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excerting more effort higher up in the range

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gilad
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Hey guys.

Anyone know why is it that when i try to sing higher in my range it requires a lot more effort than in my low range? Any excercise to fix this issue?

Hi Gilad, I may be wrong, by I read that according to CVT (Catherine Sadolin), the higher the pitch and the higher the volume, more effort (support) is needed. So, if you want to sing the same note louder, you need more "support energy". If you want to sing a higher pitch note on the same volume, you need more "support energy". And finally, if you want to sing a higher pitch note louder, you need even more "support energy". If I'm not mistaken, there is even a schematic diagram to illustrate this concept. I think there is no exercise that would get red of this. But with lots of exercises you will be fit and feel less tired. Fortunately, in this forum there are plenty of people way more knowledgeable than me who can give more information, and even correct anything wrong I may have said. Cheers.

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a lot of variables can make a high note easy (easier) and another can feel like you're holding on for dear life.

so many factors play into whether it's easier or harder:

the note itself, (some b4's are killer while a e5 can be easier) the lyrics, the notes that come before the one you need to hit, the intensity level, the vowel, the sound you're going for, the level of compression, etc.

does that help? also remember the vocal folds for low notes vs. high notes.

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a lot of variables can make a high note easy (easier) and another can feel like you're holding on for dear life.

so many factors play into whether it's easier or harder:

the note itself, (some b4's are killer while a e5 can be easier) the lyrics, the notes that come before the one you need to hit, the intensity level, the vowel, the sound you're going for, the level of compression, etc.

does that help? also remember the vocal folds for low notes vs. high notes.

Awesome reply. And to this, I would like to add, some people approach the two halves of their range differently. I think, sometimes, people talk their way through the low end, essentially speaking in rhythm. As opposed to higher notes, where you do have to control the breath.

In my opinion, you need to control the breath throughout the range, even at the low end where you speak. You cannot just speak the lines, unless it is an actual recitation, such as in "Nights in White Satin" by the Moody Blues. "Breathe deep, the gathering gloom. Watchlights fade from every room ...."

So, that was one of the things I worked on to get more toward a "one voice" thing.

Which requires me to get all "Bob" on you. It is conditioning, it is physical. It will take a while as your support mechanism, which I shorten to "abs" get used to being in action more constantly in the act of singing, even at low pitch and low volume. Hence, the first part of my mantra or "ronws cliche," motion, when necessary, in the abs.

It is my opinion that most people speak with residual pressure from the collapsing of the lungs. Ever notice that when you speak up to be heard, you engage the midsection or core a little more. As Dr. Fillebrown said, "singers are profesional breathers."

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As was mentioned, CVT has researched this and found that high notes will require more support energy. They have a nice graph in the book. The louder you go the more support energy you need. And it's logarithmic - a loud high note may require 200% more support, but the same note in low volume may only require 25% more. For me, if I sing very lightly it doesn't even feel like there is more support at all for the high notes.

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Really simply as you go higher the vibrating mass gets smaller(folds) the resonating mass gets larger or hypothetically. You need to have the skill to keep the cords just together enough to let them have the ring of the "chest voice" and free enough to reach the pitch and not kill yourself with volume. If you use volume your gonna sound strained and reaching. Besides if you keep using volume you will eventually cap out. You need technique to finesse the notes. The strength and power will come like any sport.

Bob your answer sounds familiar;)

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I know this: If you don't NAIL the preceeding notes to the high note, then the high note will fail. I sing an original song in my band that has a climb that goes "I'm Still Try-ing" , and it walks up to D5 (the "ing" is a held D5). If I mess up the notes below it, or belt them, the D5 falls apart. Not sure if what I said makes sense, or is at all important to the thread, but hope it helps!

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I know this: If you don't NAIL the preceeding notes to the high note, then the high note will fail. I sing an original song in my band that has a climb that goes "I'm Still Try-ing" , and it walks up to D5 (the "ing" is a held D5). If I mess up the notes below it, or belt them, the D5 falls apart. Not sure if what I said makes sense, or is at all important to the thread, but hope it helps!

It does to me. The preceding notes help you set up the onset for the high note. When I am singing along with "Bohemian Rhapsody" and the Roger Taylor note is coming up, one of the final "for me" reps before that, I go light and high, getting the onset right. Then whammo! There it is.

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Yeah if you sing that bottom too heavy you have nowhere to go up top.

Gilad: it only requires more effort if you're not allowing your voice to shift into that headier resonance and mix with it as you ascend.

Exactly and this is where some "methods" that say you need to bring your chest up this high or this low for everyone, can fail because if your are a chest puller already and someone keeps saying "higher, higher", you are just gonna keep inducing this bad muscle memory and wonder why you can't sing higher easier. You might be someone that needs to only bring it to Eb. It needs to be personalized

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i agree with phil and dan both.

but the one thing i'm dead set on is from personal experience. also, my experience with frisell.

maybe it's singing for years before actually taking lessons, maybe it's thousands of scales....i don't really know...but

if you are a "yeller" or whatever "you pull chest" (hate that term) "you fail to release into head" "you bring up too much weight" whatever name or term you want to use...if you learn to carve into a narrow vowel or vowel shade (for your particular voice) in time you are going up in range powerfully, resonantly, whatever "chestier sounding."

the vowel and support takes you up. i don't believe you need to release anything.

i work on these vowels....."oo" "ee" "uh" (that french one, don't know the name of it, just the sound), "aw" "hung" and boy did it help me to go up.

i don't care about chest or head..one voice!!

i know you folks are teachers, and i respect and learn from every one of you.....

i'm just explaining what's working for me.

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Hey Guys, thanks for all the replys. Sorry it took so long for me to read this. Got pretty busy.

Anyways, yes. I most definitely think I am one of those who brings his chest up high as there is no way in hell I can do the hooty or heady notes without loosing my tone.. I have tried everything from Gooo, Gooo, Gaa, Gaa, Gii, Giii but nothing really helps me get to this headier placement muscle memory...

So from what I am getting from reading this all, I am doing it very wrong if I use much more effort when going to my higher notes, and if ill try to do the hooty owel sound up there, its not happening.

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gilad, just try a scale with the sound "aw" as in "awe." configure to a yawn like setup. try drawing in the lips a bit...relax

don't reach..don't pull......the "aw" has elements of chest and head together. it's a great sound to let you up without feeling like you've hit a ceiling.

it's not to sound good..just to sense the release.....

as you head up the scale try either shading in a little towards "uh (book) or "oo" (cool)....see which one is better for your particular voice......this will help you up more..

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Here you go:

Hooty Awe: http://soundcloud.com/user206400908/awe/s-gLfUz

Hooty Goo: http://soundcloud.com/user206400908/goo/s-5v6gP

As you notice my voice cuts out at different points each time unless I put a lot of effort in...

I am so clueless about why this is happening, especially after the scope showed everything alright with the Folds...

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Just did a little experiment...

I took a candle, and vocalized in front of it the same awe, goo and to my surprise the candle didn't even flicker through out. I was under the assumption that the candle will blow out or flicker when i reach the cut off notes... How odd is that...

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gilad, lots of tension in there man, not using enough energy... It may be a lot of effort right now but you are holding back...

Work first on relaxing this emission. Use neck rolls, massage your throat, breatg control exercises, whatever you need to relax. Then, use your hands on your face, pretend that your face is melting down as you slide your hands on your cheeks.

Do that while you release into falsetto, disconnected, loose and crappy, the sound quality you want is that of a soprano.

Dont attack the notes hard, make sure you are starting the note together with the start of airflow. Imagine that this start happens between your eyes, above your nose. Look for tongue tensions as you do this.

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gilad, i said try a scale not a siren...relax, it sounds like the larynx is shooting up on you.

your "awe" is too "ah" sounding as in "cat"........add a little more "oh" into the sound.

it's important you get the right sound. listen especially to the first 10 seconds of this video. go for the sound he is making. don't forget don't push, relax into a nice comfortable yawn like setup. if you get this right, you will move nicely up without any issues.

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Interesting article I found about Muscle Tension Dysphonia and circumlaryngeal massage that helps relieve the tensions. Anyone have any experience with this?

http://everythingspeech.com/treatment/voice-treatment-treatment/muscle-tension-dysphonia-treatment/

Here is an interesting video on the subject:

And here is a self massage technique for the larynx:

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Strange... I went to record a song today without doing any special warmup, and the voice was crisp and clear compared to times I do warmup, or do a vocal training session before...

Seems like when I sing, I don't really care about technique, or muscles, or tension.

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gilad, probably that something you are doing on the warm-up and training are not really doing you a service anymore.

Warm ups should be comfortable, first and foremost, and get things ready, just that. It should include relaxation routines for example.

Something that Ive found to be pretty much a common sense with others teachers, and experienced both personaly and while working with others: We tend to assimilate things that help us as things that are good. And it is simply not true, a solution is just a reference to allow us change the coordination issue, if we start to believe that "witch-cackle" is THE universal solution, it will help you first when your voice is low and backwards, start to sound very agressive as you reposition, then you will lose power and quality and ultimately will cause a lot of tension because you are already very forward and have nowhere to go.

Your center is how your vowels are today. Should this center need a correction in one or another direction, then a reference should be used. Any references used to change them must not become a constant presence on your voice, unless on very specific cases. Otherwise, you are over-solving a problem which just causes another problem to appear later...

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gilad, probably that something you are doing on the warm-up and training are not really doing you a service anymore.

Warm ups should be comfortable, first and foremost, and get things ready, just that. It should include relaxation routines for example.

Something that Ive found to be pretty much a common sense with others teachers, and experienced both personaly and while working with others: We tend to assimilate things that help us as things that are good. And it is simply not true, a solution is just a reference to allow us change the coordination issue, if we start to believe that "witch-cackle" is THE universal solution, it will help you first when your voice is low and backwards, start to sound very agressive as you reposition, then you will lose power and quality and ultimately will cause a lot of tension because you are already very forward and have nowhere to go.

Your center is how your vowels are today. Should this center need a correction in one or another direction, then a reference should be used. Any references used to change them must not become a constant presence on your voice, unless on very specific cases. Otherwise, you are over-solving a problem which just causes another problem to appear later...

Interesting point Felipe.

Yet, I still don't know what warm up I should use.. I try some lip rolls, some humming, some Hunging...

OH, Look at this.. Who needs a Laryngoscopy when you can use an iPhone 4 ;) LOL

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