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excerting more effort higher up in the range

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gilad

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careful you don't drop the phone down there!! LOL!

brings a whole new meaning to "it's the LAW-AH!" hahah

"Hey guys, when you buy my course I'll through in this block that you can shove down your throat, if you can't fit it in your throat it means you aren't keeping the throat open!!!!"

I'm actually gonna try this today...

LOL.

Hey Phil, if you do, please post a video. I can't since I have a galaxy s3.. Imagine fitting that in your mouth.

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gilad, i said try a scale not a siren...relax, it sounds like the larynx is shooting up on you.

your "awe" is too "ah" sounding as in "cat"........add a little more "oh" into the sound.

it's important you get the right sound. listen especially to the first 10 seconds of this video. go for the sound he is making. don't forget don't push, relax into a nice comfortable yawn like setup. if you get this right, you will move nicely up without any issues.

Isn't this vowel the same as Ken Tamplin's first vowel modification for the Ah vowel? But I think he calls is O as in "dog". Then the next one is Uh and the last one is Oo. Am I correct?

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not sure. that french "oh" steve fraser always said was a great setup to learn to work through your passaggio. tamplin learned from ron anderson...

sometimes i think the vowels that they use are good starting points, but then you have to go and experiment till you figure out which shade works best for you on which note, and on which level of intensity..etc., etc......

i know one thing...i would never have figured this vowel mod. narrowing skill out on my own. learning that part of voice training is seriously mandatory if you want to extend your range and sound chesty up high.

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sometimes i think the vowels that they use are good starting points, but then you have to go and experiment till you figure out which shade works best for you on which note, and on which level of intensity..etc., etc......

That's almost like saying that each voice is individual. Welcome, to the dark side ...

:cool:

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not sure. that french "oh" steve fraser always said was a great setup to learn to work through your passaggio. tamplin learned from ron anderson...

sometimes i think the vowels that they use are good starting points, but then you have to go and experiment till you figure out which shade works best for you on which note, and on which level of intensity..etc., etc......

i know one thing...i would never have figured this vowel mod. narrowing skill out on my own. learning that part of voice training is seriously mandatory if you want to extend your range and sound chesty up high.

Bob can you describe the sensations of narrowing the vowels to sing higher in chest around the passagio?

I believe I discovered this exact coordination some time ago. I no longer feel the need to bring or release head into it (only if I want to), I do have to support a heck of a lot stronger, but I'm able to take chest as high as I want to this way, which is a neat tool to have, makes belting wayyy more fun.

I personally feel the vowel seriously shrinking and fitting right at the bridge of the nose,eyes, forehead area

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well i managed to fit the phone in lol but i can't vocalize at all as it only just fits in there AHAHAHA. interesting though, because I've never seen my vocal folds before.

So you are saying that you were able to see the folds not in motion?

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Bob can you describe the sensations of narrowing the vowels to sing higher in chest around the passagio?

I believe I discovered this exact coordination some time ago. I no longer feel the need to bring or release head into it (only if I want to), I do have to support a heck of a lot stronger, but I'm able to take chest as high as I want to this way, which is a neat tool to have, makes belting wayyy more fun.

I personally feel the vowel seriously shrinking and fitting right at the bridge of the nose,eyes, forehead area

sure power,

the best way i can describe it is when i narrow my voice it feels like it has closed in on me yet it's feels very released and very tall.

i feel like the voice has entered into a slender vertical slot, but a slot that needs to be energized more and my mind is saying "this is where you need to be, but give me more breath pressure, to really light it up and make it ring like crazy.

something just tells you it's very right. you don't need anyone to tell you. you can sense it by the way it feels and the way it sounds.

it's not a placement i feel with this slot..it's more a feeling of a union.

it also feels very united in the sense of one voice. it's a very vertical sensation depending on the note as opposed to other times when it feels behind.

i don't feel like i've taken chest up, nothing feels like it went up anymore... rather i feel like i've descended on the high note and brought it down from above. like i took it off a shelf especially when a line starts off high.

this takes away all feeling of transcending, or going in and out of registers.......

i really think the "oo" vowel (and shading in "oh") and getting a stronger with has helped me in so many ways.

frisell always harped on the "oo" "aw" and "ee" vowel being the one to work hard and i can now see why.

so hard to explain...it really is. does this help?

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Gilad, I got a glimpse of them, couldn:t get as clear a view as the woman in the video, but I guess it comes with practice.

I tried with my iPhone5 a few times but just couldn't see them - tongue was in the way. Maybe she has a different shape to her throat? Maybe it's more difficult for males? It would be so cool to monitor the folds and surrounding muscles without having to set up an appointment (and pay the money) with an ENT. Maybe I have to grab the tongue and really yank it out like an ENT does? My ENT grabs my tongue with like a white cloth and pulls it out in order to get his mirror back there.

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so hard to explain...it really is. does this help?

Sounds about right Bob, you put it more eloquently than I ever could.

It's definitely a loud resonant ringy sound, but it doesn't have a strained quality to it ... it's just loud and can get rather "shouty" but it is well connected where it needs to be.

This also demands great control and tremendous amounts of support and holding back the air, or you can most definitely hurt yourself when belting in this configuration.

Coming from an early or earlier bridge/light mass mentality, this is so much more fun when you really wanna give it your all with passion, but it obviously doesn't fit every song and isn't always needed or preferred so it's good to be able to have both techniques at your command.

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Even though it's a neat thing to be able to see your own vocal folds. Using such a method will produce an unreliable result, especially in regards to muscle activity. The muscles will not respond normally with such a thing down your throat, even a rigid endoscope used by an ENT is not good for monitoring muscle activity. :)

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I'm wondering how many people will have to go to an ENT because they have a phone lodged in their mouth.

Or caught something from forgetting to clean it first. :|

Back to original question of Exerting more more effort in the higher range.Ever heat water in a teapot? They used to have an alarm built in. there was a hole in the lid. As the water would heat steam would build up inside the teapot.

The teapot would start to whistle. The more pressure in the teapot the faster the steam would leave the teapot, the higher pitch and loudness of the whistle. The hole did not change size only the pressure and the speed of the steam escaping.

Although you can also change the length of vocal folds and resonance shape this principle also applies to the voice.

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While it would be cool to see your folds while singing, that's pretty hard with a phone rammed into the back of your mouth. Since I suffer from LPR from time to time, where the muscles surrounding the folds get inflamed / red, I was hoping to monitor that - or at least see what the ENT sees. Unfortunately I haven't been able to get it to work yet.

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I'm wondering how many people will have to go to an ENT because they have a phone lodged in their mouth.

Or caught something from forgetting to clean it first. :|

Back to original question of Exerting more more effort in the higher range.Ever heat water in a teapot? They used to have an alarm built in. there was a hole in the lid. As the water would heat steam would build up inside the teapot.

The teapot would start to whistle. The more pressure in the teapot the faster the steam would leave the teapot, the higher pitch and loudness of the whistle. The hole did not change size only the pressure and the speed of the steam escaping.

Although you can also change the length of vocal folds and resonance shape this principle also applies to the voice.

Edit: Please note that if your teapot surpasses the optimal pressure, the pitch of the whistle will fall apart,deteriorate, loose volume and consistancy. In other words too much pressure is sometimes worse than not enough.

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Sounds about right Bob, you put it more eloquently than I ever could.

It's definitely a loud resonant ringy sound, but it doesn't have a strained quality to it ... it's just loud and can get rather "shouty" but it is well connected where it needs to be.

This also demands great control and tremendous amounts of support and holding back the air, or you can most definitely hurt yourself when belting in this configuration.

Coming from an early or earlier bridge/light mass mentality, this is so much more fun when you really wanna give it your all with passion, but it obviously doesn't fit every song and isn't always needed or preferred so it's good to be able to have both techniques at your command.

power, the one thing i need to get across is when you hit this just right, it cannot become shouty, it seems to get more classical sounding ....and as far as hurting yourself it feels very right.

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Edit: Please note that if your teapot surpasses the optimal pressure, the pitch of the whistle will fall apart,deteriorate, loose volume and consistency. In other words too much pressure is sometimes worse than not enough.

MDEW:

Thank is a very interesting point you bring. So, maybe too much pressure causes my tone to disappear and only air comes out.. Now you've got me thinking..

I just got the video for my vocal cords. I notice I have a lot of thick phlegm which might be the cause... Also, when I get to the point of airiness, maybe it happens quickly but from what I see in the video the cords stay together...

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MDEW just might have written the most perfect analogy for the concept. :) Bravo, sir!

EDIT: And it's what I've felt, too. Whenever I try to sing high, especially when sustaining and using vibrato, the most fatigue I feel is in my abdominal/diaphragmatic muscles, and my brain, from focusing so hard. :D

I finally understand the concept of holding back [for dear life].

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