Question about vocal fry

[waitwhat]

Hey there. I'm a bit confused as I'm trying to figure out my lower range(i'm trying to extend it), but first I needed to know if what I'm doing is vocal fry, in which case I'm counting a few notes that shouldn't count. Would this note(from 2:01 onwards) be considered vocal fry, or full voice?

-random youtube video

Probably a dumb question, but I hope to get an answer.

Also, what about his lows here? I thought that they were vocal fry, but they seem to be included in his full voice range. Maybe the poster just didn't know? Or maybe I'm getting it confused? There are links for each note in the video, but I'm really curious about the ones at 3:53, 4:02 and 4:09(in particular)

-Steven Tyler vocal range video

[gilad]

Hey JT.

I am no expert, but I can pretty much promise you that this is not considered vocal fry... Its just low notes. Vocal fry sounds like elmer fudd. (Im hunting wabbits)

[waitwhat]

Hey gilad,

Thanks! I was just wondering, because that first video I linked to said he was demonstrating vocal fry. I thought that I definitely heard some fry sound somewhere in the middle(can't remember exactly which minute off the top of my head), but since he didn't specify I wasn't sure. So am I to take it that a lot of singers going low have a sort of "crackly" quality to their low notes? I only ask because some opera singers don't seem to have that. Is that because they're basses as opposed to these guys or because of their training? Hope someone can clear this up for me.

[gilad]

Hey Jt,

Sorry I wont be your savior, and I myself have issues to get vocal fry. It only happens early in the morning or when i am sick. In other words when the voice is very relaxed. From what I heard him do in the first video, it doesn't sound like fry. Maybe there was a small part here and there, but for the most part, its just a low range.

[waitwhat]

Alright. Thanks Gilad!

[MDEW]

Hey gilad,

Thanks! I was just wondering, because that first video I linked to said he was demonstrating vocal fry. I thought that I definitely heard some fry sound somewhere in the middle(can't remember exactly which minute off the top of my head), but since he didn't specify I wasn't sure. So am I to take it that a lot of singers going low have a sort of "crackly" quality to their low notes? I only ask because some opera singers don't seem to have that. Is that because they're basses as opposed to these guys or because of their training? Hope someone can clear this up for me.

Vocal fry happens when your vocal cords are really loose and are vibrating occasionally. Like gillad said with Elmer Fudd, You can hear the under lying pitch plus an occasional pulse from the vocal folds like a crackling sound.

For an actual Bass The tone is from a thick folds that are fully closed and ingaged and is also resonant.

Although not fully resonant the singinger in your video seemed to have fully ingaged vocal folds and the whole tone was consistant with an actual sung note as opposed to vocal fry.

I am not a teacher and I admit I may be wrong but that is what it sounded like to me.

[benny82]

The guy in the first video is using a lot of vocal fry. Vocal fry is just a register, just like the other registers. You can use it in a broad spectrum of your range and it is just more suitable for a given part of the range.

What Elmar Fudd is doing is using vocal fry in a part of his range where it doesn't really fit. That sounds really weak and not really suitable for singing.

The range where fry becomes suitable is from D2 on towards the lower area. The sound the guy in the first video is using for the low notes is indeed vocal fry. However, for basses, vocal fry just sounds A LOT more powerful than for lighter voices. The difference is that for basses the folds still have quite some tension when down in fry register, while for higher guys the folds are so slack down there that hardly anything comes out, which often makes them resort to the "Elmar Fudd"-version of the register, which is not the "correct" way to sing down there.

This is me in my low range, from something like C2 on it is all vocal fry in the same coordination the guy in the first video uses:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/69231116/E2-E1.mp3

It is actually pretty similar to the higher part of your range. Singing teachers often talk about the problem of using falsetto (which is M2) too early in your range where it is not suitable. Falsetto becomes suitable from something like F4 on upwards, fry becomes suitable from D2 on downwards. In between you should try to use M1 register (modal voice). Fry before D2 and Falsetto before F4 will just sound "weak" and "wrong".

[ronws]

I thought I did some vocal fry for the lowest note in "Silent Lucidity." According to what I have learned about fry, that's what it was. But I am not an "expert." Someone else told me it was not "fry." So, as much as I would like to comment in this thread, evidently, I don't know my own voice.

[benny82]

I thought I did some vocal fry for the lowest note in "Silent Lucidity." According to what I have learned about fry, that's what it was. But I am not an "expert." Someone else told me it was not "fry." So, as much as I would like to comment in this thread, evidently, I don't know my own voice.

Yes, it's kind of strange: Once you make good use of a certain register, people start to call it "full voice" or "modal voice". This happens if you are able to do a powerful fry (M0) as well as if you do a powerful head voice (M2).

As of noticing it by yourself: You should notice a "registration event" or "switch of gears" when doing a siren downwards on entering fry mode, as well as you notice it when doing a siren upwards and enter M2.

[waitwhat]

Thanks for the replies Benny, you're helping me make sense of this. Just one last thing. I did a short recording on my phone of me sliding down from E2(or around there) to C2(or somewhere there). It isn't on pitch, and I'm aware it isn't spectacular. I just wanted to know if I'm in modal register or vocal fry here. Mostly because I discovered that I could go a lot lower a few days ago (I've determined that I'm a tenor ), and I want to know if this is modal voice or fry, before getting too excited.

https://soundcloud.com/jtl999/e2-c2 I think it sounds like fry, but I just wanted to make sure.

[benny82]

Thanks for the replies Benny, you're helping me make sense of this. Just one last thing. I did a short recording on my phone of me sliding down from E2(or around there) to C2(or somewhere there). It isn't on pitch, and I'm aware it isn't spectacular. I just wanted to know if I'm in modal register or vocal fry here. Mostly because I discovered that I could go a lot lower a few days ago (I've determined that I'm a tenor ), and I want to know if this is modal voice or fry, before getting too excited.

https://soundcloud.com/jtl999/e2-c2 I think it sounds like fry, but I just wanted to make sure.

Yes, that's fry. However, as said above, even basses usually use fry on notes like C2, their vocal tract just gives it larger resonance and their folds can produce it with more power and volume.

[Silent]

Hi, I'm 15 and I'm currently trying to extend my lower range as well. As of now, after I warm up, I can sing down to a very strong E2 and then a half note down to touch on Eb2. Do you guys have any idea as to how much lower I'll ever be able to get?

[benny82]

Hi, I'm 15 and I'm currently trying to extend my lower range as well. As of now, after I warm up, I can sing down to a very strong E2 and then a half note down to touch on Eb2. Do you guys have any idea as to how much lower I'll ever be able to get?

bass voices can usually go down to something like F1/G1 with acceptable volume. In fry of course. Eb2 is what most lower baritones can do in modal voice, basses can go a little bit lower without resorting to fry. I think the lowest modal I've heard so far is something like C2. Medium baritones and higher often drop out around F2/G2, tenors around A2/B2, but of course it is all about training to go beyond those "typical" problem zones.

[waitwhat]

Thanks for clearing that up, Benny! Did you/does anyone have any tips for singing lower and training your voice to do so? In modal voice preferably, fry isn't what I want to be doing.

[Silent]

With training which I have never done ever in my entire life, do you think I'll be able to go down to a C2 when I'm grown, maybe lower?

[ronws]

I am not a singing expert, though you have a good headstart, having such a strong E2 as you describe, though I have not actually heard your voice and am relying on your description. No one can promise you the extent of your range.

You'll just have to dive in and see what you are capable of. This is not like warranty or guarantee on your purchase of a computer. You could train for a long time and not have a C2 that is acceptable to you or anyone else. Or, you might.

So, get some training and see where your voice goes. I am all about doing whatever it is your voice can do. But first, you have to find out what it can do.

Been there, done that. I am pretty much a tenor. But in pop music, I can get away with things. I always thought the low end of "Silent Lucidity" by Queensryche was beyond my reach. So, I proved myself wrong.

Find the way that your voice can do what you want. Experiment, work at it for the rest of your life. I am. So can you.

[benny82]

Thanks for clearing that up, Benny! Did you/does anyone have any tips for singing lower and training your voice to do so? In modal voice preferably, fry isn't what I want to be doing.

Actually singing low notes is pretty similar to high notes when it comes to the element you have to use:

- You need good support, because down there you need a steady but low and slow air pressure

- As strange as it sounds: To drive modal down as far as possible you have to use lighter mass, because the more mass you use, the longer the closing phases get, which will drive you more towards fry. This will remove your fold closure, though, which means you also have to use a lot of twang to keep them together. As the ability to use twang vanishes pretty fast it means that you will be very quiet in terms of volume.

- If you want to sing with decent loudness on anything below D2, you have to use fry, because it is the suitable register for low notes. Using modal voice below D2 is similar to using falsetto below D4. It is possible but not really recommended.

So here is the excercise to pull modal as low as possible:

- start on your lowest note that is still really comfortable

- go lower in pitch by pulling back on the airflow with your support (it is very similar to lift up/pull back when you train high notes, it is just "move down/pull back" here)

- if your folds enter fry because of lacking airflow lower the larynx to make them vibrate again

- if you folds don't vibrate anymore and only "hot air" comes out, use more twang to bring them together again.

But my recommendation is really to just let fry register happen. It is "meant" to be used down there. The "break" is around Eb2 as mentioned before, then there 1 or 2 notes where the registration happens and around B1/C2 it is usually pure fry.

[benny82]

With training which I have never done ever in my entire life, do you think I'll be able to go down to a C2 when I'm grown, maybe lower?

Of course, especially if you don't care about the register. However, lows are usually not extended as much as your high notes. The reason for that is that fry register is usually not really desired from an artistic perspective (it is similar to whistle register on the high part). Most of singing happens in registers M1 and M2, and especially guys usually have all of their low M1 range from the get go, it is just the quality that improves.

When training the higher part of M1 and the M2 register "connect" and become available, which makes for a pretty big extension in the high part of the range, but on the low part there is not much room for additional M1 and fry register is often neglected.

I am placed quite low and my initial range was basically M1 from E2 to G3, which was all fairly strong but without "ringing quality" or connection to the higher parts (I could shout up to E4 or something like that, though).

Even after a lot of training on lows I don't use M1 any lower than C2. Depending on the vowel it can even happen that I have to switch as early as Eb2. I'm not a fully fledged profound bass, though; more like a lyric bass or bass-baritone. I think profound basses can go more easily to C2 in M1, but below that it's usually fry, too.

[waitwhat]

Thanks for your help Benny!