Technique Breakdown Challenge

[MDEW]

Not really a challenge but more of a demonstration from some of you who have a handle on things.

Robert, Felipe and Daniel have a lot of informative videos on exercises or tips on training.

How about a song breakdown, at least a breakdown on one of the areas that are prone to problems.

An example would be "Take it on the Run" by REO Speedwagon One Verse with One Chorus.

This song gives me a problem because the chorus is right in the middle of passaggio or on the edge of Head voice. Sometimes I nail it and more often I fail.

Sing it one time with Too Much weight to were the voice may crack or flip. One time in falsetto. Maybe too much Twang or too little. Whatever you feel leads to common problems. And then maybe a course of action to alleviate that particular problem.

Maybe if we have an example of how "you" work on a song it will give us an Idea of how to spot where our problems are stemming from and how to work through it.

A song or phrase of your choosing that will demonstrate possible problems and a course of action.

[MDEW]

You really think this a bad Idea? We have people asking how to apply these vocalizes to actual singing. Beinging told that their emission is too nasal. Their approach is all wrong and will not work. Getting in trouble because they are not singing forward enough or the sound is too forward.

No, this will not solve their problems. But, it may give an idea of where to start.

If you believe it will lead to other problems, you may be right but we are already trying crazy things to get that line that is defeating us. Pushing notes when we should be letting up instead. Or the opposit Letting up when we should getting stronger with emission.

If you truely believe this is a bad idea let me know and I will delete this thread.

[Felipe Carvalho]

Having an argument with yourself?

I will try to put something together before writing blocks of useless text, dont delete it man.

[MDEW]

Having an argument with yourself?

I will try to put something together before writing blocks of useless text, dont delete it man.

Sometimes Myself and I are at odds. :P

[VideoHere]

mdew, here are a few blanket statements:

sometimes you need to let off the gas, and sometimes you need to really step on it.

you have to realize and accept (not always an easy thing to do) when a song is (currently) unavailable to you. you lack the development...period!

some songs will remain challenging each and every time you sing them.

you must arrive at a point where you are conducting your voice...you have to learn what works for you. it may be a mouth and/or throat configuration you'd never imagine...a level of breath management you couldn't have anticipated, an intensity level you need to be comfortable with, a physical energy expenditure you never had to deal with...a stamina requirement you haven't developed enough yet. you have to be mentally geared up to sing a song that rides the limits of your range, where you are teetering up there praying you make it through, (but knowing in time it will become a little easier).

sometimes a song is a lot more difficult than you realize, and you have to take it on by sections over a period of several months...

does this help?

[MDEW]

I'm not thinking on the lines of extremes. Basic problems that can be detected even by beginners once the issue is pointed out. Every one and every song is different. But there are some basic elements that can be pointed out for a given song.

Also it is understood, or should be, that the proffessionals will take a song and work on it for weeks, months or more before even attempting to record let alone sing it in public. It is not always that the song is out of current range or ability. You may be using an approach meant for R n B when the song calls for Tenor Rock attitude.

That is why I asked for demonstration of how different individuals would approach working a song of their choosing.

Something by Bruno Mars would have a whole different attitude and approach than something from Elvis.

Try either one of those with the setup and attitude for the other and you are headed for failure before you start.

But that is something that even those taking courses for a year may miss because it is not included in the exercises.

[Owen Korzec]

I might take up this challenge if and when I have the time.

[Danielformica]

MDEW i just want to add when i'm learning a new song i always approach it the same whether its sinatra or whitesnake. I don't break it down. I make sure my voice is warm and then I start singing through the song if I get to a part in the song that causes me to have a glitch. It boils down to 2 things 99% of the time, the vowel and the intensity. I rewind look at what I'm singing ask myself if I tried to hard because it was a higher note or did I sing flat because I sang the vowel wrong I make my adjustments and move on. If my voice is balanced and I sing smart It wont happen again. most of the time it happens again because I'm not perfect or that smart:)

[VideoHere]

maybe i don't understand you. are you wanting more how to adapt to the intended singer or genre?

it really doesn't have to mean a major vocal adjustment. it may be more mental adjustment and that mental adjustment gets processed by your brain and you make vocal adjustments according to what dan was saying...pitch vowel and intensity..

you have to be the one that might say, i wish to keep up the intensity in this spot even if the original singer doesn't. i'm going to add a run here, or a belt there...or i'm going to sound like a imitation of the singer's voice.

it might just be that you sound just like a singer naturally..or you worked the other singer and took pieces from the other singer(s) to craft your sound...

in the end you have to work that out for yourself......

[MDEW]

My intention is misunderstood. :/ Felipe had just uploaded a video for Geran89 in which he demonstrated the difference between what Geran89 was doing and what the sound or posture should have been to do what Geran89 was demonstrating. Daniel chimed in and gave a few examples in songs and said to sing. Both posts were very helpful for everyone.

I thought it would be benificial for all to see and hear why certain choices were made in a given song. Not to sound like someone else. But technical reasons for choosing a vocal setup and what could cause problems.

In felipes' video there was a subtle shift in the sound between the correct sound/posture and the sound/posture that geran89 was using. It was helpful because we could see and hear the difference in the postures.

As Felipe indicated in his first post in this thread: Text can be useless.

I did not start this for myself.

To see and hear someone break down a song and give examples of splatting vowels or too heavy of a phonation and how to recognise it is far more useful than writing to someone and telling them that they must make the vowel more round or match intencity or narrow the vowel.

[Danielformica]

MDew wrote

" I thought it would be benificial for all to see and hear why certain choices were made in a given song. Not to sound like someone else. But technical reasons for choosing a vocal setup and what could cause problems."

The thing is there isn't a choosing of a vocal "setup" there is just singing the vowels correctly. If you look at it like a setup your gonna be all over the map. The only time I would say there is a "setup" is on a song by prince where you are singing it entirely in falsetto or you are doing a scream and need to get a sound which is not necessarily in line with good singing. Sing more and you will see where your voice wants to pull you like Felipe mentioned so you round the vowel and it sends you down the path of good singing. And then you might round the vowel to much so you have to open it up a little. These are not "set ups" it is just singing. Mdew I would love to hear you sing something you have sung forever. And then a song you have only slightly attempted to see where you are having these problems. And not you specifically but everyone with the questions that keep on coming back around.

I bet you could go through all the threads the past couple years and have one great vocal lesson tape to work from;)

[MDEW]

I do understand what you are saying Daniel. I do not know how to convey what I am meaning.

Text is useless. I use the term "set up" like Felipe would use the terms "Covering or Forward". Geran89 would use something like "Curbing or Edge". Robert would use "Twang or Larynx Dampening" Owen would.............. Then we would get people debating on whether it was M1 or M2.

None of that has anything to do with my reasons for starting this thread.

My reasons do not even have anything to do with how I would approach a song. It was more to see how others would approach songs. Different songs by different people deciding to use Edge or Curbing or Dampening for their reasons. Maybe giving a word or two why they decided to sing it that way. Perhaps they found out that if they tried to stay in what some call Chest voice the song got too heavy. Then tried Edge on that part but decided it sounded better with their voice to go ahead and use what they term Falsetto. Using their Terms the way They use them. And their reasoning for it.

Nothing to do with me or my training the way I would do things.

[Guest]

Sometimes I use falsetto purposely because it has artistic value to me, it sounds more beautiful and vulnerable. Sometimes my favorite artists break on PURPOSE... for artistic value.

Sometimes when I'm mad false fold distortion shows up by ITSELF.

MDEW... IMO technique can give you the tools but YOU have to be the artist.

[Danielformica]

you can check out my youtube page i give examples on bruno mars to sinatra to cornell to whitesnake. If you ask me how i approach them i would say "all the same way" Read my post #8 in this thread.

By telling you how we approach songs will not help you you.. YOU have to approach songs and have trial and error because you might not want to cover a vowel in a certain song or curb it or dampen it but thats up to you and the sound you choose for that specific song.. cappesh

[Felipe Carvalho]

Ok part 1:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oVVLXnepi-Q

[MDEW]

Thanks Felipe.

Part 1 and part 2 are showing the same video...... Blasted youtube.

[Danielformica]

Guys that was a great demo and you should really thank Felipe for taking the time out to show you this. If I was a beginner or even still now I and yourselves can learn plenty from this. @Felipe Thanks for saying its no different for higher songs. I'm sure that was gonna be someones question:P Also no need to talk about roadsiding or curbing or drywall just straight up singing. Learn fellas no questions now.

thanks Felipe

[Owen Korzec]

Currently watching the video. Felipe, before I forget, I need to call you out on a little english speech error I've noticed in your videos. In english the "ed" at the end of words is supposed to be simply pronounced "d", but you are pronouncing it "ed". For instance the word "based" is supposed to be pronounced like "baysd." Not "baysed", like you are doing.

Doesn't change the understanding, you're still communicating perfectly fine, it's not a huge deal. I just figured I'd let you know the way it's supposed to be in case you care about that kind of accuracy and were unaware of the error.

[Felipe Carvalho]

lol it was my mistake mdew, uploaded the wrong part. Im sending it again, will be up in a few minutes.

Owen thank you man, I do care a lot and I will try to fix it.

[MDEW]

Thanks again Felipe. Hearing the difference when someone is giving examples in song is way better than written word.

Again this wasn't just for me. I had other singers in mind when I started this thread. This type of input goes way beyond written word. Thanks.

[Felipe Carvalho]

Now it should work, part 2:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7pzUowzHMiA

[Owen Korzec]

I experimented with this a bit. I found two ways that seem to work for me.

One is to stay in chest voice but control the volume and support really hard, while keeping the throat open. That way I'm not shouting my brains out. Something like CVT curbing perhaps. Be sure to modify the close vowels open a bit and the open vowels closed a bit.

Another way that would work better for lower voices that can't do it all in chest voice, would be to use a well intrinsic anchored head voice for the G#4 and F#4 and then bridge to chest voice for the E4. If you keep it all the same volume and tone, as best as you can, you can create the illusion of there being no register switch.

But like Felipe said you don't really want to teeter on the line of mix. I believe we can train to get closer to that, but if you are not an super advanced singer and want reliable performance, you're going to want to make sure you decide whether you are in chest or in head on each syllable. Even though you are making adjustments to make them sound and feel as close to each other as possible, still err on one side or the other and know which side you're going to. If you leave it a mystery by attempting to place your voice in this vague gray area called mix, you risk ending up too close to the middle for what your voice can currently handle at this point in your training. The result would be a yodel. Believe me I've had it happen to me live before, it's not good. I'm a firm believer in always having your chest/head decisions mapped out unless your bridging skills are really perfect. Doesn't mean you can't mix some chest into head or vice versa, just means that you have to choose a side to be dominant in the ratio of the two, so you don't end up yodeling.

[Adoney]

Would you want me to break down one of my vocal performances and explain it? I don't know if I have a sound that appeals to most.

[Guest]

Lord_Adon, please do!! I like your voice a lot.

[VideoHere]

great vid felipe.

mdew, from a singer's perspective, i believe it would benefit you more (in the long run) to try to take this kind of song more powerfully and perceive it as you must stay in chest.....psyche yourself up mentally to keep it all in chest...no lightening, no fear, use the natural voice.

then once you have built the power and you can hold the connection, it's easier to let off the gas down the road.

also, never assume because a particular singer has a light sounding voice that he is singing lightly. you will be surprised to find he may actually be singing quite strongly even though he sounds light, especially when singing live..

here's a great song to teach you how to keep it all in the natural voice......just singing a song like this would be a great workout...