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just for the hell of it, i tried to sing this song last night.. this way. i was surprised to see that there was a karaoke disc for this song.

here is a perfect example of a song that you can assign to a long term goal to try to sing it.

you have to accept the fact that you are currently incapable of singing a song, and set your sights on working towards it in the future...the distant future.....lol!!!

i was actually holding my own up to 2:58 then it was "game over"....lol!!! no way, jose..not yet anyway......

and i dropped it a half.

so i celebrated i could go with it as far as i did, and vow to do it some day...in the distant future...now back to the scales....lol!!!

has anyone ever done this song? any tips you could share when you sing it?

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All I have heard is how Lou does it. So, I am going to have to get all "Bob" on you, Bob.

How about a sample of how you are doing it? How can anyone help you if they can't hear where you think you are faltering?

(ducking the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune ... )

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Bob - Never heard that song before. He gives a spectacular performance. At 2:58 he starts the higher stuff with a great rasp and distortion. I've thought about his technique lately, and I'm thinking he is singing that stuff lighter than it sounds. I think the rasp that he uses gives the allusion that it is really heavy. He's got the optimal weight up there - just enough to sound heavy while preserving his voice. Because he can do that stuff live without too much fatigue. He continues to amaze me...what he accomplished back then.

Phil - I do the same. I really take my time on songs - 3 months minimum. Picking them is important - because we're going to spend so much time with a song it's got to a great song, something we enjoy.

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thanks for replies everyone...

geno, i used to think that was true about lou being lighter, but i've seen too many live unplugged vids and saw him live so many times where he's just wails and belts his ass off....much more so than singing light.

he's not weighty.....i'd describe it as that chiaroscurro classical delivery in a rock voice..

as i see it, he goes into a slot in his voice, a slot i'm just beginning to discover in my voice.....it's hard to describe....it feels very powerful, very resonant, very tall, and very "right." you just know it instinctively...this is right.

it's as if the voice is shooting straight up but the support has to be greater to light up or energize this slot up.

here's a vid where lou clearly has impressed regis....lol!! check it out. there's a second part which is even better, but they took it down.

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I've heard a lot of people saying things like open your mouth and drop your jaw. Lou seemsto keep his mouth on a more horizontal position. Especially on the higher parts. Have you noticed that? Perhaps some anchoring going on?

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yes, i think he is super skilled at configuring the jaw, the mouth, all of it so that he seriously maximizes the resonance. he know exactly where to send his pressure.

he also seems to shape the vocal tract (with just the right vowel shades) skillfully.

if you study him on "waiting" you can see very deliberate configurations.

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Phil - I do the same. I really take my time on songs - 3 months minimum. Picking them is important - because we're going to spend so much time with a song it's got to a great song, something we enjoy.

Such an important point, here, one that I have ignored so many times. Choosing songs that are believable in your voice.

I have had some dogs, for covers. Yes, I had the range, but my voice may not have sounded "right" with it. So, maybe, one day, I will learn to choose cover songs more carefully.

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thanks for replies everyone...

geno, i used to think that was true about lou being lighter, but i've seen too many live unplugged vids and saw him live so many times where he's just wails and belts his ass off....much more so than singing light.

he's not weighty.....i'd describe it as that chiaroscurro classical delivery in a rock voice..

as i see it, he goes into a slot in his voice, a slot i'm just beginning to discover in my voice.....it's hard to describe....it feels very powerful, very resonant, very tall, and very "right." you just know it instinctively...this is right.

it's as if the voice is shooting straight up but the support has to be greater to light up or energize this slot up.

here's a vid where lou clearly has impressed regis....lol!! check it out. there's a second part which is even better, but they took it down.

Nice light tenor tone!

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Off-topic:

It seems you guys call different things light?

Bob seems to say light more about airy, quite, falsetto-ish. Dan seems to call light more of a lighter placement, where it can still be very full but not as taxing on the voice as yelling it out,more in the pocket,correct?

Wondering for future reference :-)

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Off-topic:

It seems you guys call different things light?

Bob seems to say light more about airy, quite, falsetto-ish. Dan seems to call light more of a lighter placement, where it can still be very full but not as taxing on the voice as yelling it out,more in the pocket,correct?

Wondering for future reference :-)

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Off-topic:

It seems you guys call different things light?

Bob seems to say light more about airy, quite, falsetto-ish. Dan seems to call light more of a lighter placement, where it can still be very full but not as taxing on the voice as yelling it out,more in the pocket,correct?

Wondering for future reference :-)

It does get confusing. Light as opposed to dark. Thin maybe airy, floating,bright as opposed to covered dull sound.

Light as opposed to heavy. Falsettoish as opposed to chesty/yelling.

There are a few others.

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dan, i don't mean to sound derogatory....when i think of light i think of singers like steve perry or david pack (ambrosia) comes to mind......christopher cross, roy orbison.....smokey robinson.....seals and crofts...they are not too tonally distant from a falsetto.ish sound.

it's their vocal weight.

take this example, benny nadones' voice vs. roy orbison's....it's a different weight...a different texture...a different timbre..you can hear a marked difference in the ending.

both great voices:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9xdlucQm0L0

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dan, i don't mean to sound derogatory....when i think of light i think of singers like steve perry

Did you ever stop to consider that Perry was singing in his full voice?

And I never thought of Roy Orbison as "light." High and clean, sure. Resonating like a church bell? Sure. But he was full blast, for what his voice was.

But, of course, he did not sound like Lou Gramm so he "must" be singing "light."

Singing is mental. Listening is mental. Thinking about singing is mental.

My cliches just keep piling on top of each other.

:lol:

I know you love me like a brother, etc., but, etc. ....

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Bob, the difference is larynx height and skill... Roy Orbison simply does not have to lower his larynx so much to achieve the quality that was his trade mark, depth and warmth. :) And not lowering the larynx so much causes more medial compression. The compensation he does when going higher could become the chiaro-scuro you are after, the later video is just the scuro pushed up to try to sound bright...

"chiaroscuro" on foreigner would be really interesting to see.

Compare what old man Pav did on his higher notes:

Listen to the core of the sound, try to set all the resonance aside and compare to what Roy Orbison is doing there.

Of course, the difference in projection and intensity is absurd, but that is exactly what you need to perform foreigner material and make justice to it. Over darkening will not allow that unfortunatelly.

More precisely on "walk" he gives away the secret :P

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thanks for replies everyone...

geno, i used to think that was true about lou being lighter, but i've seen too many live unplugged vids and saw him live so many times where he's just wails and belts his ass off....much more so than singing light.

he's not weighty.....i'd describe it as that chiaroscurro classical delivery in a rock voice..

as i see it, he goes into a slot in his voice, a slot i'm just beginning to discover in my voice.....it's hard to describe....it feels very powerful, very resonant, very tall, and very "right." you just know it instinctively...this is right.

it's as if the voice is shooting straight up but the support has to be greater to light up or energize this slot up.

here's a vid where lou clearly has impressed regis....lol!! check it out. there's a second part which is even better, but they took it down.

Bob - That's a cool unplugged performance. I remember watching both parts when you first posted the a while back. What I see in this video reminds me of what Tony O'Hora was doing in his Steve Perry video. Tony keeps a fairly closed mouth when going high, just like Lou. And the weight seems to be very similar. Tony makes it sound thick by adding a lot of distortion, and he can belt too, but the root of it is a lighter weight. I think you're right that Lou is belting somewhat in parts. I'm just viewing all this through my new lens of establishing a light "base" upon which to grow and belt whenever you want, but the basis is a lighter weight.

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I'm pretty much with Felipe here. The difference in the two videos is mainly a difference in "natural" larynx position and the resulting compression. It is not really singing with a more "weighty" voice imo (at least not a lot).

Maybe it is just me, but what Pavarotti does on the high note in the end still gives me three times the chills than what any rock singer could do. You can just hear that he puts everything he has into that note and uses Bernoulli compression to its maximum potential. That is real weight and power. Rock singing always sounds lighter and more "held back" compared to that (at least to me). But I agree with Felipe that singing Foreigner like that would probably not really fit (and would be insanely hard from a physical perspective).

Classical singing is where the weight is. Rock singing is mostly about light to medium weight and the "percieved" power is mostly about tuning the correct resonance and using mic amplification, maybe even overcompress or distort a bit to make it sound heavier. Imo it is mostly about using light mass and mostly the chiaro (bright resonance) part without too much scuro.

I think the main problem is that it is often hard to distinguish the effects of compression and weight just by ear, especially when you have mic amplification. Weight creates compression, but you can also create compression without adding weight (twang harder). Then there is resonance: If you don't set it up correctly a very weighty sound can sound "thin" compared to a well-resonant, but lighter-mass sound.

The only time when I'm pretty sure that something is heavy mass is usually when it is strongly compressed and at the same time with a dark sound color (just like Pavarotti in the video). In rock singing you often have strong compression and light sound color, where it is very hard to hear if it is weighty or not.

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folks, i hear what you all are saying...thanks for your replies....i'm just probably not explaining myself right.

with lou's voice i personally perceive a depth.......with other voices i don't...i guess i'm wrong to refer to it as chiaroscuro in the literal sense, but i hear a mixture of light and dark in a lot of his singing....when you watch him sing live, i don't think he has an easy go of it.....he looks like he's really putting out.

it is my belief, again, i may be wrong, that some voices have to reach a certain level of intensity or have to do more "work."

even franco tenelli said the same thing....big voices (and i perceive lou as having a big voice) have a harder go of voice training because they have a bigger gap between chest and falsetto.......they have more to move.

i'm getting closer and closer to meeting lou one day, and i hope i could get it from the horses mouth.

here's a video (maybe it's the sound system) but i perceive a mixture of light and dark qualities and you clearly see how much this is taking out of him.

this is light singing?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bkmxoNK4ywE

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I had just accidentally found this video yesterday and was going to post it. Awesome.

The lightness in the sound of Lous' voice is not in the amount of Power he is using but the sound "Color" for lack of a different word.

Thin but powerful as opposed to the Thick Heavy powerful sound of Tom Jones.

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