Robert Lunte & Kevin Richards

[zuzostar]

I am looking into taking lessons with Robert Lunte or Kevin Richards in order to bring more chest resonance into my head voice.

Has anyone here taken lessons with either that can tell me of their experience?

Thanks!

[gilad]

Hello Zuzostar, First off, I would like to welcome you to the best forum on the planet when it comes to singers.

Now to your question. I can only talk about Robert Lunte as I have never taken any lessons from Kevin Richards.

When it comes to Robert Lunte, some of his exercises really do build a thicker voice, and more chest resonance. Using Lunte's 4 pillars program and specifically the bridge and connect exercises, I managed to increase my range by 1.5 Semi tones. What I will say is you must, and I can't emphasize it enough, PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE as its muscles that need to be reconditioned. Lunte's calls his students "Vocal Athletes" because it is a work out to do these exercises daily.

These are my two cents.

I wish you the best of luck and once again welcome !!:cool:

[Owen Korzec]

I've been a student of Robert Lunte for over a year, he is the best vocal teacher I've had and will definitely help you accomplish what you are looking for. He has helped me unlock several new areas of my voice that I could not access before studying with him, that brought out more volume, power, range, resonance... For instance when I started studying with him I could only get up to about Bb4 in a very weak head voice, too quiet to work in performance. Now I can sing an E5 in a pretty loud connected resonant head voice any day of the week. And I've had that E5 for a while...it probably didn't take more than maybe 9 months to get to that point???

1.5 semitones gilad? You sure? That's like nothing...that's just one more note (plus a half a half step) on the piano...typo?

Kevin Richards, I haven't studied with him, so I don't know. I personally don't like his teaching style based on his youtube videos.

[Seth]

I imagine Gilad is talking about chesty note range, like getting from F# to A. Or A to C.

[Owen Korzec]

I imagine Gilad is talking about chesty note range, like getting from F# to A. Or A to C.

That would be three semitones, not 1 and a half. I think that's what Gilad means too, but a semitone is one note up on the piano...Ab to A, Bb to B, etc.

[gilad]

Hey Owen, and Seth

Actually its no typo. I have been singing since I was a child, so before starting pillars my range was E2-E5, doing the bridge and connect exercises made me extend it to G5, and recently G#5, so make it 2 tones. All head obviously.

[Opaa]

2 tones = 4 semitones and 1.5 tones = 3 semitones, this is the confusion. Although Owen already said this.

[gilad]

2 tones = 4 semitones and 1.5 tones = 3 semitones, this is the confusion. Although Owen already said this.

No confusion.

E5 up to F5 = Semitone

F5 to F#5 = Semitone

This equals one Tone

F#5 to G5 = Semitone

G5 to G#5 = Semitone

This equals one Tone

Tone + Tone = 2 Tones

Ahh. Just now reread my post and understood my typo.. 1.5 Semitones should have been 1.5 Tones which equals 3 Semitones.

The 2 Tones is up to G#5.

[ronws]

I came to this forum through watching Kevin Richards vids on youtube. He mentioned this forum in one of those.

Then I came here and really liked 4 Pillars, especially the earlier version, because it was rather classical, which fit with the classical methods I was familiar with, from before.

4 Pillars has expended in both content and technique to incorporate even more rock singing ability. I would say it is the comprehensive system of its type for the amount of money you will spend, which is competitively priced, by the way. However, I have not studied the other pop and rock singing systems to truly compare. I just know that it spoke to me, initially, in language I could understand and appreciate.

Others, who have owned more systems might have a better comparison to offer. However, if you want a system that offers both early and late bridging, tuning exercises, excellent breathing tutorial(s) and an instructor who bends over backwards to help, I would say 4 Pillars.

And, again, before others think I am just smooching behind, I don't know enough about the other systems or the responsiveness of those other instructors to truly compare. And I have not taken lessons with either teacher. Nor have owned any materials from rockthestageNYC. But I do like Richards' style of presentation in his videos. But I like Robert's, too.

As we have pointed out in numerous threads like this, before, find the language that best suits you. And also realize that with a responsive teacher, he will often find a way to express something to you that helps, and then he shares that insight with other students. I found this effect when I was teaching electrical work. Sometimes, finding a different way to teach a student gave me a different perspective that allowed me to help other students. The teacher learns while teaching the student.

[Keith]

It really depends on what you want to accomplish. Pick a teacher that demonstrated the style and voice type you want. Rob is a monster at teaching voice thickening and resonance building - and he is always coming up with new material. Also, Dan Formica is a brilliant teacher. He can sing literally any song you ask him too. He is familiar with all genres.. I've never studied with Kevin, so I can't comment on his style of teaching.

[gilad]

It really depends on what you want to accomplish. Pick a teacher that demonstrated the style and voice type you want. Rob is a [monster] at teaching voice thickening and resonance building - and he is always coming up with new material. Also, Dan Formica is a brilliant teacher. He can sing literally any song you ask him too. He is familiar with all genres.. I've never studied with Kevin, so I can't comment on his style of teaching.

Monster, LOL. I am sure he meant Master :lol:

[Keith]

No, monster. Well, master also lol

[zuzostar]

Thank you for the responses. After reading and watching YouTube videos for both Lunte and Richards I really like both of their styles, that's why it is so hard to decide!!!! I am not that interested in buying their programs, I am more interested in taking private Skype lessons that are tailored to my voice specifically. I just wish I could find a real deciding factor as to who would be best for me and my progress because from reading both of their websites and info I could go with either.

[Owen Korzec]

zuzostar, one thing I will say is that when I started taking lessons with Rob he really pushed the program on me as within it is all the exercises he wants you to train etc. That was over a year ago though, nowadays I'm not sure if he still feels the same way. Kevin Richards seems to be more of an individual-tailored type coach, from what little I know, but he also has his own program, so I can't say for sure. Not that Rob isn't individual-tailored but there is a bit of a system behind it too. Not as much as say Ken Tamplin with his stage 1, 2, 3 of his program, but he still has a bit of a tried and true general approach to all students, combined with individual tweaking

[maxwellsdemon]

zuzostar,

I have worked with both methods, and taken a vocal intensive with Rob. I plan on meeting Kevin some day too.

When I decided to shell out for an in-person vocal intensive lesson about two years ago, which both coaches offer, this is why I chose Rob:

1) Pillars 2.0 was just out, and was a substantially larger and a more technical method than Breaking the Chains (which was also new at the time, I think). Kevin's method is also sufficiently technical, of course, but Rob's is more so.

2) I live in the southwest, and Seattle was a much cheaper destination for me. New York City is notoriously expensive to stay in (awesome as the town is). For me, price is definitely an object, and I managed to keep my total trip cost to less than 2 times the lesson price itself. Depending on where you live and where you have friends, this calculation may be different for you.

3) This blog is much better and more technically useful than anything Kevin is on, at least that I know about, and is loaded with fellow students of Rob, using the same vocal language that Rob uses. Plus Rob himself is on it, duh.

I was also interested in pricing out a lesson with Jaime Vendura (still am) but could find absolutely no information about what city his studio is in, or any useful contact info. I'm pretty worried about his lesson price, given this situation where he was not (at least at the time) soliciting students.

Here is the main thing, I think. Both Kevin and Rob teach compatible methods, as far as I can tell. Rob uses his own language (which is very useful), but if you took a lesson with Rob then Kevin, or vice-versa, neither coach is going to beat you up and tell you to unlearn the other guy. They will use different language on occasion, ("bite the apple" vs. "intrinsic anchoring", whatever) but you could definitely study with both coaches simultaneously. I would like to. The only substantial difference that I can think of off hand is Kevin's acceptance of the concept of "mix", and Rob's famous rejection of it. This sounds like a big difference I know, but I've worked both methods and I never ask myself if I should use Rob's technique versus Kevin's for whatever vocal thing I'm working on. I don't use the concept of mix myself, but it does not interfere with anything really that Kevin teaches in the end.

If you go study with either coach, they focus on the same thing:

1) sing high rock/metal songs, with mostly clear voice

Neither is a complete musical education; you will not learn particularly efficiently

1) music theory

2) playing in time

3) genres too far out of the rock/metal lane.

But honestly, we are both reading this particular blog together and what do we want from these guys? HIGH ROCK VOCALS. That's what we want, and it's what these two guys teach. Rob coached me through Dream Theater's "Surrounded" on the second day of my lesson. Another day was Queensryche's "Eyes of a Stranger". You are not going to get that anywhere else. Not your local music teachers, not any traditional classically trained teachers. Not gonna happen. Dream who? For reference, I came into rock singing with an extensive university background in theory and composition, so I really am looking only for this one thing from these coaches. You may be in a different position.

You really want to take real lessons from these guys. That's how you get the real training. Rob offers more of his real material for free, largely on his website and this blog. Kevin gives away a little for free, but honestly a lot of the youtube material he has is mostly teaser. If you pay them, so they can earn a living, the experience changes dramatically. That's when they really open up and teach you anything that they can, and you ask for. For me, I studied Breaking the Chains first (I got it first). I hammered it really hard for a couple of months. My bridging and support was coming right along, then I discovered this blog, and with it, Pillars 2.0. I hammered that for another couple of months, including a two week stretch when my wife was away over the holidays, and I put in four hours each day. Got another quantum leap in vocal skill doing that. THEN I went to Seattle to study with Rob in person for four days in a row, three hours each day. So in one year (two years ago), I grew more as a high rock vocalist than I had in the previous ten. Before Breaking the Chains, I literally thought I was screwed because I was a baritone, and that only natural tenors could sing rock. So that was basically starting with no head voice or bridging at all, to a very satisfying level of rock singing in one year studying with these methods. Do it, it will turn your life upside down!

One final thing: just because you think now you want a particular thing (more chest resonance or whatever), abandon that thought and just go learn everything. It all interacts; you can't go for just one singing aspect at a time. When you get the tone you seek, you will also sing in better tune, with less fatique, perhaps vibrato or grit if you want it bad enough, all for the same effort.

John

[Willise]

I own Pillars as well, and find it to be a fairly well thought out program. I owned it before the TMI and I have to say, it was a jumble and hard to navigate at that time, but the interface makes it much easier now.

As John said, these guys teach high rock vocals - that is their "specialty" if you will. For me, I don't want to sing that type of music. I, and my band, are more into Eagles, Billy Joel, Beatles, etc. I have no need to go to E5 and beyond. I want to really concentrate on B4 and below for the most part. Not to say that those programs wouldn't help with that, but for me, I think Daniel Formica would be the best fit for my goals.

So I think it comes down to what you want to do. Dream Theatre type vocals - go with Lunte, Richards, or even Eli Prinsen (great teacher!!). If you want more "standard radio music" - these guys should help as well, or seek out a teacher that sings that type of music.

[zuzostar]

maxwellsdemon- thank you for your response. That helped me quite a bit. I decided to go with Robert because my intuition kept pulling me in his direction, especially after reading his bio and really resonating with the terminology that he used on his videos. I also emailed him and his response was lightning speed. I am pretty excited about getting started!

[Owen Korzec]

Just to correct maxwell a little bit...I've taken a LOT of lessons with Rob and based on what I've seen I think he is still capable of teaching those three things he mentioned to some degree. Of course not with full expertise but he'll be able to help you out for sure.

I'd imagine, same deal with Kevin. And for pretty much any great vocal coach. Just because they don't shove it to the forefront of their teaching doesn't mean they don't know a lot about it and could teach you it if requested.

But I get his point, you are paying for vocal technique lessons...those three things are different skill sets...it's like asking a calculus teacher to teach you geometry. Chances are they can teach it to you, just not as well as a geometry teacher.

[VideoHere]

owen, growing the voice even one semitone can be considered real progress.

[gilad]

owen, growing the voice even one semitone can be considered real progress.

THANK YOU!!

Yes, even a semitone when it comes to increasing the high range is considered great progress.

[VideoHere]

sure, and to add it's one thing to grow a semitone, it's altogether something else to sing the note in a number of different songs, with different intensities, and different lyrics, and demanding tessituras where you have to live up there......

[ronws]

Semitones are great. I remember the old "gains to report" thread and you, Bob, reported getting one more semitone in range. Which was just as important as any other gain. Because it was something real and solid.

Like Jim Thorpe shaving off half a second. That half second is a long time, from certain perspectives.

So, zuzo, good luck and congratulations for finding the path that works for you. I expect awesomeness. Why? Because every student of Robert's that I have heard is great.

[Owen Korzec]

owen, growing the voice even one semitone can be considered real progress.

Per register, and to the point of full reliability, I agree. But it typically can be done in a couple months or even less. With all the head voice training I've done with Rob it just adds up and up so now I'm up to F5 or so...and I started training with him last March, couldn't go higher than Bb4...so, on average it's about a semitone every 2 and a half months (but it works more like a curve, faster gains followed by progressively slower gains), just to give you an idea of the amount of time it takes to expand the head voice range. Chest voice range may be different, I am just now finally actively trying to expand that on its own and you have to be careful about it, so, maybe the pace for that is slower. So far, it has been, for me. I've only gone up about 3 semitones in reliable chest voice range since I started training with Rob. But head voice was always the main focus in the beginning, so I wouldn't say that growth necessarily has to happen that slowly.

[eggplantbren]

It's definitely true that extending the range can be quite a different process depending on how you're doing it (head voice vs chest voice or whatever). Speaking of extending the range by a small number of semitones seems strange to me.

Starting out, I could go to about E4 reliably, but I could occasionally get up to around G4. About a year ago I figured out how go get up to about A4 but in a way that sounded pretty bad. Nowadays I can get up to A4 in a way that sounds good, and A4-E5 in a way that sounds good on about 50% of my attempts.

I'm rambling on, but I just find the concept of a well defined endpoint of range doesn't really gel with my experience. It's pretty variable from moment to moment i) what notes I can get and ii) whether they sound good.

[benny82]

Getting range is actually quite easy. The hard thing is to get quality into that range. To me it's a little bit strange to divide the process into "chest voice range" and "head voice range". I made this assumption, too, that this is a different thing, but it actually really hindered my progress.

The "increase of chest range" is actually not increasing your chest voice but rather getting more (chest) quality into your head voice, which is really not an easy development.

Personally, when I started out my "chest voice" (belting) peaked out at around E4 and my falsetto around E5. Once I learned how to support better, I increased by belting range to A4 and my falsetto to A5, which seems like a physiological limit for me. However, this basically led me nowhere, because while I can sing an A4 in chest voice it is really not something that is recommendable. I tried really hard to increase that more because I thought that the secret really lies in "increasing chest range", but from my current point of view that is simply not true. Chest voice peaks out around A4 for most men, at around C5 for the really high pitched guys. And most of the time chest voice just sounds overcompressed on anything beyond F4 for most men.

Thus, it was a very important lesson for me that the goal is not increasing your chest range. It is rather evening out the differences between chest and head within the passaggio. This is also what gives you quality and control, which is a lot harder to learn than pure range.