chart wanted

[VideoHere]

hi folks, does any one know where i can get my hands on a handy chart with vowels on one side and what to sing the vowel like listed on the other?

like the "a" in "cake" should be sung with more of a "eh"

[Sheepdog]

Seconded. It seems like there's a specific pronunciation of vowels used for most good singing, but I'm terrible at picking up on this kind of stuff just by ear (I suck at impersonating accents for the same reason) but if it's written out with IPA or something I can get it right away. That's just how my brain works.

(btw, hi guys, first post!)

[Steven Fraser]

Seconded. It seems like there's a specific pronunciation of vowels used for most good singing, but I'm terrible at picking up on this kind of stuff just by ear (I suck at impersonating accents for the same reason) but if it's written out with IPA or something I can get it right away. That's just how my brain works.

(btw, hi guys, first post!)

VIDEOHERE, Sheepdog: its not always the same vowel substitutions. Its rather a slight adjustment, to slightly more open or closed forms, that give the color and resonance that are desired by the singer. Those choices depend on the style being sung.

If, however, you are interested to know the most resonant vowels which are your options, then such a chart was published by Bert Coffin in his book 'overtones of Bel Canto". I'll look that up and post it for you.

[Sheepdog]

VIDEOHERE, Sheepdog: its not always the same vowel substitutions. Its rather a slight adjustment, to slightly more open or closed forms, that give the color and resonance that are desired by the singer. Those choices depend on the style being sung.

If, however, you are interested to know the most resonant vowels which are your options, then such a chart was published by Bert Coffin in his book 'overtones of Bel Canto". I'll look that up and post it for you.

Hi Steven, that would be great! I'm an admittedly terrible singer at the moment and I think singing words exactly like I say them is one of the problems. I'm trying to learn a "better" way of pronunciation for song, and how to improve on this myself... but since I'm terrible on picking up on this kind of stuff just by listening to singers I'm completely lost as to where to begin improving.

Also, as this is somewhat related... is being able to mimic/impersonate certain accents/vowels/ways of speaking a skill that can be improved over time?

Thanks!

[Martin H]

For those who are a bit familiar with CVT - maybe this can be of some help (from left to right: Neutral, Curbing, Overdrive and Edge):

PLEASE NOTE: The lists of vowels below is meant as guides only, and are not precise indications in any language. Make sure you are using the correct vowels by listening to the sound examples in the CVT Sound Library.

Taken from the following source:

http://forum.completevocalinstitute.com/viewtopic.php?t=5420

:)

[VideoHere]

For those who are a bit familiar with CVT - maybe this can be of some help (from left to right: Neutral, Curbing, Overdrive and Edge):

PLEASE NOTE: The lists of vowels below is meant as guides only, and are not precise indications in any language. Make sure you are using the correct vowels by listening to the sound examples in the CVT Sound Library.

Taken from the following source:

http://forum.completevocalinstitute.com/viewtopic.php?t=5420

martin, would you take me through one example, the chart is a little confusing.

[VideoHere]

VIDEOHERE, Sheepdog: its not always the same vowel substitutions. Its rather a slight adjustment, to slightly more open or closed forms, that give the color and resonance that are desired by the singer. Those choices depend on the style being sung.

If, however, you are interested to know the most resonant vowels which are your options, then such a chart was published by Bert Coffin in his book 'overtones of Bel Canto". I'll look that up and post it for you.

thanks steve. i was singing chris issak's "wicked game" the other day and was having trouble singing that long, soft "i" ... it's a softly sung 10-second long light & heady note where you can either run out of breath and/or break up the tone. so i tried singing an "ah" instead of an "i" and it was so much better and connected...

i really need a handy reference chart...i've been reading a lot about vowel modification but the charts aren't as comprehensive as i would like.

[VideoHere]

Hi Steven, that would be great! I'm an admittedly terrible singer at the moment and I think singing words exactly like I say them is one of the problems. I'm trying to learn a "better" way of pronunciation for song, and how to improve on this myself... but since I'm terrible on picking up on this kind of stuff just by listening to singers I'm completely lost as to where to begin improving.

Also, as this is somewhat related... is being able to mimic/impersonate certain accents/vowels/ways of speaking a skill that can be improved over time?

Thanks!

hey sheepdog, we will have none of that in our forum (i'm an admittedly terrible singer).

you cannot think like that. no sir, you've got to have confidence and believe in yourself.....man, that's half the battle!!! okay?

[Sheepdog]

hey sheepdog, we will have none of that in our forum (i'm an admittedly terrible singer).

you cannot think like that. no sir, you've got to have confidence and believe in yourself.....man, that's half the battle!!! okay?

Haha, alright! It's just been beaten into me by family/friends for my entire life, so it's hard to overcome.

Thanks for the encouragement!

[jonpall]

For the first time I ever sung in a studio, doing a few backup vocals, I was laughed at by the drummer and told "don't quit your dayjob, dude!". I let it get to me but then later just forgot about it and stopped letting things like that get to me. But you may need to surround yourself with a bit more positive people. It's also a shame that most people seem to think that singing is something that you're either born with or not.

[VideoHere]

Haha, alright! It's just been beaten into me by family/friends for my entire life, so it's hard to overcome.

Thanks for the encouragement!

gotta write quickly...listen to this one...

i'm 16, in my first band,

(actual conversation)

my mother: "where are you going dressed like a girl?"

me: "mom, i'm off to sing in a my very first rock band...i'm their lead singer."

mother: "you sing? are you serious?"

me: "yes, they say i'm pretty good..so did the nuns in grammar school...remember?"

mother: "no, the nuns just said that so your feelings weren't hurt. who do sound like? can you sing like frank sinatra?"

me: "i really don't sound like anyone in particular."

mother: okay, go ahead and sing right now..let me hear you, so you don't go there tonight and make a fool of yourself...sing "strangers in the night."... go ahead....i'm listening...

me: mom, i don't know that song and if i don't hurry i'm going to be late."

mother: well, i really hope you don't embarrass yourself. people who sing have talent. you really don't have any talent judging by the way you sound when you talk."

till this day i still have to shake off that self-esteem builder!!!

in 1986 i was 2 inches away from a record deal and it fell apart (quickly) basically because we wouldn't let epic change our keyboard player!!!

oh well, after some therapy, i realize life goes on...

[ronws]

My grandparents wanted me to be an engineer or doctor. My mother wanted me to be a preacher. A person that didn't like that I always win our debates on another subject said I sounded like a wounded animal.

Basically, anything I wanted to do with music was a nice diversion, after everything else was done and certainly never meant to be pursued as a passionate interest.

Interestingly enough, my mother liked my version of "Dust in the Wind" by Kansas. But my work on lead guitar? That was "wild tangential crap."

Usually, someone tells me I can't do something, and then I go and do it. But, in other ways, I have been raised to believe what a low piece of trash that I am, ugly, without social value, and that my desires were of secondary importance, at best, a total waste of time, at worst.

But I am stubborn, like my mother. Either one of us could teach mules how to be stubborn.

[kalapoka]

gotta write quickly...listen to this one...

i'm 16, in my first band,

(actual conversation)

my mother: "where are you going dressed like a girl?"

me: "mom, i'm off to sing in a my very first rock band...i'm their lead singer."

mother: "you sing? are you serious?"

me: "yes, they say i'm pretty good..so did the nuns in grammar school...remember?"

mother: "no, the nuns just said that so your feelings weren't hurt. who do sound like? can you sing like frank sinatra?"

me: "i really don't sound like anyone in particular."

mother: okay, go ahead and sing right now..let me hear you, so you don't go there tonight and make a fool of yourself...sing "strangers in the night."... go ahead....i'm listening...

me: mom, i don't know that song and if i don't hurry i'm going to be late."

mother: well, i really hope you don't embarrass yourself. people who sing have talent. you really don't have any talent judging by the way you sound when you talk."

till this day i still have to shake off that self-esteem builder!!!

in 1986 i was 2 inches away from a record deal and it fell apart (quickly) basically because we wouldn't let epic change our keyboard player!!!

oh well, after some therapy, i realize life goes on...

Wow...how brave of you to keep on following ur heart even after such discouragements! Awesome man!!!

[VideoHere]

Wow...how brave of you to keep on following ur heart even after such discouragements! Awesome man!!!

thanks man, but i still have a hard time to this day of accepting compliments.

[kalapoka]

thanks man, but i still have a hard time to this day of accepting compliments.

same here. :)

[Steven Fraser]

hi folks, does any one know where i can get my hands on a handy chart with vowels on one side and what to sing the vowel like listed on the other?

like the "a" in "cake" should be sung with more of a "eh"

Video: Here is an example from Coffin's 'Overtones of Bel Canto'. Its a multi-fold chart. When the thing is folded-out, its about 3. feet wide, and covers the usual singing range of all voice types. It assumes the singer is learning classical pronunciation for singing.

The chart was designed to be used physically on the piano, aligned with the F with the down arrow on the F above middle C for the tenor, and in different places for other voice types. For particular voices, he would (in common practice) slide up or down a bit for the particular voice.

The chart divides vowels into three categories: front, mid, and back, based on where the hump of the tongue is in the mouth, as a linguist of phonetician would, and also the umlauted vowels. Coffin provides word examples for each of the symbols he uses, with are an extension from IPA. After the chart is a bit of interpretation

In general, the best (most resonant) vowels of each type are indicated in Green. When in blue or yellow, the vowel is not as not optimal for the note, but can work. Reds are hard to do, and could be unstable.

Here is the pronunciation chart:

[VideoHere]

Video: Here is an example from Coffin's 'Overtones of Bel Canto'. Its a multi-fold chart. When the thing is folded-out, its about 3. feet wide, and covers the usual singing range of all voice types. It assumes the singer is learning classical pronunciation for singing.

The chart was designed to be used physically on the piano, aligned with the F with the down arrow on the F above middle C for the tenor, and in different places for other voice types. For particular voices, he would (in common practice) slide up or down a bit for the particular voice.

The chart divides vowels into three categories: front, mid, and back, based on where the hump of the tongue is in the mouth, as a linguist of phonetician would, and also the umlauted vowels. Coffin provides word examples for each of the symbols he uses, with are an extension from IPA. After the chart is a bit of interpretation

In general, the best (most resonant) vowels of each type are indicated in Green. When in blue or yellow, the vowel is not as not optimal for the note, but can work. Reds are hard to do, and could be unstable.

Here is the pronunciation chart:

steve, thanks for taking the time to grab this for us. but with all due respect, i was looking to take a few baby steps.. admittedly this is a little over my head. perhaps i can ask you this way?

let's say i write down a few vowels. is there a chart that tells me what to shoot for as i ascend the scale?

for example:

"a" as in father vs. an "a" as "rate"

a simplistic version? if it takes too much of your time don't worry about it.

[Steven Fraser]

steve, thanks for taking the time to grab this for us. but with all due respect, i was looking to take a few baby steps.. admittedly this is a little over my head. perhaps i can ask you this way?

let's say i write down a few vowels. is there a chart that tells me what to shoot for as i ascend the scale?

for example:

"a" as in father vs. an "a" as "rate"

a simplistic version? if it takes too much of your time don't worry about it.

VIDEOHERE: I am happy to help, I know tha have provided may be a bit of overkill, and perhaps overwhelming. Coffin was a very detailed teacher when it came to vowel colors usable in singing.

Coffin's chart will tell you what is the most resonant vowel in each of the three groups, for the various notes, for the voice type. So, to fulfill your requirement, I need to know:

1) The range of notes you want covered

2) Your basic voice type

3) which vowels you want charted. If its /a/ and /e/ (ah and e), then I can extract that information from Coffin's chart and send it to you.

[VideoHere]

So, to fulfill your requirement, I need to know:

1) The range of notes you want covered

2) Your basic voice type

3) which vowels you want charted. If its /a/ and /e/ (ah and e), then I can extract that information from Coffin's chart and send it to you.

steve, thanks for your help.

let's see if i'm a help to you or confusing:

the range would be c4 through f5

i believe i'm a tenor, specifically of the dramatic variety.

the vowels (i hope this is sufficient) a, e, i, o, u, is enough to work on...

and of each vowel the long and short in terms of pronunciation

so:

long a and short a

long e and short e

etc., etc,

the reason i'm asking is i finally "felt" the awesome feeling when you modify an "ah" to an "uh" in the upper range. it felt like a new spot clicked open above my chords (not a passagio feel) so hard to articulate but you get this feeling like you allowed a new section...like i said it's extremely hard to describe but i had a vibrato that just appeared along with it. i had never had such ease with vibrato just occuriing with no help.

sadly, it was a "magic moment" that i'm hoping to make happen more consistently now that i was bitten by the bug!!! (lol!!!)

is that enough to go on?

[Sheepdog]

the reason i'm asking is i finally "felt" the awesome feeling when you modify an "ah" to an "uh" in the upper range. it felt like a new spot clicked open above my chords (not a passagio feel) so hard to articulate but you get this feeling like you allowed a new section...like i said it's extremely hard to describe but i had a vibrato that just appeared along with it. i had never had such ease with vibrato just occuriing with no help.

sadly, it was a "magic moment" that i'm hoping to make happen more consistently now that i was bitten by the bug!!! (lol!!!)

Those "magic moments" are perhaps the most encouraging and most discouraging part of singing, at the same time. It's so frustrating to accidentally do something perfectly, and then not be able to repeat it. :/

[VideoHere]

Those "magic moments" are perhaps the most encouraging and most discouraging part of singing, at the same time. It's so frustrating to accidentally do something perfectly, and then not be able to repeat it. :/

oh man, i cannot agree with you more...that's the goal though, a high percentage of consistency.