Sensation for m3/flageolot/"super high" head voice?

[jco5055]

Hey guys, I've started to notice for me that my head voice notes from like F#4 (my approximate passagio) through C5-D5 have a different feel for me than the notes from D#5 onwards. I know via owning Pillars how Rob says you have to modify to a more open Ah ish vowel somwhere around A4 to continue singing upwards, and in the book M3 is listed as approximately A4 and up for males. Now when I practice with pillars I had modified accordingly (at least I thought so) at around A#4, but I never noticed a drastically different sensation.

Then somewhere around C5-D#5 I would start to have troubles, and by troubles I mean even in falsetto would often get a blockage or stop like I just couldn't go any higher. Even right now if I were to just phonote in falsetto around there I will produce a choked off sound for about a second until I adjust my placement. This placement has the sensation (to me at least) of sitting behind the soft palate, at about the height of the sinuses/nasal cavity. In fact, because of the sensation of where the placement is I would guess i would be singing nasally but the pinched nose test shows no nasality. My tone also is more resembling how guys pretend to sing like an operatic soprano.

Is this the proper feeling/placement of M3/flageolot etc? If it is, is it possible to not "bridge early" enough into M3 from M2, and be basically "pushing M2/head?" I don't remember the sensation, but I remember that approximately a year or so ago I could sing up to my limit (about B5) easily, but all of my head notes always sounded a bit too falsettoey/not chesty enough. Now that I've pretty much been honing the Warm Up and Foundaton Routine exclusively, and never venturing up into the fifth octave, I'm wondering if I'm now unconsciously trying to cover all of my head notes? I guess to put it another way, if it wasn't for the fact that I like to use wind and release onsets a lot in my warmup to make sure I'm not belting, my current troubles up near the 5th octave coupled with my virtual elimination of my passagio (thanks to the TVS W&F Routine) would lead me to believe my passagio was up near my current trouble spot and I was singing in chest until then.

[jco5055]

I could make an audio clip later today if that would help.

[jco5055]

Here is a link to me singing from F4 to C6, all in my head voice. Around E5 is when I go into the "operatic, nasal but not" singing, and like C-C#5 to E5 I don't sound "belty or boomy" enough in my opinion, but I'll let you guys listen.

https://app.box.com/s/lnzz3z431g4k77ex1j3m

It's in .Wav format.

[Steven Fraser]

Here is a link to me singing from F4 to C6, all in my head voice. Around E5 is when I go into the "operatic, nasal but not" singing, and like C-C#5 to E5 I don't sound "belty or boomy" enough in my opinion, but I'll let you guys listen.

https://app.box.com/s/lnzz3z431g4k77ex1j3m

It's in .Wav format.

jco5055: oh, man. Get an MP3 compressor. This takes serious bandwidth to download or play realtime.

That said... there are some very good things going on here, and its (past) time to connect these sounds into phrases, and to fine-tune the vowel choices and twang for tonal consistency that will lead to a fuller (boomier) sound.

Here are my suggestions:

1) When you onset up there, do a full, actual messa di voce, with soft onset, crescendo, then a decresendo and clean release on pitch. Mastery of a note in any range means full dynamic control of both the 'getting louder' phase, and the 'getting softer' part of the note.

2) 1-octave arpeggios on the same vowel, crossing the passaggio, will help connect and make consistent the ranges of your voice. When you have those, extend to 2 octaves by beginning lower.

3) The /e/ vowel you are using up there is not the boomiest you have. Eh, Ih and OE (as in hood and heard) are worthy of your experimentation.

4) Pick a song, and work it into your voice... one that uses your entire range. One that comes to mind is 'A whole lotta love' :-)

I hope this is helpful.

[jco5055]

jco5055: oh, man. Get an MP3 compressor. This takes serious bandwidth to download or play realtime.

That said... there are some very good things going on here, and its (past) time to connect these sounds into phrases, and to fine-tune the vowel choices and twang for tonal consistency that will lead to a fuller (boomier) sound.

Here are my suggestions:

1) When you onset up there, do a full, actual messa di voce, with soft onset, crescendo, then a decresendo and clean release on pitch. Mastery of a note in any range means full dynamic control of both the 'getting louder' phase, and the 'getting softer' part of the note.

2) 1-octave arpeggios on the same vowel, crossing the passaggio, will help connect and make consistent the ranges of your voice. When you have those, extend to 2 octaves by beginning lower.

3) The /e/ vowel you are using up there is not the boomiest you have. Eh, Ih and OE (as in hood and heard) are worthy of your experimentation.

4) Pick a song, and work it into your voice... one that uses your entire range. One that comes to mind is 'A whole lotta love' :-)

I hope this is helpful.

Thanks Steven!

First off, sorry about the .wav file. I was questioning if I should convert to mp3 seeing as Rob asked me to for samples I sent him so he could listen on his Iphone, but I didn't realize how large the file was til now. Yeesh!

Just to clarify, is the traditional 'messa di voce' onset the exact same that is listed in Pillars? Thanks!

[jco5055]

in case anyone was interested, I converted my original file to a MUCH smaller mp3 and is here:

https://app.box.com/s/ciq1ugrfpzkn4utuxi5z

[ronws]

Thanks for sharing that, JCO. on your highest notes, they are not messa di voce but I think that is okay. For some time, they will only be possible as full voice notes, rather than soft. And take some comfort. You are doing something that 99 % of humanity cannot do.

What works for me, though others may disagree, is to concentrate your messa di voce exercises in the passsagio ( which is the F#4 area, for you, and the 5th octave.) Which may just be a personal opinion of mine. Work out the middle and the ends will take care of themselves. Considering that you did a solid A5, you should have done "Child in Time." Though, yes, you have to be in the mood for it.

[Steven Fraser]

Just to clarify, is the traditional 'messa di voce' onset the exact same that is listed in Pillars? Thanks!

jco5055: My library is all in boxes for the office painting, so I cannot check my copy to be sure. An easy, clean onset (not breathy) should work just fine.

[Owen Korzec]

jco, it's not. There are several differences. The official classical mesa di voce is a smooth crescendo followed by a smooth decrescendo and you're supposed to keep the tone quality consistent through all of it. The TVS one is basically just the first half and also encourages a change in tone...from airy to connected.

[jco5055]

Thanks for sharing that, JCO. on your highest notes, they are not messa di voce but I think that is okay. For some time, they will only be possible as full voice notes, rather than soft. And take some comfort. You are doing something that 99 % of humanity cannot do.

What works for me, though others may disagree, is to concentrate your messa di voce exercises in the passsagio ( which is the F#4 area, for you, and the 5th octave.) Which may just be a personal opinion of mine. Work out the middle and the ends will take care of themselves. Considering that you did a solid A5, you should have done "Child in Time." Though, yes, you have to be in the mood for it.

Thanks Ron, I honestly did think about recording a "Child in Time", but for me, I've just really never liked/know the song.

Most "challenge" songs, barring if Rob or another coach does a challenge with an original, are going to be songs I know, or at least remember how 90% of the song goes before I would start practicing the song. This is assuming that a challenge song would most likely be from Queensryche, Led Zeppelin, Foreigner, Queen, Judas Priest, Iron Maiden, and other bands/artists known for their vocal prowess

But for Child in Time, I probably only really knew the 'oo' section, but not the actual lyrics.

[jco5055]

Yeah I looked it up and saw they aren't alike, but then I also looked up a traditional 'messa di voce' and began to practice them today.

Thanks again!

[jco5055]

jco, it's not. There are several differences. The official classical mesa di voce is a smooth crescendo followed by a smooth decrescendo and you're supposed to keep the tone quality consistent through all of it. The TVS one is basically just the first half and also encourages a change in tone...from airy to connected.

I missed this before I replied but thanks Owen.

[jco5055]

Thanks Phil! I will definitely look into/experiment with going heavier/"chest pulling" to see where that takes me.