Daniel's Support Video

[Willise]

Hey there everyone,

My question is regarding that dreaded topic of support. I know there are thousands of posts on the topic, but I discovered your video and it seems to make so much more sense to me. However, I do have to ask a question about it.

You mention that you support feeling is not "like taking a dump", as you put it, which is contrary to a lot of the mainstream instruction of the bearing down pressure when singing. So when you are doing the falsetto to full resonance, are you doing anything different in the support method? Are you still not pushing down and out with the diaphragm? I tried along with you on the video and it really seemed to make a difference, but when I went to head voice, I failed to get the resonance in it.

Having said that, I have been impressed with your videos - I think I will have to book a lesson!!

Thanks!!

[Owen Korzec]

I'm not Daniel but I've personally found quite a lot of singing does not require the taking a dump sensation of support. I can't speak for all of it though there are probably some ways of singing that require it

[D.Starr]

I personally don't need to dump while singing and a lot more of people don't while singing.

I think it's just a sensation that you should feel for not go all out.

Next time you go to the toilet take note what you are doing. Its much more subtle than it sounds. If you defacte and push with your whole might and force you need some help. That is NOT healthy. Heaving is incorrect. Correct for giving birth though.

You should just feel a firmness under the rib cage that is neither added to or taken away. A slight firmness in the abs too. If I push like I'm giving birth I choke.

Seriously think about it.

[Danielformica]

there should still be a firmness in the epigastrium area of the stomach(right in the center below where the ribs meet) and right above your love handles on the sides and back. Practice zzzz and shhh and feel that pressure its should feel similar in singing..

[D.Starr]

there should still be a firmness in the epigastrium area of the stomach(right in the center below where the ribs meet) and right above your love handles on the sides and back. Practice zzzz and shhh and feel that pressure its should feel similar in singing..

Exact sensations I feel.

Just need to learn to engage that sensation and not add to it in order to go higher in the range and supply adequate air to sing and lighten up slightly. Use less weight in a sense but still keep connected with enough chesty resonance.

[eggplantbren]

Just watched the video on support. Dan, you're a fantastic singer!

I like the bit where you stood side on and showed the motions with the laughing, and then with a held out note.

But I didn't like some things about it, about how you don't want the heavier sound. It's up to the individual whether they want the heavier sound. The heavier sound isn't the same thing as support, but it does require more support!

And of course it's true that your highest high notes won't come in that heavy way, but that doesn't mean it's useless or bad.

[Danielformica]

Just watched the video on support. Dan, you're a fantastic singer!

I like the bit where you stood side on and showed the motions with the laughing, and then with a held out note.

But I didn't like some things about it, about how you don't want the heavier sound. It's up to the individual whether they want the heavier sound. The heavier sound isn't the same thing as support, but it does require more support!

And of course it's true that your highest high notes won't come in that heavy way, but that doesn't mean it's useless or bad.

If I said that I didnt mean it in a negative way I meant that I myself try and train lighter only because when i start training to heavy I end up in trouble but that is personal. Once I get that lighter connection i always work up into a heavier sound but not right out of the gate. Maybe i should go back and watch that video. And tell myself I dont know what I'm talking about.:lol:

[Mr Bounce]

Excellent video as always Daniel. Of course, it's always good to hear a singing teacher demonstrate something when they have a good voice... Sadly it's not as common as we'd like.

In my experience support is not at all like taking a dump. It is a dynamic event which can range from very subtle, such as the Steve Perry example, or "quite vigorous" such as mid/upper belting ala Ken Tamplin and his influences.

The trouble is that when you're learning you have to exaggerate things and explore extremes to find the middle ground. Eventually you get to the point where you're supporting and you don't even know it.

[VideoHere]

there are different levels of support depending on what you are singing and how you want to sound...

also, the heavier, larger voices (dan, i know you're gonna tear me up..... i'm ready for ya buddy...lol) might need to engage it more than a more lyric lighter weight voice.....

[ronws]

It's hard for me to differentiate. Many times, I practice scales and exercise ideas when I am "on the throne."

\m/

"I'm on the highway to Hell ...."

[Danielformica]

What is more and how do you gauge that it's more how do you know you are supporting more than someone else. Do you have a support meter nooooooooo! So stop that

[gno]

If I said that I didnt mean it in a negative way I meant that I myself try and train lighter only because when i start training to heavy I end up in trouble but that is personal. Once I get that lighter connection i always work up into a heavier sound but not right out of the gate. Maybe i should go back and watch that video. And tell myself I dont know what I'm talking about.:lol:

I've changed my approach from the Bristow training and it is very much what you are doing in this video. I've trained heavier all my life but it was very difficult for me to do soft ballads in the passagio area without belting it out. You can always add more weight - my heavy voice didn't go away. Daniel - for me, your approach is better. I didn't know if doing the Bristow stuff was good, but you confirmed it.

[VideoHere]

you have to do what's right for your voice...you have to trust your inner sensations....what sound are you going for?

light and right.....that can mean different things and sound like different things.

my "light" might be someone else's "medium"........

and when we say "light" is it always "right?"

i just feel that support means more, does more, and benefits you more than we're giving it credit for.

it's the engine...you can idle it....you can cruise....and you can floor it.

.....but admittedly, it's a very difficult concept to get your arms around.....

i go back to this video starting at 1:31:30...what is this light singing or heavy singing?

the singer is awesome!!! he's a friend of dan's. without solid support, he'd never generate that kind of intensity...

http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/33559765

[ronws]

you have to do what's right for your voice...you have to trust your inner sensations....what sound are you going for?

light and right.....that can mean different things and sound like different things.

my "light" might be someone else's "medium"........

and when we say "light" is it always "right?"

i just feel that support means more, does more, and benefits you more than we're giving it credit for.

it's the engine...you can idle it....you can cruise....and you can floor it.

.....but admittedly, it's a very difficult concept to get your arms around.....

i go back to this video starting at 1:31:30...what is this light singing or heavy singing?

the singer is awesome!!! he's a friend of dan's. without solid support, he'd never generate that kind of intensity...

http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/33559765

Awesome post.

And the singer in that band sounds like RJD but kinda looks like Chris Cornell.

[gno]

you have to do what's right for your voice...you have to trust your inner sensations....what sound are you going for?

light and right.....that can mean different things and sound like different things.

my "light" might be someone else's "medium"........

and when we say "light" is it always "right?"

i just feel that support means more, does more, and benefits you more than we're giving it credit for.

it's the engine...you can idle it....you can cruise....and you can floor it.

.....but admittedly, it's a very difficult concept to get your arms around.....

i go back to this video starting at 1:31:30...what is this light singing or heavy singing?

the singer is awesome!!! he's a friend of dan's. without solid support, he'd never generate that kind of intensity...

http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/33559765

You're right Bob - Support is very important. And the heavier you go, the more support you need. just like what you say about the engine - cruising and flooring it.

The guy in that video does use a lot of support.

[Mr Bounce]

That singer is singing fairly "light' but he has a lot of belty vowels here and there which require a lot of support, even more so than if the whole phrase was sung that heavily. Also he is using many vocal effects, not the least of which was distortion.

I think that "too much support" is an idea for us poor folk who still struggle to consistently have a supported voice day after day, so we force it. You experienced guys can probably get away with a lot more!

[ronws]

I like Daniel's support video because it matches my own experience. I still think breath support is mobile and agile, I just don't think it's a gut wrenching (oh my god I am about to pass out) experience every time.

I hope what doesn't get lost is that he is saying that the support should be guided by the music. That is, don't sing "Open Arms" like a helden tenor.

In fact, I should continue this thought in the "gains" thread.

[VideoHere]

mr. bounce

my argument is support is indespensable and there are various levels of it.

i have found the less you sing with extrinsic muscle tension the better you can apply it's benefits to your voice.

if when you apply support you lock up the throat or squeeze the folds together you're not doing it correctly.

support frees up the voice.......you really cannot over support in and of itself.

[ronws]

mr. bounce

my argument is support is indespensable and there are various levels of it.

i have found the less you sing with extrinsic muscle tension the better you can apply it's benefits to your voice.

if when you apply support you lock up the throat or squeeze the folds together you're not doing it correctly.

support frees up the voice.......you really cannot over support in and of itself.

I agree, with the proviso that, like Daniel's video, it is variable and must fit the line you are singing.

[VideoHere]

great video to watch......

this is a very beneficial video

it's all according to how you want to sound..