song that came into my mind. Have I ever practiced SINGING this low... not really.

It might be because I just love pop/r&b maybe I'm a baritone? Doesn't matter to me I just want to sing songs I like freely even if they are in 4th/5th octave. If I like this genre when will I ever have to sing this low?

- pardon my french folks... it's just part of the song lol! If I'm a baritone I'd accept that too... Omarion is a baritone and he sings R&B just fine.

If you all are just trying to help you sure have a funny way of showing it lol.

Is this the modernvocalist? Or the modern TROLL? :lol: Owen I tried what you said, its much easier on "Eh" it doesn't hurt me to sing there but as you can hear I am very "unstable"

Also I am confused as to the correct spelling for vowels - "ey" as in "hey" or "eh" as in "egg" I get those mixed up.

Here is me doing a siren from Ey (hey) to Oh. There was much "less" of a break.... can someone explain why this

occurs and what I am doing exactly in terms of formants or whatever. Singing a siren is one thing guys... I genuinely believe I would be disrespecting my favorite artist if I recorded a full song with an imperfect instrument.

Some people on this forums say SING SING SING that's only part of the equation imo... i can't sing my heart out if I can't give everything I have to give (every note, every vowel, every pitch in my range). I do not mean to offend you Ron, it's great that you release songs here, more power to you.

The link to the siren worked.

The other two "Sorry, can't find this sound."

So, now your explanation is that you don't want to sing to middle-aged men sitting at computers.

Fair enough. And good luck to you, regardless.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ron, all the links worked for me

They may have worked for you at the time that you tried them. I tried them just after 7 pm CDST. No workee.

Evidently, the links have been disabled.

But Jay already gave his reasons and I am okay with that. Each person has their challenges and things to work through, work toward, etc.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...