Jump to content

Iris - Goo Goo Dolls cover

Rate this topic


Gneetapp
 Share

Recommended Posts

Hey guys, I finally got the guts to record this song. I tried to do it in one take, but I had a really hard time with the timing of the verse after the 1st chorus, and also the final chorus, after the quiet part, so I did it in 3 pieces. I noticed that I need a lot of work on the chorus, still trying to avoid constriction, but it is sooo hard...

Anyways, I know I can do much better, but I just got tired of waiting, and also I need some tips on how to do the chorus more properly, vocally and on the recording aspects too. I used a large diaphragm mic with phantom power, but with no compressor or effects going in the DAW, so I had to sing the chorus with my head sideways to not overload the mic.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

tension, mostly in the chorus, mostly in the first part of the chorus. You are trying so hard to be perfect. And it is causing pitchiness, here and there. Now and then, in the chorus, by the time you have reached "I just want you to know who I am," you have given up perfection and just let it happen. And that is where you are best. No, for others, I am NOT talking about singing with no tension. I am talking about singing with slightly less binding tension. You have most the song down pretty well and the chorus is your albatross, to borrow from Ernest Hemingway.

That is, you sound a little more relaxed when you let the note spread, rather than trying to hold a laser focus.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yes, there is tension and some notes are off pitch because of it. There may even be a bit of nasal involvement on the high parts. BUT, you sounded consistent all the way through. You did not break or flip into a falsetto sound. You can sing this song and sing it well.

Now that you know that you can sing this song it is time to relax and enjoy singing it. And it will sound ten times better because you relax and enjoy.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Good try. Not bad for a first attempt.

First thing that I notice is your timing needs work. I would recommend figuring out the exact timing of each phrase beforehand. I am pretty certain some of the best singers on this forum, namely Felipe and Rob, do just that. They have the timing planned out precisely and aren't just "feeling it". I am the same way, thanks to Rob's coaching. Now I like all the rhythms to be precise. It sounds more professional. There are a few professional singers such as Bjork and Kate Nash who often seem to ignore the timing and get away with it, but the vast majority of singers are singing in exact rhythm.

As for the chorus, you are not quite getting the A4 right now. The pitch is consistently flat because you are pulling up a weighty tense configuration to its limit. I'd suggest you invest in some training that teaches healthy belting, and then start working on increasing your chest voice range. When you can belt up to Bb4, which you can probably get up to after a few months of training, you will be ready to sing the A4 and sound great on it. It's important to have that little bit of headroom or else you will sound strained. You could even go the extra mile and take the mixed voice or bridge&connect in the head voice approach. But although that's arguably healthier technique and less fatiguing, it takes longer to master than belting, which is a more primitive coordination.

Also on the third line of the chorus you are starting on the high note on the word "when" but you are supposed to do that on the same pitch as the "and I" of the first line. And then go to the high note on "everything". You were adding one more high note than you need. Sing it like the original and make your life easier.

I am going to have to disagree with Ron and MDEW and say relaxing won't cut it. You need to do some technical work on this first. Then you can relax. But in my experience, releasing tension does not fix flat notes, it just makes them more flat. Vocal training, combined with practice, for maybe a few months, is what you need. And then you'll be prepared to do a great cover of this, if you'd like.

Wait a minute, your head was sideways? Like tilted or turned to the side? That could have been the cause of the flat high notes. I'm not kidding. It's very hard to sing with good technique when your head posture is messed up. It would be better to simply take a step back, away from the mic.

I doubt you were overloading the mic itself but had the input level too high. On your interface, lower the input gain. That should solve the problem and get rid of any distortion that was happening when you tried to sing the chorus right into the mic.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

tension, mostly in the chorus, mostly in the first part of the chorus. You are trying so hard to be perfect. And it is causing pitchiness, here and there. Now and then, in the chorus, by the time you have reached "I just want you to know who I am," you have given up perfection and just let it happen. And that is where you are best. No, for others, I am NOT talking about singing with no tension. I am talking about singing with slightly less binding tension. You have most the song down pretty well and the chorus is your albatross, to borrow from Ernest Hemingway.

That is, you sound a little more relaxed when you let the note spread, rather than trying to hold a laser focus.

Thanks Rowns! You are right about the tension. Every time I got the chorus approaching I would tense up a little. Because I tend to shout and pull chest, I also had to turn my head sideways to not overload the mic. I think I'm finally getting what head voice is, but I need a lot of work to do it consistently instead of just trying to shout it. You are right about my albatross, and You bet I gonna work hard to kill that ;)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yes, there is tension and some notes are off pitch because of it. There may even be a bit of nasal involvement on the high parts. BUT, you sounded consistent all the way through. You did not break or flip into a falsetto sound. You can sing this song and sing it well.

Now that you know that you can sing this song it is time to relax and enjoy singing it. And it will sound ten times better because you relax and enjoy.

Thanks MDEW! I didn't catch on the nasality during the chorus until you mentioned. I think it happened because I was trying so hard to reach the high notes with the wrong approach (tension). I will keep on working on this song, and hopefully I will soon post a better version.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

your voice other than in chorus is great! im sure after sometime you will get the right way to sing the chorus, because i cant sing at all the chorus few months ago until i learn certain techniques and freeing all the tension in my singing. good luck in your next attempt! :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Good try. Not bad for a first attempt.

Thanks a lot Owen for such a detailed review!

First thing that I notice is your timing needs work. I would recommend figuring out the exact timing of each phrase beforehand. I am pretty certain some of the best singers on this forum, namely Felipe and Rob, do just that. They have the timing planned out precisely and aren't just "feeling it". I am the same way, thanks to Rob's coaching. Now I like all the rhythms to be precise. It sounds more professional. There are a few professional singers such as Bjork and Kate Nash who often seem to ignore the timing and get away with it, but the vast majority of singers are singing in exact rhythm.

You are totally right about the timing. I don't know what it is with this song that I find it so difficult, but I had a hard time trying to keep up.

As for the chorus, you are not quite getting the A4 right now. The pitch is consistently flat because you are pulling up a weighty tense configuration to its limit. I'd suggest you invest in some training that teaches healthy belting, and then start working on increasing your chest voice range. When you can belt up to Bb4, which you can probably get up to after a few months of training, you will be ready to sing the A4 and sound great on it. It's important to have that little bit of headroom or else you will sound strained. You could even go the extra mile and take the mixed voice or bridge&connect in the head voice approach. But although that's arguably healthier technique and less fatiguing, it takes longer to master than belting, which is a more primitive coordination.

I agree with you about the weighty configuration. I am a "chest-puller/pusher" who just recently discovered this coordination to sing in head voice. The problem is I'm still figuring out and working on how to do it consistently. I started taking singing lessons 2 months ago, but I have been bad on the practicing at home. The only times I get to train are when I'm taking care or trying to lullaby my 10-month-old baby, who just loves Def Leppard, Sweet Child o'mine (Guns), and now Iris.:D

Also on the third line of the chorus you are starting on the high note on the word "when" but you are supposed to do that on the same pitch as the "and I" of the first line. And then go to the high note on "everything". You were adding one more high note than you need. Sing it like the original and make your life easier.

Yeah. I just noticed when I heard it again. I'll work on that too.

I am going to have to disagree with Ron and MDEW and say relaxing won't cut it. You need to do some technical work on this first. Then you can relax. But in my experience, releasing tension does not fix flat notes, it just makes them more flat. Vocal training, combined with practice, for maybe a few months, is what you need. And then you'll be prepared to do a great cover of this, if you'd like.

Wait a minute, your head was sideways? Like tilted or turned to the side? That could have been the cause of the flat high notes. I'm not kidding. It's very hard to sing with good technique when your head posture is messed up. It would be better to simply take a step back, away from the mic.

I definitely sang with some tension, although I don't know if this was the reason I went flat. Also, on the choruses I turned my head sideways. I'll try again with lower gain on the mic, an also with a dynamic mic instead of the large diaphragm condenser.

I will definitely start working harder (or just start working) on my singing, and post an improved version of this beautiful song. Thanks again!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

your voice other than in chorus is great! im sure after sometime you will get the right way to sing the chorus, because i cant sing at all the chorus few months ago until i learn certain techniques and freeing all the tension in my singing. good luck in your next attempt! :)

Thanks a lot for the kind words and encouragement RHan! I will keep on working on it until is better. I will also watch the youtube video you mentioned and try to learn something from it.:)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

And actually, Gneetapp, the point was driven home in Mark Baxter's book, the Singer's Survival Manual. Often a pitchiness is a result of tension or something out of balance.

And a classical author I am reading (formerly having a professional opera career) points out that pitchiness can also be a matter of not having one's hearing tuned correctly.

But, I think, in your case, it was tension. You were excited to do the song and filled with tension.

And when I say relax, I don't mean that just everything is flapping. I mean, relax your emotional tension. You will get this and you will do well. Give yourself some time and work on a few things. Get it down as easily as you can tie your shoes.

Tying shoes obviously requires some muscular and nerve tension. But it doesn't involve being so tense that the body is like it is in a state of rigor mortis. So, easy peasy, lemon-squeezy, sing like you tie your shoes.

:D

Link to comment
Share on other sites

And actually, Gneetapp, the point was driven home in Mark Baxter's book, the Singer's Survival Manual. Often a pitchiness is a result of tension or something out of balance.

And a classical author I am reading (formerly having a professional opera career) points out that pitchiness can also be a matter of not having one's hearing tuned correctly.

But, I think, in your case, it was tension. You were excited to do the song and filled with tension.

And when I say relax, I don't mean that just everything is flapping. I mean, relax your emotional tension. You will get this and you will do well. Give yourself some time and work on a few things. Get it down as easily as you can tie your shoes.

Tying shoes obviously requires some muscular and nerve tension. But it doesn't involve being so tense that the body is like it is in a state of rigor mortis. So, easy peasy, lemon-squeezy, sing like you tie your shoes.

:D

Hi Ronws, I definitely need to relax when singing. My voice teacher tells me every time to do it with less energy, less tension, lower volume, etc. Thanks a lot for the advice.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi Ronws, I definitely need to relax when singing. My voice teacher tells me every time to do it with less energy, less tension, lower volume, etc. Thanks a lot for the advice.

I used to do the same thing, a long time ago. The song would make me excited. I would get loud and boisterous in the chorus and then, never back off. So, I had nowhere to go.

It took a while to learn to dial back when going back to the verses. That is, my dynamics were not nearly dynamic enough.

You're going to be so much better on your next try.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I used to do the same thing, a long time ago. The song would make me excited. I would get loud and boisterous in the chorus and then, never back off. So, I had nowhere to go.

It took a while to learn to dial back when going back to the verses. That is, my dynamics were not nearly dynamic enough.

You're going to be so much better on your next try.

Hi Ronws, I can totally relate to that. In my case I think it has to do with the fact that I could not change to head voice and wanted to push the voice (chest) up to break this barrier, which I never did, of course. I think it might be way harder for a chest puller/pusher/belter, such as myself, to approach singing lighter so I can go through the passaggio than someone who sings in a lighter manner to learn how to increase the energy when singing, or to learn how to belt. I know I have a lot of work to do to decrease tension and constriction by relaxing and keeping a neutral larynx and an open throat. But I'll get there. Most of the people (including yourself) are a great inspiration to guys like me.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi Gneetapp. I really like your tone in the verses. I think everything critique wise has been said above so I won't pick on specifics but if you've got the basic tone that is listenable then all the rest can be worked on.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi Gneetapp. I really like your tone in the verses. I think everything critique wise has been said above so I won't pick on specifics but if you've got the basic tone that is listenable then all the rest can be worked on.

Thanks a lot. I just have to kick my behind to start practicing more and more often, and just keep on working the basic techniques, improve my support, keep an open throat, release the tension, mix voice, focus on pitch and timing, and, of course, not forget the feeling of the song. :D

I'll get there, it is just a matter of time.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just remember, "open throat" is more of a concept than an actual state. The pharynx changes shapes depending on what you are doing.

Feel the song. Note is vowel, vowel is note. Keep the vowels simple. AH, eh, ee, oh, oo.

Relax into the song. I think you may have the same affliction I have. "Red Light Syndrome." You probably get through this song effortlessly while doing laundry, for example. But press "record" on something, and now, all of your "faults" are preserved for all time.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just remember, "open throat" is more of a concept than an actual state. The pharynx changes shapes depending on what you are doing.

Feel the song. Note is vowel, vowel is note. Keep the vowels simple. AH, eh, ee, oh, oo.

Relax into the song. I think you may have the same affliction I have. "Red Light Syndrome." You probably get through this song effortlessly while doing laundry, for example. But press "record" on something, and now, all of your "faults" are preserved for all time.

Hi Rowns, "Red Light Syndrome (RLS)": I like the term. I was actually going to ask if you came up with it or it already existed, but I "googled" and found out. Too bad, you could trademark it and make some extra bucks. ;)

Well, I don't think I have RLS, although I am very self critic (despite having posted my first attempt knowing that it was not ready yet). I think my main problem is tension and the bad habit of pushing the sound getting louder and louder to hear myself and also trying to reach the high notes. I noticed that when I am relaxed and the voice is warmed up I can do so much more. So, I need to do this more often to get the muscle memory of the sensation, and also get used to work with breath support. That would solve 80% of my problems. Then, the range would increase naturally from working out.

Thanks again for the tips.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think my main problem is tension and the bad habit of pushing the sound getting louder and louder to hear myself and also trying to reach the high notes. I noticed that when I am relaxed and the voice is warmed up I can do so much more.

Well done, Grasshopper. The answer lies within.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 Share

×
×
  • Create New...