Snejk Posted May 31, 2010 Share Posted May 31, 2010 As a bariton, I have noticed that it's WAY harder to find a band to sing for. I know this because I am a FAIRLY good singer, but I can not sing the high notes the bands want in their songs. Now this has exclusively been the case. Since I love rock and metal and want to front such a band, there is no way I'll turn to country just because my voice isn't high. I can start with answering why I prefer high pitched singing over middle/low; ENERGY!!! EMOTION!!! SMOOTHNESS!!! That's all I need. I can sink into a world of my own, surrounded by these high voices... Now sure, I really enjoy Lee Hazlewood's melodic low-bariton for one but... It doesn't evoke the same feeling inside me. I become one with the melody, not the singing... People may talk about the middle register being the hardest part to master et cetera. Why is that not shown in metal/pop/rock, if it's so pleasant to listen to? I know my answer, what are yours? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freddie Posted May 31, 2010 Share Posted May 31, 2010 Check out Paul Rodgers in Free, Bad Company. He is not known for being a high-note singer. He is known for his timber. It is really intense and in your face. Definitely one of my all time favorites. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anonimuzz Posted May 31, 2010 Share Posted May 31, 2010 People also tend to prefer being tall than being short. I guess we all have a natural tendency to go after what stands out the most. High notes are loud and powerful, and they seem harder to achieve than the low, barely audible, scary-movie-ish notes, so they end up winning in terms of popularity. I actually think it's harder to expand the range downwards, but it probably varies upon individuals. To me, what should really stand out is creativity, with control. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jens Posted May 31, 2010 Share Posted May 31, 2010 Im a baritone myself and i feel the same way! Just feed your strengths and work on those highnotes cause they will come, many of the rocksingers are baritones with big ranges! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator Robert Lunte Posted May 31, 2010 Administrator Share Posted May 31, 2010 I just wrote a big explanation on this... and lost it due to my browser... cant start again... but it has to do with harmony, physical exercsion and the fact that low notes are far more familiar to the average listener because they are more approximate to the speaking voice... to put it simply, phonate pitches that the average person cant phonate in their day to day experience... that means high notes... and you are going to increase interest, tension in the music and excitment for the listener. Lastly, I am a Classical Baritone... do NOT think for a second that as a Classical baritone, that you can not sing just about any high note you want to... these Classical voice range classifications threaten to pigeon hole you into thinking you "cant"... and dont let that happen. Modern vocal training teachniques, such as what we do at TVS and new innovative ways to use the voice Definately can show you how to sound like a tenor and sing any note you need to sing... you just need to have the right voice coach to show you how. Hope this helps... my other response was far more elaborate... oh well, I have to get to work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJDeth Posted May 31, 2010 Share Posted May 31, 2010 I've always considered high notes being the expression of tension, passion and intensive emotion. Supposingly it is related to your natural speaking voice getting higher and louder when you're full of certain kind of emotion and strong feelings, such as anger, fear, pain, but also happyness or eagerness. As such, high and loud vocals make you feel in a certain way, because the emotions that the other person express become your own (I don't know if 'compassion' would be the right english word to name this mechanism?). Now, when you thing about the high vocals in, lets's say, Child in time, or Diamonds and Rust (Ripper Owens' version:) , you subconciously get the impression of the overwhelming feeling the singer has, and that's what brings you shivers:) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snejk Posted May 31, 2010 Author Share Posted May 31, 2010 Thanks a lot for your replies.. I'm curious as to what roles fachs such as bass, bariton and tenor have, if every fach can sing every note with the same power... Anyhow, if I want to have my voice analyzed, what should I record? A simple song seldom gets the job done... :3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronws Posted June 1, 2010 Share Posted June 1, 2010 I just wrote a big explanation on this... and lost it due to my browser... cant start again... but it has to do with harmony, physical exercsion and the fact that low notes are far more familiar to the average listener because they are more approximate to the speaking voice... to put it simply, phonate pitches that the average person cant phonate in their day to day experience... that means high notes... and you are going to increase interest, tension in the music and excitment for the listener. Lastly, I am a Classical Baritone... do NOT think for a second that as a Classical baritone, that you can not sing just about any high note you want to... these Classical voice range classifications threaten to pigeon hole you into thinking you "cant"... and dont let that happen. Modern vocal training teachniques, such as what we do at TVS and new innovative ways to use the voice Definately can show you how to sound like a tenor and sing any note you need to sing... you just need to have the right voice coach to show you how. Hope this helps... my other response was far more elaborate... oh well, I have to get to work. First off, another post that is right on, Mr. Lunte. Secondly, if you want to front a band as a baritone, there is precedent. Metallica. James Hetfield is a baritone. Granted, he can scratch tenor when he really wants to. But he prefers the chest-belting growl he can get in baritone. So, being baritone for metal doesn't have to stop you. Find a band with a similar vision to Metallica. Third, to echo Lunte, you might be capable of higher notes than you think. First, you have to divorce yourself from the thought that everything must absolutely come from behind the sternum, if that's your imagery. But even if you never develop into tenor, there are a few baritones that still make it big. The singer for Accept is a baritone. The rest of his voice is distortion. "Balls to the Wall" is so popular because it's in just about everyone's range. As for why tenors, either low or colurata (some used to be called castrati), that's just the way things are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted June 1, 2010 Share Posted June 1, 2010 * More drama * Fashion fad. A few decades ago, high male rock voices would have been considered awful and often still are by people of the croon generation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator Robert Lunte Posted June 2, 2010 Administrator Share Posted June 2, 2010 Well, I think it has much to do with the fact that the average listener is not accustomed to hearing phonations on high pitches that are not falsetto. Its mystifying, different... its like seeing someone long jump 9 feet or do a slam dunk in basketball. We (the horded masses) love it... we get turned on by seeing and hearing great athletic feats. We are excited to see super human demonstrations of the body... I think thats the main reason. High notes add tension and drama to singing to be sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronws Posted June 2, 2010 Share Posted June 2, 2010 Well, I think it has much to do with the fact that the average listener is not accustomed to hearing phonations on high pitches that are not falsetto. Its mystifying, different... its like seeing someone long jump 9 feet or do a slam dunk in basketball. We (the horded masses) love it... we get turned on by seeing and hearing great athletic feats. We are excited to see super human demonstrations of the body... I think thats the main reason. High notes add tension and drama to singing to be sure. This will sound totally off the wall but please, bear with me. A helper and I were sharing the use of a hand bender for 1 inch EMT (electrical metal tubing). He was struggling and about to get thrown off the bender. I took it for my use and made my 90 degree bend in two smooth shots. He assumed that I weighed more than he did. He didn't realize that it's about leverage (technique). I asked how much he weighed. It was the same as my weight. I said, "It's not the weight, it's technique." Analogous to that, you are right, the right technique produces something that seems magical to others, especially if they are uneducated as to the actual process involved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronws Posted June 2, 2010 Share Posted June 2, 2010 But, I would reiterate to the original poster, you can be a baritone in heavy metal and hard rock. I know what it's like to run up against the prejudices of local bands. Back in the early 90's, I was trying out for bands as a singer. Most were looking for a singer that sounded like either Robert Plant or David Coverdale. As anyone here who has heard my submissions, I sound nothing like those guys, with or without good equipment. So, find a band that has the same aesthetic as Metallica or even Faith No More. They were more about the effect of the whole song as an art piece, rather than what's the highest not the singer could reach. In fact, Michael, the singer of Faith No More, was quite anti-establishment. So, be the new rebel. Dare to sing baritone, you bad boy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jens Posted June 3, 2010 Share Posted June 3, 2010 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lPLY2g2I2ps baritone, huge range http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6FX2bJXfwe8 plus youll find many people on this very forum who would fall under the baritonal fach and still being able to pull of tenor and above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anonimuzz Posted June 3, 2010 Share Posted June 3, 2010 Daniel Gildenlöw is one of my favorite singers in his genre. Good example. It's all a question of opening our minds and accepting new sounds. It's always refreshing to go a little bit against the rules and then find out that it can perfectly work. It's not even that rare to find non-tenors singing this type of music, as this topic has shown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VideoHere Posted June 3, 2010 Share Posted June 3, 2010 As a bariton, I have noticed that it's WAY harder to find a band to sing for. I know this because I am a FAIRLY good singer, but I can not sing the high notes the bands want in their songs. Now this has exclusively been the case. Since I love rock and metal and want to front such a band, there is no way I'll turn to country just because my voice isn't high. I can start with answering why I prefer high pitched singing over middle/low; ENERGY!!! EMOTION!!! SMOOTHNESS!!! That's all I need. I can sink into a world of my own, surrounded by these high voices... Now sure, I really enjoy Lee Hazlewood's melodic low-bariton for one but... It doesn't evoke the same feeling inside me. I become one with the melody, not the singing... People may talk about the middle register being the hardest part to master et cetera. Why is that not shown in metal/pop/rock, if it's so pleasant to listen to? I know my answer, what are yours? snejk, man, you hit a nerve on this one...every band i've ever auditioned for always was asking "can you do plant, can you do perry, this guy , that guy....i learned to sing high notes by striving and striving and visualizing them (i wanted them so bad). all the years i sang without any vocal training (i was so dumb thinking only opera singers got training). please, trust me, if you are willing to work at it, you will expand your range...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted June 3, 2010 Share Posted June 3, 2010 People may talk about the middle register being the hardest part to master et cetera. Why is that not shown in metal/pop/rock, if it's so pleasant to listen to? I'd say Dio sang very much in that register. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonpall Posted June 3, 2010 Share Posted June 3, 2010 Snejk, when people refer to the middle register being the hardest one, they are talking about the notes around your passagio. For males, that's often between Eb4 and G4 or something like that, where untrained singers often "crack". They are not talking about the notes that are a few steps lower, IMO (C3-C4 or something like that). So it's a bit misleading to say "middle". People kind of have to state what they mean by that word so that they'll be understood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted June 4, 2010 Share Posted June 4, 2010 Having said that, I do believe its time to go listen to some Dio. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jens Posted June 4, 2010 Share Posted June 4, 2010 matt longtime no see, why havent you been around? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VideoHere Posted June 4, 2010 Share Posted June 4, 2010 As a bariton, I have noticed that it's WAY harder to find a band to sing for. I know this because I am a FAIRLY good singer, but I can not sing the high notes the bands want in their songs. Now this has exclusively been the case. Since I love rock and metal and want to front such a band, there is no way I'll turn to country just because my voice isn't high. I can start with answering why I prefer high pitched singing over middle/low; ENERGY!!! EMOTION!!! SMOOTHNESS!!! That's all I need. I can sink into a world of my own, surrounded by these high voices... Now sure, I really enjoy Lee Hazlewood's melodic low-bariton for one but... It doesn't evoke the same feeling inside me. I become one with the melody, not the singing... People may talk about the middle register being the hardest part to master et cetera. Why is that not shown in metal/pop/rock, if it's so pleasant to listen to? I know my answer, what are yours? singing the middle "voice" is tough to master i.m.o. if you go too far one way you're to heady and light and if you tip too far the other you carry too much chest. that's why i swear by that messa di voce exercise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gno Posted June 5, 2010 Share Posted June 5, 2010 Snejk - I read an article on themodernvocalist (I can't find this article anymore) where the author said that all males have the same range (same with females) and it is only the resonances and that determine if you are a baritone or tenor. After watching the brett manning videos and then adding about an octave to my range in the the last 6 months after using Ken Tamplin's techniques, and being part of this forum, I'm convinced this is true. You can have a huge range and sing all the songs you want if you work at it the right way. It doesn't come from hard work alone. You've got to do it the right way. The sound of a bass or baritone singing really high has a very cool sound to it. Sounds like you just need to add the tenor range to your arsenal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snejk Posted June 5, 2010 Author Share Posted June 5, 2010 Well... I just sang "Wind of Change" on karaoke in original key and I manage to hit all notes in a light voice.. Though at the end chorus I usually decide to sing "power" as to provide my baritone voice into it instead of a light tenor voice... This souns very pretentious but I do have a point... When singing another Scorpion song 'Still Loving You" (well performed, if not as light and feathery as Klaus, but still spot on! by Jonpall) I can't even get those notes unless I hit overdrive or falsetto/head voice. Now after my conversations with Meine I know for a fact that he doesn't go "head voice", but a very light and high chest voice in the verse for example. Something I can't do even if my life depended on it (nor can anyone I know) I believe in individuality. No one is made the same and we all have different preferences. I just wish I had a tenor voice - from the start. Not one which I had to work hard for... I've met some young tenors which sing really high very naturally but can't even get close to my lowest notes, which I've had my entire life... Point being - people have different prospects and some people have an innate ability to sing higher. We can't all be feather light tenors regardless of what some programs try to teach. I do believe however that with certain techniques we can twang our "metal sound" or "raise our larynx" to sing a very light ballad not in our original regiser... They're all techniques to reach our goals... But some people got light or heavy voices - deal with individuality! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonpall Posted June 7, 2010 Share Posted June 7, 2010 Snejk, if you get proper vocal instruction, you CAN learn how to sing like that, even though you couldn't before. It has happened to many people before you and you COULD join the club. I'm trying my best to join it also and there are too many members on this site that already have joined it to count. But until you do, be happy with what you have. I definitely agree that people can get too caught up in high note singing when there is SO much you can do with the lower notes. Ultimately it's all about the music and not all songs have high notes, especially if you're writing your own - then you can do whatever you like and discover what's unique and cool about your own voice that no one else has. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted June 8, 2010 Share Posted June 8, 2010 matt longtime no see, why havent you been around? Hi! Kind of drifted over to boxing from singing temporarily, havent had time for much singing, I'll be more active in a while. Still browsing though :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VideoHere Posted June 10, 2010 Share Posted June 10, 2010 As a bariton, I have noticed that it's WAY harder to find a band to sing for. I know this because I am a FAIRLY good singer, but I can not sing the high notes the bands want in their songs. Now this has exclusively been the case. Since I love rock and metal and want to front such a band, there is no way I'll turn to country just because my voice isn't high. I can start with answering why I prefer high pitched singing over middle/low; ENERGY!!! EMOTION!!! SMOOTHNESS!!! That's all I need. I can sink into a world of my own, surrounded by these high voices... Now sure, I really enjoy Lee Hazlewood's melodic low-bariton for one but... It doesn't evoke the same feeling inside me. I become one with the melody, not the singing... People may talk about the middle register being the hardest part to master et cetera. Why is that not shown in metal/pop/rock, if it's so pleasant to listen to? I know my answer, what are yours? snejk, i stubbled on to these while learning to sing my own version of this song. there are two videos below. one is sung by tom jones, the other by richard marx. (both great vocalists, i.m.o.) tom jones: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lwrOtXA-S1o richard marx: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vYMsa-JQuvo what's interesting is marx is singing 2, 1/2 steps lower than tom jones, but marx's lighter timbre gives the illusion he's singing higher. interesting. voice in a lower Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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