Pure Head Voice Strength

[Guest]

Hi everyone, HOLDING a flow phonation for too long "tires out" my falsetto and also if I do staccatto's too quickly I also get winded. So i have been trying to do the best I can balancing out both to ultimate hit from more "angles" and hope to achieve stronger upper register.

I am 100% sure its lack of co-ordination but also because of the BAD habit of being windy all the time.

I am wondering from ALL TVS or CVT students or anyone with a set regime.. what has been the most CRUCIAL builders and co-ordinaters for head voice.

For me almost every exercise has been useless in getting rid of pesky falsetto.

The 3 that genuinely make me feel "safe" in head voice are:

1. TVS Quack and release... Haw-mm-eee ( i swell on ee which is TIRING but works)

2. the AW vowel idk it just works

3. Ng or any humming

Now based of my analysis of myself and some help from others it is a struggle between SUPPORT AND TWANG. Ususally one of the other is not working well for me. When I do get a nice clean head voice it is often "ugly" and not usable in singing but for me FALSETTO is actually beautiful but it is caused by unsupported tone.

What is the no-bs way to get rid of falsetto and replace it with the strongest head voice possible? It is very fustrating when one day I have a great bright and powerful head voice and another day it sounds like im releasing hot air! My "onsets" up there are also very "breathy" and even with "k" or "g" I do not feel the vocal cords close at all.. even when I don't hear breathiness sometimes I am still using too much air.

Hope some of you guys can help me out here! I HATE FALSETTO but at the same time building a head voice is very important to me so I will work it. The reason why I posted this thread is because having 100 exercises for falsetto is not a good approach for me.... having 3-5 solid exercises throughout the day and an understanding of the voice-building approach and transitioning to songs REALLY helps me.

I'm sure we all know FALSETTO as a primitive mechanism... I just want to advance

This video is a great example of the falsetto I am doing vs head voice... how do I get there without sounding SO Mickey Mousey that it ruins the song!

- JayMC

[Gina Ellen Vocalist]

The exercises you listed will help you get there. The tone is 'ugly' because there is too much twang probably. But is good for building the muscles of twang you need and want for the sound you're looking for. It's not windy and not falsetto, so thats a good step.

Next you just need to back off the twang, keep the support up and narrow the vowel and think of up and back. Your going in the right direction, just keep practicing :D

[D.Starr]

Consistant practice and patience

[ronws]

What Gina and D said.

But first, I had to laugh, using my outside voice. An r&b singer trying to steer clear of falsetto? That would be like a hard rock singer wanting to sing clean.

Wait, that's me, and now I laugh at myself.

There's no magical pill or exercise. Find the ones that give you the sound that you want and practice those.

[Owen Korzec]

Get a skype lesson with Rob Lunte.

You said you were saving up for it. Hopefully you have saved an extra $105 by now? Just take one skype lesson and record it. It's not worth waiting just to have three if you are pressed for cash. One lesson is all you'll need to get a big boost forward in progress. He will convert you into a vocal athlete on the first lesson. That may not make sense now but I think you will know exactly what I mean after that first lesson. The mere attitude, the paradigm shift toward, hey, I really gotta work hard at this with focus and a positive attitude, is going to help your training so much. And that is something you can't pick up from Pillars, you have to have him coaching you to truly get it.

Then save more to get a three lesson package, while you are practicing the hell out of that first lesson. And then repeat the process, let those three lessons stick for a while, after of course practicing the assignments of each one at the time they are assigned. Go back and practice them all more. Four record lessons is plenty to really build a great technical foundation.

Then if you are really serious about this you will invest in the six lesson package. And invest in another six lessons. And again. And realize what I realized...this never ends, there is always room for improvement. It took decades for Rob to become the singer he is today, it will take you much less to get up to his level since he is a great teacher, but it's still going to take years of skype lessons, not months. Again, if you are serious about getting results fast. You are always free to be lazy, "self-study" and just hope the results will come, rather than working for and investing in them. And they will come, but slowly and unsurely. You'll check back in a yaer and ask yourself, "oops, did I really improve?" And then think "if I had taken more skype lessons with Rob (or any great vocal teacher), maybe I would have improved by now"

You see the kind of aggressive, work hard if you want results, train like an athlete, you get what you pay for, put in your 10,000 hours, go big or go home attitude I'm writing this post with? That's the approach Rob will probably rub off on you within one skype lesson. And it will boost your progress in your training so quickly.

Oh and by the way, you are a singer. You should be singing. Every possible form of singing, you should be doing. Live. In the studio. All genres you are interested in. Lead Vocals. Backups. Harmonies. With musicians. With other singers. Solo. With acoustic instrumentation. With electric instrumentation. A Capella. In the shower. In the car. In your practice room. With amplification. Without amplification. With effects. Without effects. In groups. In choirs. Original songs. Covers. In front of large audiences. In front of small audiences. In small rooms. In big rooms. In the morning. In the afternoon. At night. Indoors. Outdoors. Etc.

[VideoHere]

maybe a strategy might be to start by removing the falsetto voice mentally. develop a mindset that falsetto is not to be used. it does not exist for now.

pretend it's not there..that you have only one voice connected voice!

try this for a couple of months...

do all of your exercises in the full voice. do lightly connected exercise days, and days where you sing loudly in full voice from beginning to end with no volume fluctuation.

when you do an exercise loudly, and you are hitting your break, narrow the vowel and maintain support from onset to the very end.

you can also simply run up the scale with "hay" and "may" and experience running into a place where you can't move any higher..feel what that feels like in full voice.

the foundation of a really powerful head voice is a well developed full voice.

[Jens]

Wtf? Getting rid of falsetto... Man your going at it wrong... Just make falsetto strong, look at it that way. Headvoice is not something magical, it's just you being strong

[Adoney]

There's no magical pill or exercise.

Ah, but the necronomicon.....

[Owen Korzec]

maybe a strategy might be to start by removing the falsetto voice mentally. develop a mindset that falsetto is not to be used. it does not exist for now.

pretend it's not there..that you have only one voice connected voice!

try this for a couple of months...

do all of your exercises in the full voice. do lightly connected exercise days, and days where you sing loudly in full voice from beginning to end with no volume fluctuation.

when you do an exercise loudly, and you are hitting your break, narrow the vowel and maintain support from onset to the very end.

you can also simply run up the scale with "hay" and "may" and experience running into a place where you can't move any higher..feel what that feels like in full voice.

the foundation of a really powerful head voice is a well developed full voice.

I don't agree with this...the foundation of a really powerful head voice is a certain kind of falsetto that can bridge into the chest voice if done early at low volumes. Then you strengthen that. Jay knows this. And the strength comes only partly from chest musculature strength. You also need to learn to use adductor muscles to a degree that is harder to activate in head voice than chest voice because the folds are "thinner"

I think the part about removing the falsetto mentally can be easily misinterpreted. I also don't think it's mental, it's entirely a strength issue in my experience. Jay needs to build more strength in his intrinsic larynx muscles. Then he will have the choice to use that strength and achieve head voice or relax it and go back to falsetto.

[ronws]

Ah, but the necronomicon.....

Good point, Adon. I do break my own rules. For I do have the magic. A deal with Satan to have the folds of destiny.

"A long #$%^ time ago in a land called Kickapoo ..."

Owen, if Jay takes your advice (and who's to say that he has not done so, already), when will he have the time to start a new thread or two every day? Yeah, I'm being a bit cheeky. The threads can certainly be inspiring. And they're like potato chips. You can't eat just one.

[Guest]

I'll say it's more a coordination issue. The intrinsic muscles are already resilient.

Rach how do you suppose a male voice with windy falsetto learn to co-ordinate the head voice correctly? The guy in the video I posted does it easily and even talks in it.

[Adoney]

How about just singing more and singing in that uncomfortable place?

[Owen Korzec]

I'll say it's more a coordination issue. The intrinsic muscles are already resilient.

That was not my experience. In the beginning it was physically difficult to produce a connected sound in the head voice, now it comes very easily. It's not a matter of one tweak and it was there, it just took many months of practice.

Whatever it is, Jay isn't going to convert his falsetto into low larynx twanged head voice overnight, or even in weeks. It takes years of consistent practice to really master. I really believe it is a matter of building strength, in some way. Maybe you could call it building stronger coordination.

But saying that it's a "coordination issue" to me gives the singer the impression if they just make some tweak in there approach BAM it will magically appear. It just doesn't work that way.

[Owen Korzec]

Yes, a stronger coordination sounds more likely. People often forget that the main function of the larynx is biological. If the laryngeal muscles are not naturally resilient and fast it could be life threatening. Also histological research has shown that those muscles are indeed resilient and fast.

The question is, does that mean they are naturally as resilient and fast as needed for high performance singing, a non primal activity? I think it's very possible that since there are different sets of adductor muscles, some may be stronger than others, depending on the person.

Whereas there is only one pair of abductor muscles, that must be naturally strong in everyone.

[Owen Korzec]

Yes, because you are using the same muscles. For example a cough requires a very high sub-glottal pressure, a lot more than needed in the heaviest phonation.

The most likely reason why you experienced difficulties in the beginning was because of too much effort for the given task and not too little. It's very natural to recruit more muscles in the beginning until the coordination becomes better. Most instrumentalists knows this.

Ahh I gotcha. I play many instruments so I know exactly what you mean. Muscle independence.

I still think the smaller muscles need to develop (in some way) in order for the large ones to stop helping out. Or maybe the larger muscles strengthen so that "helping out" takes less effort.

[MDEW]

I also believe that there is a coordination to be learned. Almost an like an Accent. the main problem is that it is not a set accent like "sing in Irish" voice or "Sing in Italian" voice. It is some thing that changes per Vowel, intencity, volume, amount of support..........all of the things must come together.

You may have it perfect on one song but not on another because the variables are different. Same with exercizes. You may have it perfect on one vowel but not on another.It takes a while to be familier with all.

[ronws]

Yes, you need to develop muscles coordination. It's more likely a neurological conditioning than pure muscles strength. Like I said they have already examined the composition of the varies laryngeal muscles on a microscopic level (histology). And they are already fast and resilient.

That's almost like saying singer training is more about coordination than it is muscle-building. Where have I heard that before?

:rolleyes:

[VideoHere]

I don't agree with this...the foundation of a really powerful head voice is a certain kind of falsetto that can bridge into the chest voice if done early at low volumes. Then you strengthen that. Jay knows this. And the strength comes only partly from chest musculature strength. You also need to learn to use adductor muscles to a degree that is harder to activate in head voice than chest voice because the folds are "thinner"

I think the part about removing the falsetto mentally can be easily misinterpreted. I also don't think it's mental, it's entirely a strength issue in my experience. Jay needs to build more strength in his intrinsic larynx muscles. Then he will have the choice to use that strength and achieve head voice or relax it and go back to falsetto.

i know you don't owen. but respectfully i am going to say again, it depends on several factors....and you do not have to lighten anything. going light and bridging early is not the only way to strengthen the head voice (musculature).

in fact, going light is more prone to misinterpretation than doing full voice exercises.

as i always say don't knock till you've tried it...lol!!!

if you were in the room with me when frisell had me doing these simple exercises he had me doing you would have died.....lol!!!

[Owen Korzec]

i know you don't owen. but respectfully i am going to say again, it depends on several factors....and you do not have to lighten anything. going light and bridging early is not the only way to strengthen the head voice (musculature).

in fact, going light is more prone to misinterpretation than doing full voice exercises.

as i always say don't knock till you've tried it...lol!!!

if you were in the room with me when frisell had me doing these simple exercises he had me doing you would have died.....lol!!!

Bob, you are welcome to not-lighten all you like and forever be confined to a voice that can only sing loud and with power. I like the versatility to achieve a softer dynamic with a gentler tone, for music that calls for that type of singing. And that just cannot be achieved without bridging early and "lightening".

It's like being a drummer and saying "I don't ever have to play with brushes, I can just play with sticks all the time". Or a guitarist saying "I don't ever have to play acoustic guitar, I can just play distorted electric all the time" Well, you can, and that will maybe work for most music. But if you only ever learn an approach better suited for louder dynamics, you are cutting out a portion of musical opportunities that require a significant change to your instrument in order to get the right sound that's general desired for a softer volume level.

I'm still not entirely clear on what Adon is looking for. I'm thinking maybe he wants a lighter (softer) sound? He has full voice to G5, so if he's not satisfied and wants to get headier, to me that implies he wants to find an approach better suited for lower dynamics, to use every now and then.

And full voice (let's define that as a voice that bridges late) can only go so low in dynamic, especially up high. I mean I guess you can support like hell and get it pretty quiet, but the audience will hear you struggling to keep the volume down. If you just take a lighter approach from the get go, one that uses less vocal fold mass, you have far more freedom and less tension, and if you want, it's optionally, but you can far more easily take away that sometimes undesirable "power" that I know you are so obsessed with, if your foundation is a "lightened" configuration.

[VideoHere]

in the words of led zeppelin's "the crunge"..... "where's that confounded bridge." lol!!!

thanks owen for respecting my opinion....you can sing light......and i'll just stick to life of power.....lol!!!!

all kidding aside, i wish we could say we were saying the same thing, but i don't think we are. we're just at different stages, that's all....

the perception of a bridge to me is one of the biggest obstacles to singing. it's fine in the beginning but then you have to abandon it..just my opinion.

[MDEW]

Head voice strength? Go to Lordadons' thread. Find Jens' and Felipes' video links. go to their youtube pages. Watch the videos. Do as suggested. :)

[ronws]

in the words of led zeppelin's "the crunge"..... "where's that confounded bridge." lol!!!

One of my favorite Led Zep lines, I used it as a sig, for a while.

:)