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Why are Tenors so lucky ?

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ferg12
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My band decided to cover this Blink 182 song, and I had to sing E4 and F4 thought out the verses and a G4 and F#4 in the chorus 5 min after the song ended I felt exhausted. The other singer in my band is a Tenor and covered "Locked out of heaven" which includes an A4 in the verses and the chorus.:o This dude did not get tired. Days like this makes me wanna be a tenor.

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Haha Sun. Yeah IMO, unless you're talking about operas I don't think of people as being tenors or whatever. I do like to use the term to describe songs. E.g. Song x is okay for me because it is in the baritone range, Song y is hard because it's in the tenor range.

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sun ;)

and even worse, baritones and basses are those guys who cant sing one or another note instead of having a voice timbre that most of the lucky guys would give their right arm for...

:-)

I think I got the worst of both worlds: a tenor timbre AND a crap starting range. ;) Not complaining though, after years of struggles I'm finally at a level I could call intermediate.

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I do think ferg12 has a point. Not that tenors are lucky, but that an untrained tenor more easily would be able to tackle such a song, than a singer whose voice is deeper. He would require more skill to do it, just as tenors require more skill for their low range to sound anything decent.

Although, indeed, vocal fachs aren’t as applicable in contemporary commercial music (CCM) as they are in classical music, simply because they were designed with classical singers in mind, surely there are voice types in CCM, too.

Try to let a singer with a voice as deep as James Earl Jones sing a Michael Jackson song in the same key. And try to let a singer with a voice as light as Justin Timberlake to sing a song by Johnny Cash in the same key.

No matter how hard I’ll train, I won’t be extending my lower range without using vocal fry. Even if I would have the best possible skilled voice.

I had lessons by a certified CVT instructor who is has a very deep voice (just trying to avoid saying he is a bass; I can say that he is a bass as a classical singer, though). He said that, no matter what mode he would use, he just wouldn’t tackle a Stevie Wonder song with the same power and ease as I would.

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Even in the classical words, vocal fachs are more about timbre than about range. Lower voices experience a more dramatic switch in timbre than higher voices when switching to head voice, which is why usually only tenors use head voice when singing forte in classical music. This pretty much limits the lower fach's range to something like G4 in the classical world. But the reason is timbre and sound, not the ability to make the note.

Actually I would think that notes like B5/C5 are easier to make for lower voices in contemporary singing because they can be sung very powerful in M2 register, while tenors often have to use M1 in that area to sound really powerful. However, the desire for a certain sound or sound color can make it infinitely harder to sing a certain note.

For the lower guys the really hard notes are usually around G4-A#4, because this is the area where M1 starts to get inefficient. For tenors it's just a bit higher.

Vocal fachs are basically defined in a chiaroscuro-world. This means that a balanced timbre of bright (chiaro) and dark (scuro) overtones has to be maintained. On high notes above G4 the lower voices get too much chiaro (sharpness, brightness, metal) very fast. On the other hand tenors usually have too much scuro on notes in the 2nd octave (dull, woofy sound). The range where chiaroscuro can be maintained is the classical range of a fach but has very few to do with the technical ability to sing a certain pitch.

What does this mean for the original poster: Issues with breaking on high notes are often caused by "clinging onto the scuro timbre", which means not getting out of chest resonance mode. Tenors can keep a little bit more scuro in their upper range but lower voices have to shed that type of resonance earlier.

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Ehh, speaking from own experience I never had any luck at all despite being a low tenor. Nowadays after having trained for many, many hours I've finally got SOME consistency going on...means I'm most of the time being able to tackle songs with notes up to A4. (also very depending on the vowels ofcourse.)

When I started out, I had LOTS of trouble though...hell, even mid 4th octave notes could be hard for me. I'd say that for me it all comes down to training. Yes, I sometimes have my ''great'' moments where I'm able to sing C5's and higher with quite some power and whatsnot, but those are rare and well, at the moment not notes I could really do something with.

Ofcourse others and more experienced people here will probably be able to enlighten you more, but this was just my experience when it comes down to singing.

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I would not say tenors are lucky. We just have a deal with Satan.

Actually, I liked benny's answer best. On a motorcycle, there is a range of rpm's that is called the "power band." When you rev the motor to that region, that is where your greatest efficiency of power is and where you will do most of the gear shifting, especially in racing. A tenor has a power band located higher. This does not mean that a lower power band guy cannot do an rpm as high as a tenor. It's just not going to be where his most efficient power is.

And voice type, to me, texture in addition to range. I am sure manny will correct me but tessitura is essentially where your voice is strongest and most flexible, what I had also learned to call the artistic range. And it would be most important for someone singing in or being cast in an opera, and not that important in popular music.

So, recently, in the last few months, where I did some songs in the second octave, people cheered, thinking I am suddenly actually a baritone. No, I am still a tenor. Proof that just because you can create a pitch, does not make you the fach most often identified with that part of the range. There are guys who can sing 2 to 3 more steps lower than I can calling themselves tenor. And they may be right. I have any number of people to prove me wrong. How many people? As many forum members who might show up today. :lol:

But a deal with Satan? That's shorter, funnier, brings back memories of Jack Black.

I have been singing longer than Manny has been alive. I've had full volume in my upper range since 1988, most of his life. And yet, I think I have made improvements while I have been in this forum. How long does it take? The rest of your life.

And no, I am not a pro. I am not desirable for others to have singing for them. But as long as I have fun ....

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You're voice is gonna be able to do what it's been taught. Anyone who can sing an easy A4 has before phonated in a good manner whether it was by moaning, being loud and whiny all the time etc. I see A LOT of comedians with large vocal ranges because they do a lot of imitation.

I think people incorrectly associate positive things with the term "tenor" like; large range, clarity, brightness, ease of phonation, loved by everyone, hero etc - And "baritone" makes people think of; dark tone, powerful, low, straining at G4 never successfull in singing or any other aspect of life (haha)

So for this reason I advice anyone doing modern singing to just pick the "fach" you associate the best things with, or hell just make up your own awesome fach. I think I'm gonna do the latter

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I see A LOT of comedians with large vocal ranges because they do a lot of imitation.

And let's have a round of applause for Adam Sandler's "Operaman."

So for this reason I advice anyone doing modern singing to just pick the "fach" you associate the best things with, or hell just make up your own awesome fach. I think I'm gonna do the latter

That's what RJD did. Made his own sound ideal.

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Do female singers get jealous of sopranos?

Excellent point. I think this obssessive worry about range is a "guy" thing. Always got to have a measuring contest.

Witness the fact that we have hardly any female members in the forum and certainl not much involved in these discussions. Then, again, how many of those women are trying to sing out of their range, either too high or too low?

Oops, I think I said that out loud. Let me pre-emptively duck out of the way of flying vegetables ....

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A trained Bariton has more choices for sound color and texture. Tenors may have an easier time navigating the E4 to A4 area but the sound that they get is what they get. Not much room for change.

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A trained Bariton has more choices for sound color and texture. Tenors may have an easier time navigating the E4 to A4 area but the sound that they get is what they get. Not much room for change.

Yeah that sounds right

In my opinion a lot of rock tenors can be extremley annoying to listen to if they sing high bright and clean, it's like the a stereo with the treble at 10 and everything else at 0. Probably a soundcolor choice to an extent but I feel that when slightly deeper/richer voices sing high it sounds more balanced

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Yeah that sounds right

In my opinion a lot of rock tenors can be extremley annoying to listen to if they sing high bright and clean, it's like the a stereo with the treble at 10 and everything else at 0. Probably a soundcolor choice to an extent but I feel that when slightly deeper/richer voices sing high it sounds more balanced

That's a good point, too. I don't see anyone here trying to sound like Brad Delp. But a few have spent time trying to sound like David Coverdale, Ronnie James Dio, Brian Johnson, and assorted other singers who could rasp or grit or distortion or whatever you wish to call it.

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Do female singers get jealous of sopranos?

I'm pretty sure they do actually.

Although it can probably also work in the opposite direction, sopranos being jealous of alto low notes. Particularly in contemporary music. The reverse type of jealousy is more of a classical and choir thing.

Whereas tenors typically aren't jealous of baritone and bass low notes, because they don't have much use, but they do wish they had their deeper richer tone.

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Vocal fachs are basically defined in a chiaroscuro-world. This means that a balanced timbre of bright (chiaro) and dark (scuro) overtones has to be maintained. On high notes above G4 the lower voices get too much chiaro (sharpness, brightness, metal) very fast. On the other hand tenors usually have too much scuro on notes in the 2nd octave (dull, woofy sound). The range where chiaroscuro can be maintained is the classical range of a fach but has very few to do with the technical ability to sing a certain pitch.

What does this mean for the original poster: Issues with breaking on high notes are often caused by "clinging onto the scuro timbre", which means not getting out of chest resonance mode. Tenors can keep a little bit more scuro in their upper range but lower voices have to shed that type of resonance earlier.

Not sure I agree with all of this.

Tenors actually have brighter tone than baritones, throughout their whole range. More chiaro.

Benny you need to let go of this misconception that lower voices have to let go of scuro earlier in order to go higher. I'm a baritone and I actually find it WAY easier to tune F2/H3 on the high head tones than attempt to twang hard and maintain F1/H2, which would sound more chesty and chiaro. I really think you are off the mark and thinking that the darker voice can't make dark tones up high...get that belief out of your head...

I think of chest as the brighter voice and head as the darker. We darken vowels as we go higher. Even though we are shifting to F2 the brighter formant, the actual position of all the formants is lowering, creating the darker scuro sound. That's what covering is. And I personally don't believe in a point where you have to stop covering and are forced to splat. Way up in whistle land, sure, but regarding a bridge around A4, it does not exist in my experience, we don't have to go back, we can just keep darkening, and create a resonance bridge without changing the laryngeal configuration. Of course the larynx has to raise and all that jazz, but the vowel color can continue in the uh spectrum well above high C. If you feel that ae shadings are the only option up there for lower voices it is just a result of not training enough.

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I just sing.

Always thought I was a Baritone but Im starting to doubt myself. My voice tends to lighten up a lot. Just got to get better coordination and strengthen some bits.

I got around G6 the other day on oo and ee.

Take a listen to my voice

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I just sing.

Always thought I was a Baritone but Im starting to doubt myself. My voice tends to lighten up a lot. Just got to get better coordination and strengthen some bits.

I got around G6 the other day on oo and ee.

Take a listen to my voice

Is Smile Like Sunshine your song? It sounds like a Ed Sheeran song. I can't think of the name of it.

You sound like low tenor to me like Trey Songz/ R Kelly.

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Benny you need to let go of this misconception that lower voices have to let go of scuro earlier in order to go higher. I'm a baritone and I actually find it WAY easier to tune F2/H3 on the high head tones than attempt to twang hard and maintain F1/H2, which would sound more chesty and chiaro.

Actually, it would be kind of neat to hear you do something that is baritone, or at least in the lower end of baritone range. I am not a baritone but I managed to do some low stuff.

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How do you have any idea what Trey Songz or R kKelly are?

Because both R Kelly and Trey Songz sound lighter than High Baritones, but darker than Mid-Tenors so they are Low Tenors.

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Nothing they are singing has the demands that properly allow a classification. If it is just about having a certain sound, myself and tons and tons of other people, could be any of the male classifications, although that would not be accurate. Those classifications, especially for the style of music they are singing, is completely useless.

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