FEAR BASED VOCAL PROGRAMS

[Danielformica]

I just wanted to voice an opinion on vocal coaches or programs that install fear into new singers. If you read a post or see a program online or hear about a product that says "my method teaches the only way to" or " if you don't use my techniques you'll fail" or " stop doing this method it's the worst use mine" or any other negative fear based agenda just RUN AWAY!! There are plenty of teachers that will help guide you without fearing you into it.

That is all:)

[jco5055]

I can think of a big, certain program off the top of my head, and I bet you were thinking of it also

Any recent news/announcements that rubbed you the wrong way? :/

[Danielformica]

Actually nope saw some up and coming guys that were using the same technique to fear people into lessons. It wasn't the sls bash

[jco5055]

Actually nope saw some up and coming guys that were using the same technique to fear people into lessons. It wasn't the sls bash

woo, luckily I (and I imagine a lot of guys on this forum) haven't seen these guys, and I plan on not finding out about them! :D

[ronws]

But we still get that, even from teachers of lesser fame.

Advice that we are bound to be ruined and just crappy unless we get a coach. And that there are no spot fixes, that you must start from scratch, as if you never sang before.

That is, while I know who you are talking about, there are others who forecast ruination if you do not specifically train with a coach, in person.

And others who browbeat you because obviously you can afford internet, and a car, and a house, etcetera. Why can't you afford a 100 dollar lesson?

Because I have to pay for that car, that internet, because I owe 3 years back-logged property taxes on the house. I also pay the city service bill. Natural gas bill, electric bill. Home phone, which includes internet. Cell phone bill. Insurance bill for two cars and one house, overinsured because to build the same size house today costs more.

Food on the table. Food for the pets. Vet bills, mostly my dog's vaccinations each year.

Some people don't have these financial responsibilities. And some might be tempted to say, "Well, you spent about 100 on that Zoom H1 you've been talking about. You could have spent that on a voice lesson."

Guilty as charged. Side note, I spent that from pennies saved over a year. I think it has been of value. I use it when I am driving home, singing along with the radio. I can hear my mistakes. I have deleted more than I kept. And I have only shared a few of what I kept.

But others, mostly the professional singing teachers don't resort to such heavy-handed techniques. I think some of the best teachers don't even compare themselves to other singing teachers or systems. They simply present their method and it either works for you, or it doesn't.

Let us not forget the psychology of the student or singer. I have never had lessons, none were ever offered for me while I was growing up, like they were offered for my brother. He had piano lessons, clarinet lessons, I probably showed him a few things on guitar but he has surpassed me long ago.

I was raised to "figure it out for yourself." And that became such a habit that it's hard for me to "submit" to lessons. So, I am doomed to mediocrity, probably.

I am the most mental of all.

Edited to add:

Ironically, I have had actual instructors in martial arts. Some stuff I studied on my own. But actual flesh-and-blood instructors in Kenpo Karate, Kung Fu, Tae Kwon Do, Aiki-jujutsu. As well as some kill-quick from my friend, Lee (RIP), US Navy SEAL, 1964-69, Da Nang, Viet Nam.

But, I think I am a better singer than I am a fighter. Maybe it's the other way around . IDK. :lol:

[MDEW]

When I saw FEAR based vocal programs what I pictured in my head was learning Rock screams by Riding roller coasters or visiting Haunted houses. Or maybe someone in a Hockey mask following you around waving a giant Axe. But I remember seeing advertisements saying similer things that you described.

[eggplantbren]

Haha, yes, some teachers/programs are fond of telling you what not to do. I thought it was funny when my *** teacher told me not to open my mouth horizontally because I would get nodules.

[eggplantbren]

When I saw FEAR based vocal programs what I pictured in my head was learning Rock screams by Riding roller coasters or visiting Haunted houses.

Haha, roller coasters are a great method for learning super high neutral screams!

[Owen Korzec]

I have found the best methods tend to be those that are open to other methods.

There's also fear based vocal pedagogy like egg's comment. Instilling fear in the student of doing anything that could remotely hurt their voice. It's often present in some classical or SLS training. And if there is no science to prove their claims then all they are doing is limiting the potential of their own students.

[ronws]

Haha, roller coasters are a great method for learning super high neutral screams!

Amen, twin brother from down under. Nothing like natural processes to help you along!

[eggplantbren]

Amen, twin brother from down under. Nothing like natural processes to help you along!

Sometimes! I just remembered I lost my voice the last time I went to an amusement park.

[MDEW]

Sorry Daniel :/ It seems that I derailed your thread. :/ I never learned how to scream as a child. I see that as the cause of my not being able to sing loudly in my head voice. My wife keeps telling me the answer is simple, go ride a rollercoaster.

She attributes her ability to squeel ultra high to her screaming on the rollercoasters as a child.

[Felipe Carvalho]

haha Dan, I find all those things quite scary.

Specially the lone guys who say that they "came up" with the absolute best technique of all, do some weird demonstrations and then start linking other top singers and using their results as if they had something to do with it.

Add some cheap home made chroma key on top of it, and it becomes plain creepy. :P

[Jens]

Hahaha felipe, my first ever singing program was from such a guy.

[Sun]

Well, guys I've discovered the secret to mastering vocal technique, wait for it;

Have some good exercises and practise a lot.

Please send me $350 via check or paypal now

[ronws]

Well, guys I've discovered the secret to mastering vocal technique, wait for it;

Have some good exercises and practise a lot.

Please send me $350 via check or paypal now

Buzzkill ......

That's like saying, give it time, do some stuff just about every day, add water, and mix.

Wait, that was the directions to a marinade ....

Never mind.

[eggplantbren]

Well, guys I've discovered the secret to mastering vocal technique, wait for it;

Have some good exercises and practise a lot.

Please send me $350 via check or paypal now

Seriously though, I don't the "magic exercises" approach at all...it's possible to do the SLS long scale for 5 years and go nowhere. Most of my exercises are single notes. Get them right, then put them in the song.

[VideoHere]

these are the phrases i dislike:

i'm going to reveal the secrets

in only "x" weeks or less

singing effortlessly

keys to the higher notes

[MDEW]

:| I like my my idea of an axe wielding madman to teach you how to scream high notes. Fear based. :/

I suppose that could cause unnecessary strain. Nevermind.

[Owen Korzec]

these are the phrases i dislike:

i'm going to reveal the secrets

in only "x" weeks or less

singing effortlessly

keys to the higher notes

absolutely. i'd add:

guaranteed

anything associating singing with "simple"

It's also not only in the words but the actions, some examples of deceiving practices:

Hiring other singers to do the demonstrations of your programs, instead of the main teacher

Name dropping famous clients who were already good before finding the program/teacher

Using video footage of teaching gifted singers to make it look like results are instant

[eggplantbren]

"Using video footage of teaching gifted singers to make it look like results are instant"

Can anyone name a singing product that doesn't do this?

[Owen Korzec]

"Using video footage of teaching gifted singers to make it look like results are instant"

Can anyone name a singing product that doesn't do this?

Damn, come to think of it, not really...

But how they go about it varies. I've seen some very no BS videos where it's an intermediate student making some small progress. That's fine. But then there are others where you know there's something they're not telling you.

[ronws]

"Using video footage of teaching gifted singers to make it look like results are instant"

Can anyone name a singing product that doesn't do this?

That might be hard to find. Most of the students that consent to be filmed are already quite good and the fact they have been able to budget direct lessons with the author shows that they are committed. You just see them getting more excellent.

Maybe that's something one of these coaches could do. Take an absolute newbie and make a video log of his or her progress.

Part of it would be the validity of that program. But, as others have mentioned, how well is the student applying the principles taught to him or her?

And, then, too, who is not going to put their best effort forward? We critique each other and inspire each other to present pro-level recordings and performances. So, if presenting less than ideal performances draws nothing but criticism, why should a teacher, trying to show his brand, do any less?

[Danielformica]

no but i can name teachers and coaches..

[Owen Korzec]

Ron I think the absolute best a teacher could do is show a before and after of a student that started bad and then after exclusively lessons with them, improved to be great in a relatively fast period of time. But then there's still no way to know if that student saw other teachers, had extra time to practice, and probably no way to accurately prove the amount of time that passed between the before and after.

It's hard to prove that you can really teach...