Growling Questions

[grohm]

Hi Guys

First off, im new into the screaming, growling thing. originally a drummer/guitarist, i decided to record vox for my project since there is just no vocalist around in my area atm.

Well, as a noob, i would consider my style as "growling". I did the batman voice/barking dog noise and went from there. I started about 1 month ago. It sounds pretty good to my ears so far but i have some issues/questions:

- I can not do long growls with this technique for the life of me. Not longer than 3-4 seconds max. I can do 30secs and more with the vocal fry technique but that sounds weak without a mic and without layering the vox and thats not what i want. I want a brutal, low pitched sound without effects and cheating. An rough example of the direction i wanna go to is this (awesome) song:

(Listen to the end with the low long screams)

I realize that everybody has a different voice and i will never sound exactly like this, but its roughly the path i wanna go. I know that breathing is important, I can hold a note for about 30secs without distortion. As soon as i put the false chords to work, it sucks the air out of me though. I can feel the air literally going out of me when holding a hand before my mouth. Without distortion, i can rarely feel any air coming out at all. I am pushing with the diaphragm and it sounds like i want it but just for 3 seconds, which brings problems even with saying more than 2-3 words in one breath. I guess that is not normal?

- My throat feels kinda "roughed up" or sore after 30mins. It doesnt hurt but it feels "done with growling" for the rest of the day and i have a rough feeling in the throat. I am aware that I should only use the false chords and not the vocal chors for these screams. I would say that i use 90% false chords with a little mix in of the throat. I still have to work on the control here obviously but does this sound kinda familiar / like the correct way? Or completely wrong? Can it be that my throat feels sore because i have the rapid airflow described above? I have read that the throat gets dried out quickly with much air passing by. is it a technique issue or is this tecnique just limited? If yes, how do they do the screams in my example? Is it another technique?

Btw, I am not sure if "growling" is the correct name for my technique but its what i think it is. However, I shall stand corrected if you guys say otherwise.

Any tipps are very very welcome and appreciated.

Thx in advance guys.

Cheers,

[grohm]

i hoped secretly i had not to, since it feels absolutely embarassing to me to upload this but i see it will help more than anything, so here you go:

https://www.yousendit.com/download/WFJYa3ZBUzgwMEZsQXNUQw

please note: i am aware it sounds like crap but its the best i could come up with atm

Edit: this is all false chord screams (or what i believe is false chord better said)except for the very last scream at the end which is supposed to be a fry scream.

cheers,

[grohm]

thx for these tipps dude. makes sense to me too. now my question is how to learn the false folds and the grunt techniques. Is there any video on utube that you could recommend?

also, could you plz tell me what techniques are used in these two song-bits:

(whole song is the same technique but what is it?)

(Part at 0:51 especially - cannot make out what technique this is.....Part at 1:05 is the fals folds technique i would assume?

thx,

[eggplantbren]

"

(whole song is the same technique but what is it?)"

Grunt

"

(Part at 0:51 especially - cannot make out what technique this is.....Part at 1:05 is the fals folds technique i would assume?"

That's another grunt at 0:51 and later on it sounds like a mixture of a few things including possibly distortion (false folds thing) with some grunt and rattle maybe.

Yeah, those are the CVT words. Nobody else has such a precise way of answering these questions, as far as I can tell.

[grohm]

Thx Man!

One thing i just do not get is the lenght of either the growls and grunts. I cant go over 3 seconds for the life of me. But like in these examples, they can do it for longer periods of time.

I can hold a clean note for over 15 seconds but as soon as I add the false folds distortion into it, the airflow rapidly increases and so the lenght rapidly decreases aswell. And I do push with the diaphragm. Also, the loudness of the scream (It feels like it comes from the diapragm) doesnt have a major influence on the length. Even if I go below talking voice level, its about the same lenght, maybe a tiny little more. What do you guys think? Is 3 seconds the average limit or is it caused by bad technique? if the latter, what could be done differently?

[Felipe Carvalho]

;)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=csBTs7eX4D4#t=193s

[ronws]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=csBTs7eX4D4#t=193s

That's because she has not been told yet that she cannot do that.

Here's one of a guy that has a great distortion and got rejected because he was not r&b with a "trilly" voice.

[eggplantbren]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=csBTs7eX4D4#t=193s

Awesome.

"Does that hurt your voice?"

"No"

There you go.

[eggplantbren]

Great singer Ron! Of all these singing shows, I think Idol is one of the least accepting of diversity of styles. The Voice is my favourite one, they seem to like interesting and different singers. We get The Voice Australia here.

[grohm]

dont turn my thread into an american idol related thing haha

guys, regarding the lenghts of these screams, what do you think? is my 3 seconds falsefolds scream average or can it be done massively longer which means im probably doin it completely wrong?

[Felipe Carvalho]

grohn Ive linked the little girl so that you could see how it is not something you should be fighting against, she does it easily, the effort that shows both on her voice as in her expression is almost zero, she is simply doing it.

So something must be wrong.

My "old school" thoughts. If you want to do it seriously and last, learn the basics, breathing and support, train to sing clean first because it will take much more work of breathing and then you worry about the FX, and interpretative icings. These things are hardly something "unique" anymore, and done wrong the chances to hurt yourself on the process are big.

OR just dont worry about technique and find your way to produce this "sound" as easily as you can. the little girl was not looking into support and breathing, of that Im almost sure. Play with it, dont try to make it too serious. .

GL.

[Owen Korzec]

I second Felipe. Healthy screaming technique typically starts with healthy singing technique. Ask any great vocal teacher that teaches distortions: Jim Gillette, Rob Lunte, Ken Tamplin, and Melissa Cross just to name a few...they all have you train clean singing first to build the right foundation.

[Enander]

I'm not good at teaching stuff! Hell, I don't even get the CVT terminology, but I'm quite an ok growler, and I know this:

1. Don't rush! Your voice is not used to this; take your time and "feel it", but reading your post I guess you got that covered.

2. When listening to recordings, try to only mimic the "right stuff".

To explain what I mean: the microphone is a growler's best friend (especially when you're "kissing it" to boost the lower frequencies), and in the studio the EQ (and other effects) makes a world of difference. So it's easy to believe that the top tier growlers could tear your chest open without a mic, but that's not the case.

However, you SHOULD try to mimic the pronunciation/enunciation, because that will help you to get a better sound.

3. With that being said, there seems to be a trade-off between good articulation and a good sound/texture. Good is of course subjective, but since you listen to Nile I have a feeling you understand what I'm getting at.

4. While finding your sound, do NOT underestimate the importance of tongue position!

Try to growl/grunt/whatever with your tongue relaxed (just laying there), and then point the tip of the tongue up towards the palate and try it. Notice the difference! Experiment!