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Best Vowel Sequence To Tame Passaggio

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Hey all... I have been going CRAZY with vowels... EVERY single one... WHY? Because for ME it helps me focus on what is important.... support/resonance consistency. I try to FEEL that "one-vowel" shape that people keep talking about.

Caruso used to use a scale "Aw-Oh-Oo" on a 5 tone. This would help him manage passaggio. Also I have pillars 2.5 which Used Eh-Uh (PLAY-UHH) which is great depending on timing but I feel "too open."

Recently... I have been doing almost EVERYTHING descending (falsetto down) and using the "Uh/AW" vowel on the way up... occassionally lightly sliding up with "oo" helps me a lot.

I realized with Carusos scale descending from a high falsetto in "Ooo-oh-aw" actually helped but there was one problem... although it felt more "freeing" it was "windy" as hell and lacked twang.

Then I added a humm... "Mmm-ooo-oh-aw" that REALLY helped... then I added "Hmm---ee-eh-aw-oh-oo" and I feel like I obtain BEST possible results that way because the EE and EH help keep twang.

What can I do to KEEP twang... and ATTACK the passaggio ALL-OUT... which vowel sequence will help me get more freedom in passaggio (I feel like I HAVE to hold back or I fall apart) from the TOP-DOWN AND the BOTTOM-UP.

Also... my "ee" vowel has always been strong but now I am opening my mouth more. And my "oo" vowel is becoming powerful as #%#. But I just want MORE freedom coming from the bottom up and more power from the top-down. Hope someone can help with this...

Also the "I" Vowel as in SIT is GREAT for helping me "drink" the sound.

Let's get it!

- JayMC

jay, focus on narrow vowels. (i prefer to call them throat shapes.) when you work the passaggio...the voice has to shed weight and it has to progressively narrow as you ascend.

this is a must, or you'll never get into the top notes. work the "oo" and the tall "ee" first. keep the throat open, support and experiment....

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Appears when singing, and for sure not something you should be looking to have at all.

Take a look at the aria Je Crois Entendre Encore and try to sing the melody along without braking from your full voice (the one you speak with) and at a good loud volume. If you can do it easy, you dont have anything to worry about.

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How do I find this passaggio thing?

Which vowel sound exposes it? Is it only exposed by weird exercises, or when you actually sing, too?

Some of the literature suggests that it is only a nominal point at which head resonance subjectively starts to dominate.

Other literature suggests that the thing is alive and has to be "tamed"?

If you do not expierience it do not look for it. For those of us who do expierience it it is very difficult to get rid of.

Basically it is the change between resonance somewhere between D4 and A4. If you have no difficulties you have already balanced things out and can cause trouble looking for it.

edit: Thanks Felipe. My mistake.

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Yes I could, but what for, you cant understand it from my execution. You can do it just on Ah and if the problem is there it will show. Its just the melody line that is interesting and its one that comes to my mind that hits the problem area. You could use something like Stargazer, or the chorus from Dream a Little Dream of Me in the same way.

Anything that stays around the D4-B4 area will do as long as you stay on full voice/dont brake.

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lol why be even? ask for a few more, I wont do it and you will win :).

D4 is lower than the B4.

C4 is the middle C. C5 the tenor high C. D4 is 2 semitones higher than the C4, or the next white key to it. B4 is one seminote lower than the C5, or the previous white key from it.

What will show the issue is going on legatto around this area, specially when going through the F4.

Those melodies will make it easier to understand.

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Hey all... I have been going CRAZY with vowels... EVERY single one... WHY? Because for ME it helps me focus on what is important.... support/resonance consistency. I try to FEEL that "one-vowel" shape that people keep talking about.

Caruso used to use a scale "Aw-Oh-Oo" on a 5 tone. This would help him manage passaggio. Also I have pillars 2.5 which Used Eh-Uh (PLAY-UHH) which is great depending on timing but I feel "too open."

Recently... I have been doing almost EVERYTHING descending (falsetto down) and using the "Uh/AW" vowel on the way up... occassionally lightly sliding up with "oo" helps me a lot.

I realized with Carusos scale descending from a high falsetto in "Ooo-oh-aw" actually helped but there was one problem... although it felt more "freeing" it was "windy" as hell and lacked twang.

Then I added a humm... "Mmm-ooo-oh-aw" that REALLY helped... then I added "Hmm---ee-eh-aw-oh-oo" and I feel like I obtain BEST possible results that way because the EE and EH help keep twang.

What can I do to KEEP twang... and ATTACK the passaggio ALL-OUT... which vowel sequence will help me get more freedom in passaggio (I feel like I HAVE to hold back or I fall apart) from the TOP-DOWN AND the BOTTOM-UP.

Also... my "ee" vowel has always been strong but now I am opening my mouth more. And my "oo" vowel is becoming powerful as #%#. But I just want MORE freedom coming from the bottom up and more power from the top-down. Hope someone can help with this...

Also the "I" Vowel as in SIT is GREAT for helping me "drink" the sound.

Let's get it!

- JayMC

jay, focus on narrow vowels. (i prefer to call them throat shapes.) when you work the passaggio...the voice has to shed weight and it has to progressively narrow as you ascend.

this is a must, or you'll never get into the top notes. work the "oo" and the tall "ee" first. keep the throat open, support and experiment....

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jay, focus on narrow vowels. (i prefer to call them throat shapes.) when you work the passaggio...the voice has to shed weight and it has to progressively narrow as you ascend.

this is a must, or you'll never get into the top notes. work the "oo" and the tall "ee" first. "aw" is great too. keep the throat open, support and experiment....

sometimes it really helps to get tall with the mouth and draw the lips in a little with the "oo."

that "oo" is an underrated vowel.....

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lol why be even? ask for a few more, I wont do it and you will win :).

D4 is lower than the B4.

C4 is the middle C. C5 the tenor high C. D4 is 2 semitones higher than the C4, or the next white key to it. B4 is one seminote lower than the C5, or the previous white key from it.

What will show the issue is going on legatto around this area, specially when going through the F4.

Those melodies will make it easier to understand.

My bad Felipe :) Kicking disregard what I posted. I will delete the other post to avoid confusion.

Too many people talking to me while I am thinking.

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Didnt even see what you wrote mdew.

There are other notations, the classical notation is C3 - middle C, and C4 - Tenor high C. If you wrote that, you are not wrong either.

Of course the number does not matter much, and thats why the melody and that aria are a good reference to not confuse all this :P.

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My bad Felipe :) Kicking disregard what I posted. I will delete the other post to avoid confusion.

Too many people talking to me while I am thinking.

M,

Don't delete your post(s)..... ????

I hear you >> "Too many people talking to me while I am thinking."

I'm having a rough day, too.... Phone ringing, texts driving me crazy, trying to get things done here.... AHHHHH !!!! :o

Edit : I just KNEW not to start this "text" crap !!! :lol:

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Dan is correct of course.

But Jay, can I ask you something, let's take a look at these posts:

http://themodernvocalist.punbb-hosting.com/search.php?search_id=347103684

What changed in this time? There is a thread in there that is exactly like this one... The "one vowel" and so on...

Is your chest voice working, are you singing something, anything at all and at least trying to make it sound nice?...

Forgive me but it looks like the exact same speech/mindset, just after a longer time period...

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How do I find this passaggio thing?

Which vowel sound exposes it? Is it only exposed by weird exercises, or when you actually sing, too?

Some of the literature suggests that it is only a nominal point at which head resonance subjectively starts to dominate.

Other literature suggests that the thing is alive and has to be "tamed"?

Kickin - there are really two components to the passagio thing. 1) There is the acoustical phenomenon where one of the harmonics of the pitch you're singing crosses a formant of a particular vowel as you ascend. If you don't do something about it your voice will fight you and this can lead to tension and stress - not good. Some singers instinctively do the right thing without even knowing it. If you're one of those you're past the first hurdle. 2) there is a point at which the TA muscle (dominant in speech / chest voice) must yield control to the CT muscle as you ascend. The CT will cause the folds to stretch for higher pitches. This is a very tricky coordination to do without the result being a "break". And again, some singers also do this instinctively. And if you're one of those you've past the second hurdle.

The two components go hand in hand and if you can work out #1 correctly, the TA/CT thing falls in place without having to worry about it.

Most males, it seems, don't do either of these instinctively, and they wind up on this forum trying to figure out why.

Here's a way to experience it. Start on C4 and sing a nice loud and bright "ah". Keep the vowel exactly as is and ascend up a major scale to C5. You'll find it difficult without changing the vowel somewhat.

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I think we don't "gain" range, we simply learn access to all of the range we have always had. Essentially removing impediments to parts of ranges that invite our imagination and desire.

So, let me try it again.

Vowel-ery Bertinelli.

What? Nothing? Man, what a tough room.

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Here is my "ah" vowel attempt.

I am singing into a pillow (neighbours), so it is a bit damped and sounds more closed than it actually is.

https://soundcloud.com/kickingtone/pillowah

It sounds like you are doing what Geno described. And the ah vowel works for you.

As you can hear, I just run out of pitch?

I am not sure what you mean by "run out of pitch" unless you mean you could not go higher. In which case, I would say, continue with the idea that Geno was talking about. That is, let the shift of control happen, don't fight it. Let it truly be instinctual. Sometimes, you can have "paralysis by analysis." To me, it did not sound like you found a limit but ran out of an idea of where to go to next. That's a mental thing. But it's okay as far as sound exploration. Some part of training, whether guided or self-directed, will be more about sounds and mechanical things than a "beautiful song." Even if you later use those effects in a song.

I am a firm believer in following the resonance, following the tone. That is what allows me to be simplistic. True, there are going to be others who think it all starts from certain technique. That you must do it "this way" always. And such an approach may have even worked for them.

Ron, I agree about learning access. It is more about that than about gaining some new physical structure, although muscles and nerves may adapt.

Exactly. And I have long stated that learning about singing is more about learning coordination than building muscle. Or as I like to put it, I get better at singing when I get out of my own way. That it is easier to walk when I quit stepping on my own feet.

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kicking tone, it can be very much about building muscle as well.

all depends on what you're seeking, and your sound and tone goals. you can have all the coordination you want...if you can't keep those vocal folds adducted with appropriate lateral tension and powered with appropriate breath pressure and achieve a balance between the two, you aren't going to get certain notes or certain sounds.

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You can also check out the media site. Manny has a blog there. I have a blog there, too. I have said some of the things you are saying, though not as eloquently. I might know some big words, too, but I seem to do better when I talk like a redneck. :lol:

And I think some of the path for you will bleed over from your thread about whether singing is natural.

Now, as Bob has said, and others will say, if you want to achieve certain sounds or pitches, it will take (whatever regimen and hard work is stated) to get there. I think the key word is want. For example, if you don't care for a lot of rasp or rattle in the voice, working on that, no matter how desired by others, would be useless for you.

However, I am reminded of a post that JCO made in your thread about natural. He watched a tutorial by Daniel, where the instruction was to relax and let your voice go where it is going to go. And found his way to sing the QR song he wanted to sing. And it didn't involve weeks and years of regimented exercises or even a coach counting your reps and pronouncing yes or no. it took about 15 to 20 minutes of releasing impediments he had been holding onto, including how he thinks it "should have been done."

The flip side of that is the chicken or the egg thing. Was it natural or instinctual or was it at least one pointer from someone defining himself as a coach or teacher?

Or just learn it and sing?

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Here is my "ah" vowel attempt.

I am singing into a pillow (neighbours), so it is a bit damped and sounds more closed than it actually is.

https://soundcloud.com/kickingtone/pillowah

As you can hear, I just run out of pitch?

Ron, I agree about learning access. It is more about that than about gaining some new physical structure, although muscles and nerves may adapt.

That was very good. It didn't sound like a bright, strong "ah", but it sounds like you're going right through the passagio area letting the CT take control nicely using a light mass. If you use a lighter mass you don't need to worry about vowel modification as much as if you are singing loudly. This is actually a nice weight in which to build a foundation.

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Its on falsetto.

I guess it's how you define falsetto. It sounded like CVT Neutral without air to me. He starts on like a Gb3 which is pretty low for how I would describe falsetto...and connects all the way up to B4. If I attempt to sing falsetto down to Gb3, it gets very breathy. He didn't sound breathy to me down there.

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Yep, it will be interesting to read a few blogs. I'll be moseying on down some time. I've already seen Mano's website which is really good.

It doesn't take much at all. Just your email addy, which will not be published unless you wish it to be, and a password. Pretty much the same thing you did to get an account in the forum. Any questions or finer points about customizing your media page, you can look up here in the forum, even in this thread, Adolph, the admin. He will sincerely be more than glad to help.

And hey, your pithy style is very eloquent.

It might be an acquired taste, so to speak. :lol:

Pointers are great. They are suggestions, no more. They are not demands. A coach would have to respect my intuition, because I would be using it to assess his pointers against the feedback my voice gives me. I would not allow that to be overridden by the coach. It all boils down to that "natural" thing, and my voice being the boss. It is ready if and when it is ready, not necessarily when the coach is ready.

And if I were a singing teacher or coach and was advising you, that is how I would approach your voice. Which, of course, might set me at odds with others. Like that's never happened before ...

:cool:

I would probably tick off students. Here's the things you should try and now, it's all on you. I accept no responsibility or liability if you stink as a singer or don't progress. You (the general student) cannot blame your failings on me. You want a guarantee? I can give a guarantee in life, if you like. Eat right, get plenty of rest, reduce stress, drink only in moderation and I guarantee, excluding all other illnesses and accidents that some time, between 70 and 100 years of age, according to actuarial tables, you will die. There, now that's a guarantee.

:D

If you do 300 shows a year for 3, 5, 10, 15, 40 years, I guarantee you will have some off nights. And some computer keyboard expert will get ahold of a vid shot on a cheap cellphone with a mic not much bigger than a flu shot needle and pronounce that you have lost it.

But guaranteeing that you will be a rock star singer with some exercises, I am not so sure about that. What makes a rock star singer? Ask Mick Jagger. I pick on him. He's not handsome, never was a pretty boy. Doesn't have a technically great voice or technique. Not even the best singer in my list of admired singers. And he has more money than he can spend in a lifetime.

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