"Child in Time" - An Amazing Scream Performance! - Robert Lunte

[Robert Lunte]

This thread blows my mind. It has been taken to a whole new level of ridiculous. Please everyone, record your version so we can rip each others versions apart, instead of just supplying encouragement and praise. And no, I don't think that if you hear something negative you should keep it to yourself.. I mean If you are going to go through the time and trouble to listen to the whole song and make a small (in this case microscopic) list of what you dislike, supplement that list with stuff ya do like, and then move on with your lives! It is important for singers (and coaches) to hear about the stuff they did well. We all know this. Supplying only negative feedback really hinders progress.

Thank you Keith! I guess that is another point that leads me to get all defensive sometimes... inside I'm saying, "... ok, well... what do you LIKE about it"? I think if your going to give a critique to anyone, you point out what needs to be pointed out and... if you are courteous and thoughtful, you also point out some things that you DO like... I know that some people did that... but others did not and thats when it gets to be a bit... lame... especially when its coming from people that have not stepped up and establish more credibility. Negative critiques, with little or no credibility are just weak.

[Adolph Namlik]

Long post, Phil, so I won't quote it....

But I WILL say, very well said !

Yes, VERY WELL SAID, my Friend :cool:

[Enander]

This topic was the first one I've read that contained drama (that I didn't instigate haha) on this forum.

Interesting in many ways, but mostly because it shows just how different people are.

I'm almost certain that some people wouldn't bother to type a comment if it weren't for Robert's status on this forum, and while we're on the subject "status", some of us are expected to put out some extraordinary stuff, which in turn probably makes the listener more "nitpicky". While, on the flipside, people with status can feel like they don't deserve any "bashing" from "underlings".

(I'm not insinuating anything about Robert's version of Child in time)

I can understand their pov and I can understand Robert's pov (even though I think he went bit overboard at one point. He seems to agree though, since he edited or deleted some posts. Everyone can have bad day!), but what I really don't like is that there seems to be an attitude that came along with "make your own version then!".

While there is some truth to the sentiment itself, they way it is/was seemed to being said just feels wrong. Is that what this forum is about? If you can't sing it yourself you'd better keep silent; your opinion is worth nothing?

Granted that knowledge in the field you're assessing is a necessity sometimes, but I can't see how that's relevant here.

Also, how many would actually have the guts to sing it themselves believing that they're probably in for a barrage of harsh critique as they fall prey to petty revenge?

To be frank, that was one of the reasons I sang it myself (but mostly because I like a challenge or two ). Trying to dismiss someone's opinion in such a manner is not something I approve of, and I'll gladly lead the way to prove it's an ineffective way to deal with criticism.

I'm not going to lie, I expected to be slaughtered just to assert Robert's dominance (not necessarily by Robert himself, but others that look up to him), but I'm glad I was wrong!

Well, at least nothing was written... I can only imagine what some people thought when/if they heard my hasty, unprofessional rendition. Haha!

NOW, I understand that there could be an esoteric aspect to Robert's singing that not everyone here can perceive, which can be frustrating to him and his "kin", and (however I may feel about it) I can understand that there ARE some "unwritten" barriers between some members here, which make opinions unwarranted.

It's just sad that it just that; unwritten.

I believe Robert himself came up with the best solution though: not posting it under "Review & Critique My Singing." Some part of me understands why it's still here (the discussion that followed is probably good to let loose), but another part feels this should've been deleted, and reposted in the proper section, the same day it spurred drama.

I apologise if I may have insulted anyone. It was not my intention. It's just that I didn't like what I saw. I believe that everyone can and should enjoy and review art in all it's form, and felt I had to speak my mind!

[Chavie]

Very good cover here Rob, also props on the mix and video production.

Id rather hear a powerful E5 ... then a weak falsetto A5 anyday....

What software did you use for the video?

I'd love to do videos, but at this time i'm unsure how to go about recording and mixing them.

i give major props to anyone who can.

[Robert Lunte]

This topic was the first one I've read that contained drama (that I didn't instigate haha) on this forum.

Interesting in many ways, but mostly because it shows just how different people are.

I'm almost certain that some people wouldn't bother to type a comment if it weren't for Robert's status on this forum, and while we're on the subject "status", some of us are expected to put out some extraordinary stuff, which in turn probably makes the listener more "nitpicky". While, on the flipside, people with status can feel like they don't deserve any "bashing" from "underlings".

(I'm not insinuating anything about Robert's version of Child in time)

I can understand their pov and I can understand Robert's pov (even though I think he went bit overboard at one point. He seems to agree though, since he edited or deleted some posts. Everyone can have bad day!), but what I really don't like is that there seems to be an attitude that came along with "make your own version then!".

While there is some truth to the sentiment itself, they way it is/was seemed to being said just feels wrong. Is that what this forum is about? If you can't sing it yourself you'd better keep silent; your opinion is worth nothing?

Granted that knowledge in the field you're assessing is a necessity sometimes, but I can't see how that's relevant here.

Also, how many would actually have the guts to sing it themselves believing that they're probably in for a barrage of harsh critique as they fall prey to petty revenge?

To be frank, that was one of the reasons I sang it myself (but mostly because I like a challenge or two ). Trying to dismiss someone's opinion in such a manner is not something I approve of, and I'll gladly lead the way to prove it's an ineffective way to deal with criticism.

I'm not going to lie, I expected to be slaughtered just to assert Robert's dominance (not necessarily by Robert himself, but others that look up to him), but I'm glad I was wrong!

Well, at least nothing was written... I can only imagine what some people thought when/if they heard my hasty, unprofessional rendition. Haha!

NOW, I understand that there could be an esoteric aspect to Robert's singing that not everyone here can perceive, which can be frustrating to him and his "kin", and (however I may feel about it) I can understand that there ARE some "unwritten" barriers between some members here, which make opinions unwarranted.

It's just sad that it just that; unwritten.

I believe Robert himself came up with the best solution though: not posting it under "Review & Critique My Singing." Some part of me understands why it's still here (the discussion that followed is probably good to let loose), but another part feels this should've been deleted, and reposted in the proper section, the same day it spurred drama.

I apologise if I may have insulted anyone. It was not my intention. It's just that I didn't like what I saw. I believe that everyone can and should enjoy and review art in all it's form, and felt I had to speak my mind!

Cool Enander, I actually like your post and the points your making. It strikes me as totally non-biased and objective and fair, even your concerns about my communications and fumbling about... seem fair to me.

Unfortunately, it is a real grey area for me... If we just keep it to feedback that is marginal or critical... sometimes it doesn't bother me. Like the comments about the micro seconds of this note or that being slightly off the key of Am or what ever... I really don't care, it seems petty and nit picky to me... but I appreciate Manny's analysis, it is interesting... but I think what we all learned from that was, ... it didn't mean that the production and performance was bad? It turned into a discussion about accidentals, suspension notes, deceptive cadences, etc.. which I thought was really interesting and educational for people.

I live in a world of doers and people that get shit done and are accountable for themselves. My disposition has little tolerance for laziness, whiners, blamers, people that are not accountable and those that would judge and critique me harshly, with absolutely no game of their own. My biggest peeve is "Monday Morning" quarter backs, those that would judge me harshly, but have no experience or credibility. Some posts are from people like that, while of course, others are not, but its hard for me to know who is who.

I don't know if my status influences people's decision to post or not... I'm inclined to say no. Exactly my point above, I don't get the feeling that anyone that didn't like it was holding back... and I don't think that those that do like it are kissing ass... I think its really sincere. I believe members feel pretty free and clear to post what they want here, even for me.

I get your point on the "challenge" post... but I believe it is the right thing to on many levels. It neutralizes those that just want to roast me and at the same time, it includes and invites everyone else to participate. As an educator, its excellent... it essentially is a homework assignment for all of you and this point is not lost on me. I am perfectly aware that my challenge post is a learning experience for people and at the end of the day, that is what I do for a living.

I work my balls off to keep it going for you guys... Then I go out and post a production for everyone to enjoy and discuss... having done this several times, I have to step back and ask myself... why bother? Why am I doing this? I don't want everything to be favorable, or agree with me... I just want people to treat me with some level of regard on this forum. Yes, I do... I shamelessly admit it. I pay the bills here and do all the work, you are all guests in my home. A "home" that has taken a lot of energy in the past five years to maintain. When your in my home, don't shit on the living my room floor. Have a little respect.

My job is not to be the singer for Deep Purple, its not to be the world's greatest singer. My job is not to be a diplomat or to be anyone's best friend.... I provided a forum for everyone to come together and then I produced cool content that gave everyone something to talk about... I educated, I entertained, I probably inspired a few people too, ... I did my job and it was a job well done.

[Enander]

Cool Enander, I actually like your post and the points your making. It strikes me as totally non-biased and objective and fair, even your concerns about my communications and fumbling about... seem fair to me.

Unfortunately, it is a real grey area for me... If we just keep it to feedback that is marginal or critical... sometimes it doesn't bother me. Like the comments about the micro seconds of this note or that being slightly off the key of Am or what ever... I really don't care, it seems petty and nit picky to me... but I appreciate Manny's analysis, it is interesting... but I think what we all learned from that was, ... it didn't mean that the production and performance was bad? It turned into a discussion about accidentals, suspension notes, deceptive cadences, etc.. which I thought was really interesting and educational for people.

What makes me loose my poise and then sometimes embarrass myself in a post is when someone is just rude, which happened a few times Chris and Lord Adon... I don't need that and don't have to put up with it... or composes a 10 paragraph roasting that goes on and on and on... when clearly, the production is not a piece of shit. I mean seriously, the thing is pretty good... it doesn't deserve a two page roasting by some 15 year old kid with no life experience or little to no singing experience. I don't want to sound arrogant, but I know that a lot of these posters are young people with big opinions and a LOT of life to live, and its for those same people, that I produce this content and hope to serve and inspire. So when I get a belabored roasting from people i don't know anything about, that have no experience and on and on... it just isn't appealing.

I don't know if my status influences people's decision to post or not... I'm inclined to say no. Exactly my point above, I don't get the feeling that anyone that didn't like it was holding back... and I don't think that those that do like it are kissing ass... I think its really sincere. I believe members feel pretty free and clear to post what they want here, even for me.

I get your point on the "challenge" post... but I believe it is the right thing to on many levels. It neutralizes those that just want to roast me and at the same time, it includes and invites everyone else to participate. As an educator, its excellent... it essentially is a homework assignment for all of you and this point is not lost on me. I am perfectly aware that my challenge post is a learning experience for people and at the end of the day, that is what I do for a living... I am an educator and sometimes inspiration for students of singing... I think I did my job with this post... Im not a diplomat, I'm not anyones best friend... I am an educator... so, if you don't like the production and performance, then give me some credit for creating a forum that brings people together and content that brings people together and stimulates discussion for an educational experience... and then I ask, on that merit alone, that I am treated with some level of respect, ALWAYS. I'm paying the bills here, literally... some of you that don't suffer from a case of xbox generation entitlement, get that.

My job is not to be the singer for Deep Purple, its not to be the world's greatest singer. My job is not to be a diplomat or to be anyone's best friend. My job isn't even to be the most polite person in the room... as far as this forum is concerned and this tribute tune, my job is to be an educator and inspiration for all of you... or at least some of you... I did my job and it was a job well done.

Well, I wasn't out to "get" anyone, just voicing my concerns!

I can see where you're coming from, and I can also understand why you "launched" the challenge.

However, it felt to me like it was some sort of retort/a mean to expose someone's lack of merit. And if I felt that way, what's to say no one else did it as well?

My point is, if it becomes praxis to intimidate people into proving their merit, to justify critique, it will probably be very quiet around here.

I truly believe that every bit of critique can end up being something good.

You said it yourself; Manny's petty and nitpicky comment led to an interesting and educational discussion.

Now, you probably feel like you got the short end of the stick, and I'm not blaming you. I too feel like you where receiving way too harsh critique at times, but whatever you may say, I still believe that your position here comes with a lion's share of authority and status. For good and for worse though, I'm afraid...

You said your job is to be an inspiration. I admire that and understand that you mean it within the frames of singing, which worked on me (I sang it didn't I? Haha!), but as the founder of this forum you could be an inspiration to others how to act as well.

I'm obviously not saying this to lecture you, but because one of the reasons I like this place is because everyone gets to have their say. I'd hate to see it change, and therefore nips this in the bud.

Of course, I might be wrong; perhaps there's no malicious intent behind the challenge at all, but, as I said, if I felt that way, what's to say no one else did it as well?

Only by voicing my concern, can we sort it out!

[Robert Lunte]

I get your underlying point... included in that, I find it offensive that you imply that the challenge I set up was to "intimidate people into proving their merit". It disgusts me.

What is there to "sort out"? Frankly, there was no issue today, this discussion was quiet today? Any 'noise' you are refer to was very brief moments that occurred about two weeks ago, so I'm a bit amiss about your postings today?

Do you feel you got to say everything you wanted to say, or do you need to continue? Feel free to continue on if it pleases you... I thank you for your very thoughtful input.

Who's next? Anyone else want to jump in and enjoy the freedom of this forum?

[Keith]

I like eggs. I eat the scrambled with a dash of Red Hot. (Franks Red Hot of course)

[ronws]

I get the point. One can make a critique without having to do a cover of the song to "back up their points of critique."

Also, I agree that many a famous singer that is admired has faults that no one cares to admit or ends up defending. Like the fact that Steve Perry was nasal. Remember that? And a number of people came out to defend that and say it was about feeling rather than technical accuracy. So, it's okay for Steve Perry to be nasal and even a bit flat because he was working hard and is, of course, Saint Perry. But if Robert gets a note that is not liked, then it is worthy of critique?

What I am saying is yes, Robert could be off on a pitch for a moment. And so could Steve Perry. But just about everyone came to the defense of Steve Perry. Is that because Steve Perry is sancrosanct? Or is it because people did not like justinothersinger and decided that whatever he had to say was circumspect?

My spidey-sense lets me know that the deletion of Justin's posts and he change of status to that of guest was of his own choosing and not the decision of PTB. Mainly because he was not trying to raise a stink but was speaking his own mind, which is not always welcome.

Forum politics is something to be considered. It is not always just "about the singing." Which is why I really try to keep a low profile, believe it or not. I was almost banned because I stink at forum politics. Good thing I am a quick learner, at times.

As for the challenge thread in another section of the forum - do it like Lunte. Only you, whoever you are, thinks it has to be done like Ian Gillan in his prime in the 70's. And that is mental. I bet Ian, himself, if he were here, would tell you to do it like yourself, if you've got the huevos. (Though I don't know if he speaks spanish.

So far, no one has answered the challenge with their own sound file. And I predict that no one will. Pity, because there could be some really neat singing going on.

My favorite oxymoron - shut up and sing.

But I do agree, it should be okay to critique a song, even if you don't plan on singing it.

However, it would be nice to differentiate between a technical critique and one that is aesthetic. For example, Pat Boone did a big band version of "Panama." I liked it but VH purist might not have liked it. That is aesthetic.

[Robert Lunte]

Critique, critique, rip, rip, praise, praise, pontificate... sound real smart ... I really don't care... have fun guys... do your thing... hope to see you on the Challenge page. First guy that steps up and lays it down will be respected by all.

[derekreno]

The never ending thread...

[Robert Lunte]

The never ending thread...

http://www.terrariaonline.com/attachments/falcor-jpg.29444/

Good.

[Robert Lunte]

Enander, this is a big blooming community, it has been for 5 years and will continue to be.

I heard your CIT, I thought it was cool.

For your part, I think you are being a bit too sensitive... relax.

Are we done now? I get it, Im not a perfect angel... Enander... move on bud... Let's have the fun you are advocating...

[Enander]

Enander, this is a big blooming community, it has been for 5 years and will continue to be.

I heard your CIT, I thought it was cool.

For your part, I think you are being a bit too sensitive... relax.

Are we done now? I get it, Im not a perfect angel... Enander... move on bud... Let's have the fun you are advocating...

Yeah, and I want it to stay that way, that's all what this is boiling down to!

You're dead wrong! Haha! My skin is as thick as leather. Otherwise I would have been typing much worse things than I did... or even worse, stay silent.

Either way, yes, we are done!

And you shouldn't feel accused; no one is a perfect angel.

[MDEW]

Written word is a poor means of communication, especially across differing languages and cultures. To easy to misenterpet others intentions.

We are all here to either learn or help others learn.

I see the Challenge as an opertunity to test myself not to meet anyone elses standards but to improve my own.

My failure or success will either give others the opertunity to learn or to help. Either way Mission completed.

This is a great forum and I am honored to be a part of it. And I try to respect the experts as well as the amateurs. We are all still in the process of learning new things and new modes of expression.

[Adolph Namlik]

Excellent post, MDEW...

I believe "Eloquent" is a better way to describe it !!! :cool:

[ronws]

Yo hablo no espanol, yo habla no englis, yo habla nada ....

Just don't call me late for dinner.

[Robert Lunte]

Yeah, and I want it to stay that way, that's all what this is boiling down to!

You're dead wrong! Haha! My skin is as thick as leather. Otherwise I would have been typing much worse things than I did... or even worse, stay silent.

Either way, yes, we are done!

And you shouldn't feel accused; no one is a perfect angel.

Especially me! I will say this... good point Ron. Those of you that might think Im a raging ass, Im not. Not even close... but I am very challenged in the written medium. I don't do well expressing myself in writing in a free form way.

[ronws]

Maybe for some people, this song takes them out of their "comfort zone." And so, they won't do it. It's easy to pick on someone for not doing it just like the original.

I have done a number of covers, most of them nothing like the original. And what separates me and maybe earns me the label of "lazy" is that I don't care if I don't sound like the original. Which I realize sets me apart from a lot of people.

For example, the covers I do on guitar, I am doing on one guitar when the original might have been a fully arranged piece for a band or orchestra from 5 instruments to 20. And I am trying to do it on one guitar. And I sing and play guitar at the same time, so, of course, I re-arrange the vocal part to fit into that action.

So, let me bring it up again. In a different slant. Why is it that no one gives Ronnie James Dio and Yngwie Malmsteen a hard time for doing "Dream On" in a different arrangement than the the original? Even the melody line is altered. RJD DOES NOT DO the Ab5 in the original. Artistic choice. Maybe RJD could not do a note that high, at least on that song. So, he didn't. He stayed in the strong part of his voice and made a strong performance. So strong, that some recent covers of that song follow his line, rather than the original.

And so, maybe people think that the challenge thread for this song is so that one can pick them apart. I don't think that would be the case. But I also believe in backing up what someone says. And it's funny. In the last challenge thread, I was not one of the detractors of your performance. I like the song, I liked your performance of the song. I did the song because I felt like it, for fun. Which, I think, came through.

But I can see that others are seeing it as a means of defending your performance and don't want to engage, because of that. That's a self-imposed limit, as far as I can see.

Just do the song, however you can do it. Still ain't no one got the moxie to try a baritone or basso version of this, which I think would be way cool.

No, every one has their attention fixed upon the A5. Yeah, I did the A5. Who cares? If another person's voice doesn't do the A5, who cares? Do it however your voice does it.

The chorus is not even lyrics but the oo sound in falsetto, if you listen to Ian. Then he applies a little more resonance and pressure for the higher parts.

Anyway, I look forward to hearing others do the song. Let's hear someone else do the C# just for kicks.

Or am I going to have to put my "Hurt" on it?

:lol:

[jonathangraham]

Here is my submission. I welcome all comments good and bad.

Thanks.

[ronws]

That was awesome, Jon. And I am not sure how you did it but the sound track sounds like it has the 70's FM radio sound, which is how I heard it the first time, a lifetime ago. Brings back memories.

Good stuff, ain't got nuthin' more to say.

There is also a challenge thread in the Coaching section but I think it will get exposure in either place.

[Robert Lunte]

Nice work Jonathan... I think you did a great job... Is the A5 auto-tuned? It sounds like auto tuning to me? Regardless, I think this sounds cool, great job! I buy you a beer!

Please post this on the challenge discussion as well... so they are all on the same place...

Whos next? Jens?!

[jonathangraham]

Thanks Ron, i'd love to say that I meant to sound like that but I think the degradation to the sound is due to me having Facebook open at the same time as exporting LOL!!

Theres another thread?:| i'll check it out.

Thanks Robert i'm glad you liked. no, no auto tuning ever from me. it's for wimps Although it takes everything i've got to get up there (above G5 really) at this stage so its not a very open sound but maybe one day.

[ronws]

.

Who's next? Jens?!

I've been waiting on that for a long time. And, by that, I mean, a long time.

Or a version of "I Believe in a Thing Called Love" that he said he won a karaoke night with, even though, by his own admission, he was already a bit toasted.

"Swing batter, batter, batter .....

Getcha hot dogs, heah ...!"

[ronws]

Thanks Robert i'm glad you liked. no, no auto tuning ever from me. it's for wimps

I didn't think it was autotuned. Then again, I am not an expert and maybe my ears are bad.

And yes, it had that slightly tinny quality of FM radio coming through the speakers of a 69' Ford Galaxy 500. (My father's car, from some early memories.)