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Hi everyone, today I was at my butcher job I went to the freezer room and no one was looking so I did a "aw" in head voice and all I saw was a bunch of "air" I could actually SEE the air leaking out of me...in big puffs.

I thought... this cannot be right... there's no way I should be using that much air for such a small note.

Then I actively expanded my ribs sort of like a balloon expanding inside me under my ribs... and I tried my best to "suck up" the sound or drink the sound like a vaccuum.

BOOM... ultra resonant AW and there was "no" visible air leaking out of me as if the note created ITSELF... in the meat room lol!

This is crazy because I actually SAW the difference between having support and no support... I'm going to be using a boatload of semi-occludeds up in falsetto now hahaha. It was so surprising doing the first AW and seeing a big cloud of air and then the 2nd aw which was "reinforced" by my body which used much LESS air but was LOUDER/more resonant.

Anyone know why this happened? Are my support muscles just lazy? Is this the reason why singing up in that register is so difficult for many males!!! Now I KNOW I'm using way too much air in falsetto... mwahaha :lol: Also a big thanks to Phil for reminding me how important expansion is!

Hope you all have a wonderful day =)

- JayMC

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I'm going to be using a boatload of semi-occludeds up in falsetto now hahaha.

That sounds confusing, to me.

Anyway, too bad you did not have a recorder working, just then.

But I would rather hear a song, anyway. (call me a hopeless romantic. I still like Peter O'Toole in "Man from La Mancha.)

:)

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ronws it KINDA sounded like this the 2nd one is like "air conservation mode" I thought semi-occludeds (l, v, j, etc) in falsetto would help fascillitate a good head voice? Am I wrong? What is the correct way to increase support in falsetto?

I'm off to bed now :)

and the song is coming man!!! i'm taking my sweet time taking it word for word but you will be in the top 20 people to hear it first!

It's going to go: mom, dad, brothers, sister, aunts, uncles, cousins, grandfather, inner circle, a bunch of girls, then ronws!

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hi jay,

first off congrats.....now go celebrate!!!!

but this is another one of those phrases that can get all misconstrued..."use less air, use more air"...

what you need to control is the flow or the velocity of the air so you don't bombard the folds and how much blows by your vocal folds so you aren't coming through airy or drying your folds up.

you added a bit of fold compression and support in an appropriate degree. when the breath tension and the fold seal are in sync things work out right.

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geran I am learning CURBING right now. freaking awesome.... can you explain some ways to get it from 3-5 octave :) for me closing mouth and "i dont wanna go" like the cvt automatically helps me use less air but when i open mouth it is harder to maintain curbing sound.l

How do you recommend learning curbing especially with the kind of "held back" feeling....

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Thanks pal! I find that if i maintain the sensation of inhaling a rose WITH curbing.... it's beast im slowly opening mouth more... wow you seem like you know CVT very well. I'm not finished the book at all but I love curbing. what do you think the next mode to master! for more volume/power. I have been using the method we are speaking of with the words "stop it" and "dont look" kind of like a pouty child. The tone beocmes WAY more resonant even at light volume... however I still crack/flip just more resonantly :P

Do you think Rob does a lot curbing or something else?

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Nah Rob doesn't really go into curbing, not exactly. What he does is more like overdrive-like curbing-like metal-like neutral :lol:

IMO what Rob does gives you a lot more sound for a lot less effort. Curbing is like trying so hard to keep the volume down, I don't get it, it seems inefficient. I'll have to look into it more when I get the book.

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Owen I think the reason why is because curbing is more about flexibility than power, I think different modes are meant for "loud" powerful singing.

I think Rob does a whole bunch of stuff ahaha! However I think Curbing with a slightly low larynx could help get close to Rob sound... for the distortion I have no idea lol!

This is me practicing curbing I believe I let the vowel modify too much and lost some connection and was a little too "light" but I think overtime practicing this staying true to the vowels and EVENTUALLY dampening larynx It actually helps with TVS methodology big time.

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Curbing is the only half-metallic mode. There is a slight ‘metal’ on the notes. Curbing is the mildest of the metallic modes. It sounds slightly plaintive or restrained, like when you moan because of a stomach ache. Curbing can be found by establishing a ‘hold’.

Curbing is used in popular music when the volume is around medium and when a certain amount of metal is wanted on the notes such as in soft soul or R ‘n B. Curbing is used in classical music by men when singing medium volume (mf) in their entire range and when women singing loud (f) in the middle part of the voice and sometimes in the low part of the voice. Curbing is used in everyday life when you wail, moan, or whine.

Men and women use Curbing through all the various parts of the voice. The sound colour can be altered quite a lot. All vowels can be used. However, in the high part of the voice, the vowels have to be directed towards ‘O’ (as in ‘woman’), ‘UH’ (as in ‘hungry’), and ‘I’ (as in ‘sit’) to stay in the mode. The volume in Curbing stays more or less in medium compared to the other modes, ranging from medium quiet (mp) to medium loud (mf). It is not possible to sing very quietly and very loudly in this mode.

Owen think very carfully to TVS videos... does Rob advocate being "LOUD" or "QUIET" I think back to lift up pull back and it seems like finding a balance of air flow, resonant, and "not pushing" the sound.

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but i think 'use less air' or 'use more air' is better as it is the next step on being more specific about the task!

what i mean is, for example in CVT (that you know i like them a lot) i think they also fail on the concept of support as it is too general, yeah you can divide it on levels of effort 1 to 10, but, it remains ambiguous as 'support the note' will vary depending on the note, volume, etc.. and will even depend on the person's habits on how they manage air!!

i think support is 1 word that really means 2 opposite CONCRETE things:

1. control the exit of the air in a gradual manner, while you release LESS air -hold back the air-

2. control the exit of the air in a gradual manner, while you release MORE air -add exhalation force-

This.

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i wish i could do a good job of explaining support for you..it's something that develops....and it is crucial to great singing..i.m.h.o.

the cry or curbing induces it. you cannot cry without supporting.

if you cry, just like a freakin' baby.....don't you feel it engage?

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i wish i could do a good job of explaining support for you..it's something that develops....and it is crucial to great singing..i.m.h.o.

the cry or curbing induces it. you cannot cry without supporting.

if you cry, just like a freakin' baby.....don't you feel it engage?

I am certainly no expert, in fact I'm barely past the beginner stage, but I do a lot of reading and research on topics that interest me.

My understanding of support is the same feeling you get when you try to blow out candles. Not only do I mean the feeling you get in the bottom of the stomach, but also the intensity. I'm sure there are others that disagree, but support is one of those things you don't need an excessive amount of. From what I've read, you require the same support for all singing, not different amounts depending on pitch. Once you require support to sustain a pitch, that is the same amount you require to go higher.

Am I way off the mark here?:)

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I, like Bob, wish to emphasize the importance of support.

However, support is mobile and changes depending on the song and the part of the song you are in. You can go from holding back greatly to mach 2,like that, if parts of the song require it. All this would be easier for a student to understand and accomplish if the would just realize that you do NOT sing like you speak. I don't know how to explain it any better but you guys are just going to have to trust me when I say that, to me, what I am doing with breath feels different with the A5's in "Child in Time" than it does when I am speaking to people at a normal pitch, volume, and cadence. Of course, you don't have to believe me. You can keep beating your head against the wall, something that has limited entertainment value outside of being a novelty.

Motion, when necessary, in the abs.

Note is always in the head, the sound will come out of your mouth. If a sound comes out of any other orifice of your body, it is polite to say "excuse me." Either that or blame it on the dog. :lol:

If you feel strain in the throat, you will wear out and crack.

I could probably make a saying out of those points.

Hmmm .......

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I am certainly no expert, in fact I'm barely past the beginner stage, but I do a lot of reading and research on topics that interest me.

My understanding of support is the same feeling you get when you try to blow out candles. Not only do I mean the feeling you get in the bottom of the stomach, but also the intensity. I'm sure there are others that disagree, but support is one of those things you don't need an excessive amount of. From what I've read, you require the same support for all singing, not different amounts depending on pitch. Once you require support to sustain a pitch, that is the same amount you require to go higher.

Am I way off the mark here?:)

I'd say you're off the mark in that support is not just the act of blowing hard and it does vary depending on the pitch, vowel, and volume.

I'd recommend doing more research on it from different sources, and more importantly, sing. You will soon discover from experience that breath management is very dynamic.

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I am certainly no expert, in fact I'm barely past the beginner stage, but I do a lot of reading and research on topics that interest me.

My understanding of support is the same feeling you get when you try to blow out candles. Not only do I mean the feeling you get in the bottom of the stomach, but also the intensity. I'm sure there are others that disagree, but support is one of those things you don't need an excessive amount of. From what I've read, you require the same support for all singing, not different amounts depending on pitch. Once you require support to sustain a pitch, that is the same amount you require to go higher.

Am I way off the mark here?:)

a little off yes, support does vary depending on several factors.....and just blowing out candles may or may not engage support....like our little friend kaylee in the video (below).in fact blowing out candles (like a non singer might) can be the exact opposite because you are blowing (exhaling forcefully) without applying any control.

you apply breath tension to the vocal folds, not bombard them with pressure.

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I am certainly no expert, in fact I'm barely past the beginner stage, but I do a lot of reading and research on topics that interest me.

My understanding of support is the same feeling you get when you try to blow out candles. Not only do I mean the feeling you get in the bottom of the stomach, but also the intensity. I'm sure there are others that disagree, but support is one of those things you don't need an excessive amount of. From what I've read, you require the same support for all singing, not different amounts depending on pitch. Once you require support to sustain a pitch, that is the same amount you require to go higher.

Am I way off the mark here?:)

a little off yes, support does vary depending on several factors.....and just blowing out candles may or may not engage support....like our little friend kaylee in the video (below).in fact blowing out candles (like a non singer might) can be the exact opposite because you are blowing (exhaling forcefully) without applying any control.

you apply breath tension to the vocal folds, not bombard them with pressure.

now, the little one underneath, is using natural support, notice the whole body is involved, doesn't involve the shoulders, and maybe practicing a little distortion too...overdrive maybe?......lol!!!

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Maybe I should have been more specific. When you blow out candles, using my example, most people will have a tension or tightness in the abdomen. That is what I am calling support. I understand that you don't blow forcefully, or take in breath in a manner that causes your shoulders to raise, etc.

Support, to me, is the stomach and back muscles resisting the diaphragm's urge to ascend, thus controlling exhalation and your singing voice, by extension.

The downward pressure that you feel in your abdomen when you try to blow out candles was my example of what support is. Am I still missing the mark?

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Maybe I should have been more specific. When you blow out candles, using my example, most people will have a tension or tightness in the abdomen. That is what I am calling support. I understand that you don't blow forcefully, or take in breath in a manner that causes your shoulders to raise, etc.

Support, to me, is the stomach and back muscles resisting the diaphragm's urge to ascend, thus controlling exhalation and your singing voice, by extension.

The downward pressure that you feel in your abdomen when you try to blow out candles was my example of what support is. Am I still missing the mark?

That sounds more on the mark. But the blowing candles analogy would not work if you were trying to teach this to the average student. I don't think most people engage support when they blow out candles. They just exhale as hard as they can.

Keep in mind a tension or tightness in the abdomen could also be the abdomen compressing inwards to blow out the air as hard as you can. That is not support. The abdomen coming in slow and controlled while maintaining an expanded back, sides, and ribcage would be support.

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Hey,

Different folks need different kinds of feed-back to 'get this'. The fogging you saw connected to your awareness in a way that imagination did not quite previously.

Personally, I think this is a brilliant, and completely accessible way for folks to 'see' the result of breath management... kinda reminds me of Rocky going into the meat locker, actually. :-)

Bravo for your discovery. In the absence of a chilled room, set a lit candle about 3" in front of your mouth, and try singing without the flame wavering.

Another way to see it.

Or move, to where Jens lives, and sing out-of-doors in december - to - january.

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Another way to see it.

Or move, to where Jens lives, and sing out-of-doors in december - to - january.

Awesome. Now, we know the secret to Jens' incredible voice.

He has an environnmental cue to proper support.

Sweet :cool:

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