"Child in Time" - An Amazing Scream Performance! - Robert Lunte

[Adoney]

I like Ron's response above... not because its more complimentary, but he "gets it"... im in synch with his points... this is art, not an attempt to make a "copy cat" performance.

If you're trying to get all that can be out of a cover, sometimes a little bit of 'copy cat' is required. That is, after all, how humans acquire ALL of their skills and knowledge, starting from the first words.

But I was just offering some review/critique, weather taken or not it doesn't bother me. Keep it up.

[Robert Lunte]

Thanks ElWin... Im perfectly clear that some people might be able to yet... do even better or what ever... but, what else can I do, but give blood next time to beat this... this is a good effort and i don't mind saying so for myself... is it mind blowing? Probably not, but Id give myself at least A- for execution and A+ for balls... Thanks again ElWin...

[Keith]

I think the passion and emotion in your voice erased any tiny little flaws it may have. Nobody is Ian, but Ian lol. And the A5 isn't really necessary. I have heard Ian sing it both ways. And, its a ton better than I could do - which is why I haven't ever tried it yet.

[Robert Lunte]

Thanks Keith... your a straight shooter, I appreciate it. I chose to do this tune because it was hard, that is part of the point of the production.

[MDEW]

Here is a dilemma. When someone is 99.9 percent awesome and you notice something that will put him over the top do you not mention it because of who he is ? Or do you respect him enough to mention this thing?

Being a strait shooter is telling how you feel even if it may be taken the wrong way.

Everything was technically perfect. Voice,pitch,texture. The screams were totally awesome and heartfelt.

On the verses it seemed that your mind was more on technique than on the song. I do not believe in singing a song like the original. Whether the melody is exact or the texture matches the original singer makes no difference.

Make the song your own with your emotional input. The emotion that I felt was of technical proficiency not the emotion of the song.

It may be my imagination But I noticed it and I mentioned it. And I mentioned it out of respect nothing else.

[Robert Lunte]

MDEW, as I already stated, your input was appreciated and I feel your probably hitting at something that is worth considering. I support your post, its fine... Thank You!

[Owen Korzec]

Ya, thanks Keith,... I agree. I think I captured an adequately creepy vibe at the end. You want to know the truth... I imagined I was being burned at the stake. Im not kidding you... that may sound a bit 'sick', but that is the imagery I was using at the end to try to get a creepy, horrifying scream...

That is awesome! I'm going to have to steal that idea.

It's a good cover. I haven't even really heard the original much at all, so for an objective opinion against all the "but...but...but....it doesn't sound like Ian Gillan...but...but...but...you didn't sing the A5 you bastard" banter, it's really good, on it's own.

My only critique would be artistic, it's a little too high larynx for my taste at certain points. But you know, to go into a song thinking, I am going to put my larynx in a position higher than I am used to, and at any moment it could accidentally get a little too quacky, but, I want to express a different sonic color of my voice to my audience, and do something unique artistically here...more than anything, that does take guts.

But criticizing it for not being like the original, forget it. I thought that was an ancient argument.

EDIT: Didn't see Rob's previous post. Point still remains, this is a critique forum...you know, for instance, I don't post my originals for critique here (yet) because I don't want to feel bad about the work I've put in immediately after I've completed the project. I totally 100% understand that feeling. It's like, tell me all you want a few months from now when I'm working on new things, but let me keep my confidence for a while, you know? I thought maybe Rob was more open to immediate feedback as he is posting here. It is the title of this subforum that brings the comments that it does. Rob, just post your stuff in the technique forum...we can chat about what you are doing technically. I think that would be more fun for everybody.

[Robert Lunte]

Thanks Owen, a very cool student of mine. Owen you hit on something... did this sound like my larynx was a bit higher then what you are used to hearing? Less "boom" in my voice? Singing with a brighter color was very intentional on this Owen. The "Rooster" tribute from AIC, was more of a demonstration of dampening and F1/H2 tunings... but "Child in Time" would not sound appropriate in a strong darker harmonic tuning. You want to talk about critiques? Had I sang "Child in Time" with a darker harmonic color, people would not of understood what was going on, they would of just understood, that "It didn't sound like Ian Gillan at all".

The point of singing "Child in Time" with a higher larynx was intentional and precisely because, I wanted to match the higher harmonic color of Gillan's voice. I commend you in your ability to recognize that Owen, good ears and a real smart observation that no one else picked up on. I guess thats one reason your my student and Im proud of ya. It is not easy to sing against your dominant attractor state, in my case, a more dampened, theatery color... but that was the mission I set out for myself.

[Olem]

This is a great post, very interesting to read. First i must say that the music video and the production was excellent. Also the vocals sounded great for the most part.

Ok, as i understood it this was a demonstration of a certain vocal technique. but then i am curious to know, Robert: would this kind of vocal technique and asthetic choice be something you would choose first and foremost if you would make a record and perhaps go on tour? I am asking this because to my ears this performance sounded good, mostly great, but to me it was not totally convincing and know you certainly will think of me being on that burning stake the next time you sing this song

I am no expert of vocal technique i just follow my ears, a funny statement from someone that can´t be on pitch, hahahha. But here is what i think about this:

TO ME, this song is like a crescendo, it builds up slowly. That tiny beautiful falsetto in the beginning of the song in the chorus you skipped and started "screaming" right away, I didn´t like that so much.

There also, around the 2 minute mark the higher notes sounded a little mickey mouse-ish (breathy), the sound colour i didn´t like so much. From the 3 minute mark and onwards i loved the higher notes, when there is more "effort" and distortion/rasp behind. More compression there behind the higher notes? I wouldn´t agree with others that you didn´t put emotion behind, the end is very emotional and i adore it.

But TO ME, all in all an impressive performance, Robert, especially if you did it in one take. Sorry if i am one of those nitpicky guys but my intention is to help. Maybe i am totally wrong about all of this, it is just a subjective feeling, not facts. My honest opinion.

Another thing i would like to add is that if all of you singers really search for honest opinions about your work, don´t ask colleges and friends if you don´t really know that they are truly honest. Some people are just afraid of stepping on the other ones toes and are afraid of hurting the other one if they say they don´t like something you did. A good way to find out what people think about your work is to put it into forums or platforms where people don´t know you, sure some people maybe will be jealous and write negative things about it but the majority is not like that.

Rock on you guys.

[Robert Lunte]

Olem you are dead wrong. The first part of the scream sequence is an open glottal position with a huge amount of respiratory escape. It is falsetto and is not an adducted tone. I find it curious that you can't recognize that, but I really don't care. You are listening for Ian Gillan's interpretation, not mine.

Manolito, are you done now with your notes analysis?

[Owen Korzec]

I always thought the "out of key notes" (technically, they are called "accidentals" and are not always mistakes ) were intentional, just rob wanting to make it sound more creepy/ethnic/tense/progressive/experimental...am I right here, Rob?

But how he is doing that is inconsistent, which is interesting and kinda makes it sound unintentional. I would have picked an exact set of notes and stuck to it every time that 2nd section of the screams came up.

You know what though, as a listener, although I know these accidentals bug others, I could care less. I listen to quite a bit of music that incorporates them so I'm used to it. Have y'all heard of The Mars Volta? That stuff is so packed full of accidentals it's ridiculous, but I think it sounds great. So does Rob's 2nd line of the scream section here.

[Manolito Mystiq]

I always thought the "out of key notes" (technically, they are called "accidentals" and are not always mistakes …

I’d rather call them chromatics. And out of key is not necessarily a mistake, either, even though here they seem to be.

And yes, they do create this ethnic sound, but the inconsistency makes them sound unintentional.

[Robert Lunte]

Totally (Owen)... honestly, that is exactly how I feel about it too... I just couldn't give a damn Manolito if these notes are a half step off a note for a 10th of a second... or to Owen's point, to discover that they are in fact probably spelling out some exotic modal interval, an accidental, a suspension note or a deceptive cadence... When you step back and listen to the performance from a broader perspective, it doesn't matter to me nor to about 99% of anyone that is going to hear this.

[Robert Lunte]

There is nothing here that was unintentional. Im quite in control of what I am doing. Thank you for your contribution.

[Adolph Namlik]

I just couldn't give a damn Manolito >> I would love to hear you one day attempt to sing this.

SAME !!!

And before I AM asked to do a cover of "Child in Time", I'll be the first to admit that I cannot do the entire song !!!

I simply don't have that "range" at my age any longer ..... Or, perhaps it's because of all of the scar tissue from so many cervical (anterior) spinal surgeries rather than age ???

[Owen Korzec]

Actually, I wouldn't doubt Manolito could do a great cover of this, even now. For one thing he has a killer high range. He posted a clip on here of him using a G6 at the end of a rock tune that absolutely floored me and made me rethink the value of whistle voice...also heard one of his covers, forget which one, I think it was the Queensryche one and it sounded great from start to finish.

Sometimes Rob, the people you think on here are "airmchair experts" are actually great singers...watch out lol!

I however will admit, like others, that wouldn't be able to sing this as well as Rob. Even though I can phonate a (very loud and ugly) A5. Does not make a difference. I would probably receive twice as much nitpicking on the overall presentation if I attempted a version.

[abajab]

...this is art, not an attempt to make a "copy cat" performance.

Copycat singing has a way of turning me off. Though much can be learned from it… when you’ve reached the level of singing that Robert Lunte has, copycatting is a step backwards.

I’m sixty years old and having purchased Robert’s singing course I am determined to catch up to this level, but that means that I have to un-learn all the bad, ingrained habits.

I’m determined to catch up with you Robert even if it takes me to the year 2023 when I turn seventy.

[Olem]

Olem you are dead wrong. The first part of the scream sequence is an open glottal position with a huge amount of respiratory escape. It is falsetto and is not an adducted tone. I find it curious that you can't recognize that, but I really don't care. You are listening for Ian Gillan's interpretation, not mine.

Manolito, are you done now with your little notes analysis?

Its a great performance and a great production...

Well, i will not start this debate falsetto vs head voice again, there are so many different opinions about this and it will lead us to nowhere. Maybe i wasn´t clear enough. In the first chorus - the falsetto/head voice part - i feel that you use too much volume and since there is no/ a little adduction it has a tiny bit of mickey mouse tone to it a sound i am very familiar with as i had this sound alot in my early Judas Priest covers. I prefer another type of sound. Also, Gillan uses a tiny falsetto/head voice in the beginning and raises in dynamics and volume as the song moves on. I also prefer this asthetic choice where you start off slowly and put more and more energy and dynamics into the song. That is my preference. And i wasn´t listening to Gillan´s interpretation i was listening to yours, and yours is a damn good interpretation. I just didn´t like one part of it.

And i will sing this song soon, i love this song, my favourite Deep Purple song along with "Perfect Strangers".

[Robert Lunte]

Olem, thanks for your feedback... I refer you to the "Child in Time" challenge I posted... on another post... step up, that will go a long way with me to see you actually do it... a great way to earn your "stripes" with me... I understand your feedback... It never occurred to me to sing the first phrase in a windy "Ooo" vowel like Gillan did... its not what I was feeling...

[Owen Korzec]

Rob, although I can resonate with Olem's points about the falsetto, I don't agree with his critique on the lack of dynamic at all. I really think you had plenty of dynamic increase in the scream portion, no doubt about it. The falsetto to overlay distortion to overlay distortion at a higher pitch, that's plenty of crescendo IMO, and a great creative way to do it. I almost prefer it to what Ian did because it's a more creative approach. The open vowel falsetto is less of an everyday sound, then you start at the same note with a beefier laryngeal configuration into this modal/ethnic thing, and then finally you overdrive the mic with that whistley overtone in your E5's...dude, it's totally badass. Just to throw in an opinion from someone who hasn't heard the original 5,000 times...

And I warned you, Manolito is not an amateur (although his avatar may suggest otherwise )...I'd invite him to do his version of Child in Time as I'm almost certain he could do it very well too. He has already led by example previously in this critique section though, I've heard his work, it's great.

I am considering attempting a version of CIT. I already post enough mediocre stuff on this forum, but it really does make for very helpful critique, when you put yourself out there doing something you're struggling with and be vulnerable and ask for help, it is a good setup for receiving genuine constructive feedback in return, rather than having people nitpick something you're already satisfied with.

[Olem]

Rob, although I can resonate with Olem's points about the falsetto, I don't agree with his critique on the lack of dynamic at all. I really think you had plenty of dynamic increase in the scream portion, no doubt about it. The falsetto to overlay distortion to overlay distortion at a higher pitch, that's plenty of crescendo IMO, and a great creative way to do it. I almost prefer it to what Ian did because it's a more creative approach. The open vowel falsetto is less of an everyday sound, then you start at the same note with a beefier laryngeal configuration into this modal/ethnic thing, and then finally you overdrive the mic with that whistley overtone in your E5's...dude, it's totally badass. Just to throw in an opinion from someone who hasn't heard the original 5,000 times...

And I warned you, Manolito is not an amateur (although his avatar may suggest otherwise )...I'd invite him to do his version of Child in Time as I'm almost certain he could do it very well too. He has already led by example previously in this critique section though, I've heard his work, it's great.

I totally agree, Owen, there is a crescendo no doubt about it and there are dynamics of course in Roberts interpretation. I just think that it could have started off a little lighter. From Low to Medium to High sort of. In Rob´s interpretation i feel it starts off from Medium and then goes to High.

[Robert Lunte]

I totally agree, Owen, there is a crescendo no doubt about it and there are dynamics of course in Roberts interpretation. I just think that it could have started off a little lighter. From Low to Medium to High sort of. In Rob´s interpretation i feel it starts off from Medium and then goes to High.

Yes, I agree, it does... my own teachers pointed out the same thing... oh well, like I said, I guess Ill "try more harder" next time! :D

[Manolito Mystiq]

Manolito, you have lots of credentials... Say hi to Alberto for me, a good friend of mine... Love Amsterdam!!! And I hope to meet you one day personally... that would be very cool... I appreciate your effort and energy in detailing all that and respect your effort on correcting me on your background. The truth is, now that I know you do have credentials, it is a lot easier for me to feel comfortable with your feedback...

Where are you right now? Are you still in Amsterdam? Who are you training with? BTW, Pillars 2.0 is totally different then 3.0... I hope I can share with you the updates and improvements one day. Do you have a web link? I would like to learn more about you... my apologies.

Lots of credentials doesn’t make a good singer. Actually I seem to be the opposite of how you handled critique here. I get lots of compliments for what I can do around here, what I am capable of doing, my timbre, etc., yet I don’t seem to acknowledge that, feeling I’m still so far from really being a singer. Even with all the credentials of IPA, General American and Recieved Pronunciation, I really don’t like my—to my ears—overly present accent.

I’m a leggiero tenor, which can have a lot to do with it. I mean, it’s pretty cool having this smooth and easy high voice, but I feel at times I sound like a 13-year old.

It can be done, I mean, James Labrie with his pretty light lyric tenor voice managed to cope with the heaviest album of DT: Train of Thought—even though at times I felt it sounded quite funny: this super light lyric voice with blazing heavy, 7-string guitars.

Currently, I have lessons with this amazing (and again, I must say, beautiful) classical teacher Florien Hilgenkamp, superb Dave Brooks ((former?) Singing Succes), and Mony Wouters for the EVT Certificate Course.

To some extent, I now understand why you’d like someone to have credentials, but I still kindly ask you to overall (also to the ‘non’-credentialized) be more…appreciative and receptive.

[Robert Lunte]

I have had about three Leggario Tenors in my studio... really nice, high voices, your blessed in many regards... but ya, it can be a bit squeaky sometimes... my advise would be to really get good at dampening... increase the size of your vocal tract, tune to F1/H2 as much as possible... if you can get that going, your ok... Im a big clunky lyric baritone, so anything above F4 is a frick'n feat of "hail mary's" and nothing but sweat equity... I have worked hard to build the ability to sing high... and can do it now, but it has taken a lifetime to figure it out with the mass of my vocal folds...

I hope you and I can partner one day in The Netherlands on a master class or something... you seem cool. ;)

[Manolito Mystiq]

I remember one of my first lessons with Liesbeth Korpershoek, a EVT instructor and vocal pedagogue, back in 2006. I had to make this bite configuration and ‘ay’ all through a note at a time, and did so up to F#5. Obviously, I was already mixing, but then I knew what I could do to reach the highs without much effort (but with presence).

M1, I can do quite well up to B4. C5 up to E5 (as I did in that one Queensrÿche cover and Maiden’s Children of the Damned) seems definitely going somewhere else (but who doesn’t?).