What causes distortion?

[jonpall]

Question about grit or distortion: I have books like f.ex. the CVT book and Raise your voice and they tell you their ideas on HOW to produce that sound, but I was wondering, WHY is the sound really distorting when you apply these techniques?

My idea is that the air pressure gets too much for passageway it has to travel through and that causes clipping = distortion. So if you sing a clean, centered note and then close the space near your soft palate slightly, while at the same time increase the air pressure slightly (increase support, I guess), the sound distorts. Am I correct? Just wondering.

[Snorth]

Distortion is created by the false vocal folds interfering with the tone created by your vocal folds. It's pretty much as simple as that. Now the different ways to get the FVF to do that NOW that is alot more advanced. This is all in the CVT book's distortion chapter, you should reread it.

[Steven Fraser]

Question about grit or distortion: I have books like f.ex. the CVT book and Raise your voice and they tell you their ideas on HOW to produce that sound, but I was wondering, WHY is the sound really distorting when you apply these techniques?

My idea is that the air pressure gets too much for passageway it has to travel through and that causes clipping = distortion. So if you sing a clean, centered note and then close the space near your soft palate slightly, while at the same time increase the air pressure slightly (increase support, I guess), the sound distorts. Am I correct? Just wondering.

jonpall: Sorry to say it, but there is no such thing as 'the air pressure gets too much for the passageway...' Also, the idea of 'clipping', which is what happens in amplifier circuits when processing signals which are too high amplitude for the input circuit... this does not apply in the vocal tract resonator at the small pressures which occur.

The Why of distortion is this: The introduction of fairly rapid periodic or non-periodic motions in the border tissues of the vocal tract will cause fluctuations in the glottal pressure wave which are not 'in-tune' with the sung fundamental. When these fluctuations are faster than about 17 cycles per second, they take on an audible pitch of their own, kinda like tuning beats, but worse, and if they occur with consistent period, they will have their own harmonic structure. The presence of two competing harmonic structures (phonation and the other) which are not in-tune causes interference... and this interference is what you hear as distortion.

I agree with Snorth. CVT's materials, especially the videos, are very instructive about this.

[jonpall]

Thanks to both of you for great answers. I re-read the CVT distortion chapter and it cleared a few things up for me. Also, Steven, you may just have set a world record in explaining grit in extreme detail. Thanks as always ;)

[Jens]

Jon pall I think ive told you about the falsefolds before, but distortion can also be done other ways all by manipulating with the vocaltract.

If i dont remember wrong you get to see pictures of how the falsefolds engages in distortion in this video.

[Snorth]

Distortion without false vocal folds? How is this done? And what causes the destruction of the sound waves in that case?

[jonpall]

In that case, Snorth, you should take your own advice and read about about the other vocal effects in the CVT book, such as creaking, growling and other stuff Just messing with you a bit. But f.ex. creaking is done when you are between vocal modes. But I guess that the most common type of distortion is what CVT calls "distortion" and involves the false folds.

[Martin H]

Snorth,

In creak distortion the vocal folds themselves create the aperiodic waves(or sometimes even periodic) that you percieve as "noice". It's sometimes refered to as subharmonics or an ENT would probably define it as a high level of jitter and shimmer. :)

[Steven Fraser]

Distortion without false vocal folds? How is this done? And what causes the destruction of the sound waves in that case?

Smprtj: I think he was saying that you get to see how the false folds move to create the distortion.

[jonpall]

Steven, you must have been typing with your right hand positioned one-key too far to the right ;)

[Steven Fraser]

Steven, you must have been typing with your right hand positioned one-key too far to the right

jonpall: you are correct. touch-typing without proofreading. :-(

[Snorth]

Great answers guys! Indeed jonpall, my knowledge of most of the effects is poor! It is definitely something I should improve on seeing as I get myself confused when talking about distorted sounds in general hehe. My teacher isn't to keen on teaching me the effects yet because he hasn't finished his three year education yet. Maybe that's just good though, no need to bring in effects until you really nailed down singing in general(with the modes).

[VideoHere]

Great answers guys! Indeed jonpall, my knowledge of most of the effects is poor! It is definitely something I should improve on seeing as I get myself confused when talking about distorted sounds in general hehe. My teacher isn't to keen on teaching me the effects yet because he hasn't finished his three year education yet. Maybe that's just good though, no need to bring in effects until you really nailed down singing in general(with the modes).

i keep hearing about c.v.t. and these 4 vocal modes but i've heard the u.s.a. version of the book is not as good as the u.k. version. does someone possibly wish to sell one? it's time i read this this one.

please let me know.

[aldertate]

What causes distortion... the simple answer is... tension.. the one thing I've notice with the fvf method.. is that it takes time to 'warmup' the grit.. which bothers me because.. it's not warming up from stretching, but I sincerely believe it's warming up from swelling.

The other thing... when I would use a tension based technique for recording.. it would throw off my clean voice balance in the passagio.. so... be prepared to have to regroove your voice when you're done using it.

There are a lot of subtle variations that can be done with the fvf grit once you get into it... you can vary the level of distortion and you can gradually go into it (ala Dio on the Heaven and Hell cd).. I have some live stuff I can post where I do that too... it's pretty fun to be honest..

However.. like I said earlier. it will throw off your clean voice balance.. just be aware... I wasn't too happy about that.. hahaha...

[Jens]

Aldertate the answer tension is both right and wrong, the falsefolds will engage when your throat is very tight and tensed, but can also be engaged when the folds are flowing free.

Twang is the key to healthy distortion... Then why can distortion throw off the balance in your voice? There's an rather simple answear to that, when you use distortion(if you use it constantly) The support energy needed will be alot higher, this can throw off the balance of your clean voice because your voice will automaticly after a while get somewhat into the higher supportvalue, then ofcourse if you have alot of tension in your voice overall adding an effect like distortion might not be the best move..

[Martin H]

Great reply Jens,

I believe many of us have experienced that it can be tricky to sing softly/pianissimo after we have been singing very heavy for a while. Our body is really tuned into this powersinging and it can take some time to adjust or "gear down" to sing more softly. This is very natural and related to how the muscles work. Of course it can also be a sign of wrong technique but that's another story. :)

[jonpall]

With regards to tension, in my case I think I'm sometimes pushing the back of my tongue too hard back and up to create distortion in the passagio area and upwards and that tires me out. I'm finding that I don't have to push that hard to get that sound, as long as I'm supporting with just the right amount of energy. Does that make sense, Martin and Jens?

[Martin H]

That makes a lot of sense! When you are not supplying the right amount of engergy(support) -usually you'll try to compensate for that, engaging unnecessary muscle contraction - bad constrictions.

[aldertate]

when engaging the vocal folds to create distortion tension is being added to the mix. If there was no tension there'd be no distortion. Compensating for that often comes with pushing and secondary tensions (jaw/tongue).

All my training is from the old school.. I've yet to hear a singer that uses distortion often sing a beautiful clean line through the passagio and into their upper register without using tension. I simply haven't... One of the leggiero tenors called all rock singing 'worse than awful'.. and he had a great F#5, and had a great line (ala Bjorling). At least one of his students sing at the Met, while a bunch are singing professionally all over the place.

What evidence I've seen so far is that the loss of the transition in the voice is because they've lost the balance. Whether they initially had that, or not, is another story....

I'd love to be proven wrong.. because I think distortion is fascinating.. The only person I've heard use distortion well and not adversely affect their passagio is Thomas Hampson, and that was for 1 line of text in an entire concert.

So please.. post examples.. I'd love to hear them. I'm still not convinced it can be done safely.

Now.. just for the sake of argument... telling me it can be done isn't the same as showing. :)

[Martin H]

aldertate,

I'm not completely sure what you are meaning/asking for. But if it's about transitioning from distortion to clear voice I just made a little example. Bare in mind that I'm not a classical singer LOL:

http://www.box.net/shared/gip2b7ivzz

[aldertate]

yeah, that's the idea...... except I was hoping the examples would include transitioning in/out of the gritty style through the passagio and upper register... that's where I've noticed great difficulty when going from a tension based style to clean. From my limited experience the passagio suffers the most, with the upper register a close 2nd. lmao

I'm not convinced that distortion can be done for long periods of time without ultimately paying a price. Especially when done in the passagio. Rock is littered with singers that have paid the price. I find it fascinating, and would like to continue using distortion, however at this moment I'm concerned about the trade-off.

But thank you.. that's definitely the idea..

[Martin H]

aldertate,

Well, you don't have to be convinced. The point is - in this regard - that I'M convinced because I can do this all day long.

Also, research has shown, that done correctly, this is not damaging at all.

[jonpall]

I can do this all day long - below my passagio. ALL day long, no problem, no hurting, and I'm able to switch between clean and gritty. I have been able to, for a long time. But in my passagio and higher, it's only very recently that I seem to have "got" it, although I'm not 100% sure. But things feel and sound promising. I still need to train this stuff for at least a few more weeks to be sure I'll be able to do it all night long.

[aldertate]

aldertate,

Well, you don't have to be convinced. The point is - in this regard - that I'M convinced because I can do this all day long.

Also, research has shown, that done correctly, this is not damaging at all.

You mention research... could you give me some or places where I could view this myself? I'm glad your convinced. If you could transition in/out of grit on a Bb4 I'll believe you too.. :)

[Martin H]

aldertate,

Here are two videos in regards to research, taken from the PEVOC 2007:

And here is my humble example on the Bb4 (or about):

http://www.box.net/shared/8f9iv35emo