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arnel pineda voice changing

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there's no question (journey or no journey) arnel has a great voice.

but lately, there has been concerts where the approach to the notes has changed.

check out as to how he works his way through that difficult section in "lights."

lately he seems to be a little more covered and darker...wonder if this masking fatigue or has he just said to himself....i'm tired of trying to sound like perry.

but boy when he makes it darker it really changes...interesting isn't it?

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Typical example of a great singer who is questioning what he use to do and thinks because the exercises and I mean exercises(unfinished sound meaning the way you are going to perform, kinda like stretching before run, you might twist your leg in a weird position because its going to be in the opposite position for a while so you need balance) he does advocate a lower larynx, that he should sing like that.. Well I'm hear to to spit the truth, and this is the way you hurt the voice not help it. He needs to go back do what he was doing before and not question the openness of the tone. That openness especially in pop music is the right way to do it. With the right amount of closure and support he would be fine.

But exercises and some teachers advocate a low larynx all the time and its just not gonna work for pop it will do more harm than good ( unless you are going to far in the high larynx production, but that was not arnels problem). Alot of times great singers will listen to a teacher because he or she thinks that teacher is so much more knowledgable about the voice however sadly this is not often the truth.. The singer sometimes has much more experience and should trust his own instincts and sound.

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word daniel, i think he slaughtered the song in the first clip or slaughtered is probably the wrong word. But going for those sounds on a song like that is tasteless, like singing backstreetboys operamode.

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he does advocate a lower larynx, that he should sing like that.. Well I'm hear to to spit the truth, and this is the way you hurt the voice not help it.

some teachers advocate a low larynx all the time and its just not gonna work for pop it will do more harm than good

Other than stylistic reasons, why do you believe a lower larynx is harmful to the voice? Haven't heard that one before...

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Other than stylistic reasons, why do you believe a lower larynx is harmful to the voice? Haven't heard that one before...

For various reasons the "low larynx is better" rule can have bad consequences, specially if applied where it should not be. Good singing with LOWER, not low, is USUALLY better, since it decreases the effort, never swallow it down, and specially when singing like this.

But I must say I heard the first video and it seems more of a bad night than a technique change. He is doing the same lower and having trouble with the highs... Is it constant now? Did he say he changed how he sings?

hahha I was expecting to hear Jose Carreras version! \m/ :p

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i didn't do this post to poke fun at the guy, just to show how he has changed over time.

if there was no youtube to refer to, we'd never even know any difficulties unless we attended that particular concert.

youtube is addicting....lol!!!

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Forgive me I'm not saying a lower larynx is more harmful.. It's helpful it has its place in helping someone train, and get over an exaggerated high larynx. But it's not to be overly used in high singing like journey. You won't be able to move freely with your voice if your stuffing it to low.

So in other words like I always say it is all a matter of how it feels and sounds. If it sounds mushed and down your throat its not healthy just because its low

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Yes, sounds like he is getting some advice to reduce stress by covering but that's not working out too well.

Did you guys see the documentary of Arnel and how he got into Journey? Absolutely fascinating - it was quite a long program - lots of footage and interviews. They said their touring was more successful after Arnel joined than originally - sold out more shows - made a lot more money. Their first tour with Arnel seemed even more grueling. And what I noticed is that Arnel really goes for it - which can get him in trouble. He doesn't have cords of steel. Steve Perry's strategy was to sing with the least amount of energy to preserve the voice. Arnel doesn't seem to have that same strategy.

I think this show was recorded when he was burned out vocally.

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Shocker, I agree with Felipe. The 2013 vid makes me think he was having a tough night and rather than crash notes, he carried it lower.

No offense to Bob or others that bring in these vids about how a singer has "lost" but, dudes, until you have walked a 15 month tour in his shoes, you are second-guessing something you know nothing about.

It is one thing to spend a month or two, recording just one song for our review section. Following all of your warm-ups and exercises. And re-recording your vocal track or patching it until it is just right. And then spending another week or two editing the recording until it sounds like, what? CD perfect? It is another thing to sing that song after a 15 hour flight, 5 hours sleep, and some cold chicken mcnuggets, (or something like that) then go on and sing songs that reside mostly in the passagio of most light tenors.

Arnel rocked it well, in both videos.

Now, I can get off my soapbox, just for a moment, to pull out a splinter.

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Wow, haven't really listened to much of Journey lately, but on those covered notes he almost has the Adam Sandler "Opera Man" sound going on.

I saw them back in 2010, and he didn't sound like that. He really didn't sound much like Perry either, whereas he would approach his songs with lighter mass phonations, Arnel really powered through them.

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if you watch a lot of journey 2013 videos you see he has clearly gone to, as geno was saying, to a more covered sound. the keys are down a half......

but here's the thing...if you remove the "steve perry sound reference" buried in all our minds, and just listen objectively to his vocals, he still sings well, albeit not like perry.

it only get thought of as crappy if we harbor the steve perry lightness perception.

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I thought I had said this in other threads but I always thought Arnel has a fuller or "heavier" voice than Perry. Just as good a singer. But different, even as he has some tonalities that may seem familiar. I could always hear the difference. I also think Arnel is less nasal than Perry and no, I am not saying there is anything wrong with nasal or that Perry was uber-nasal. Just that Arnel sounds "less" nasal than Perry.

And I like how Arnel sings the songs. I like his energy, his performing style. He definitely has a different way of engaging the crowd.

In the end, he is actually a full member of Journey, not just a hired gun.

But, to be fair to Bob's initial point,maybe Arnel is singing 1/2 step to 1 whole step lower. Still plenty of stuff in the passagio to wear out most people.

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  • 4 weeks later...

Guys he's been suffering from Laryngitis due to Acid Reflux he said it in one of the interview. It happened to me as well, I use to sing those journey songs with no problem until acid reflux and stress occur and my voice changed dramatically due to vocal fatigue and abuse. What happened was, I pushed it (I have no choice i have to sing in the club to make a living by that time, because i lost my job) then it got worse It leads to Supraglottic squeeze (Other type of Muscle Tension Dysphonia its a learned habit my Voice Therapy said its can easily get corrected but she is wrong)..Its like having a knee that got injured gradually until you started limping that requires your leg muscle to push more than normal in order to compensate for the weakness, you can regain your knee strength back but your leg muscle got used to over exertion, now you have to rehabilitate that leg muscle to a normal function) . I am still dealing with it until now and its been 4 years now ( I even join multiple karaoke contest and won most of the time to make money in order to pay for my bill, but i paid the price dearly) , I have some improvement now but my voice changed dramatically (It became more raspier and quickier to get fatigue than normal - I remember singing 6 hours straight before with no voice strain whatsoever) . It Turns from Darker Tone (Stronger vocal) to Lighter Tone (Weaker vocal) he has the same voice change as well, I think what happened to him was he keeps on pushing the notes so hard trying to mimic perry which weakened his voice box so his voice paid the price because of vocal abuse. If he don't rest his voice for a while, one way or another it will catch up with him and he will end up having an vocal issue to deal with many years to come, there are some occasions where i heard his voice cracked in the middle of the journey song this happened to me as well when i sing the song ALONE BY HEART (embarrassing but show must goes on) i sang that song hundreds of times with no problem but due to my vocal weakness it cracked, I used to sing SHE'S GONE by STEEL HEART with no issue before but now it's a different story i can still sing it but i have to use different technique.

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You don't need to change your tech if what you were doing in the first place is good. You just need to figure out the reflux issue(what's causing it etc). That is all.. Usually changing the tech when it was fine in the first place messes you up. I have had reflux bouts as well, I still take Zantac every night out of fear though I should stop. But I still sing the journey stuff and of course it's not easy but my technique is fine. You just need to figure out the reflux or the technique and you and arnel will be fine.:)

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If it's LPR (silent reflux) you guys are talking about, let me just tell you that an overhaul of your diet, eating habits will 100% make it go away and you don't need to take any medications which may cause other nasty side effects over time. It was a nightmare for a while and took some time to get it pinpointed and properly diagnosed, but I dealt with it and altered my diet and when and how I ate and the reflux went away without a trace.

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i agree though i have a drink at night here and there(i love my bourbon or tequila) so i take the zantac and sometimes chew a couple gaviscon to be double sure no problems. And some people have it severe and or a hiatial hernia(which i have) so extra precaution helps and ive taken ALOT worse than zantac in my life and that didnt kill me.

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I also suffer from silent reflux which has me currently struggling in the 5th octave, and utterly unable to squeek out a falsetto C6 or so. I only started the dietary changes on Monday and I'm already feeling better, but obviously not 100% yet.

I've also had one "bad" meal so far, and most likely my family will get pizza tomorrow for dinner so I'll have a few pieces, but my plan to combat this has to 1)limit the pizza/bad food to one time a day, no snacking on leftovers later and 2) immediately chewing some tums as soon as I swallow that last bite.

Good plan?

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I also suffer from silent reflux which has me currently struggling in the 5th octave, and utterly unable to squeek out a falsetto C6 or so. I only started the dietary changes on Monday and I'm already feeling better, but obviously not 100% yet.

I've also had one "bad" meal so far, and most likely my family will get pizza tomorrow for dinner so I'll have a few pieces, but my plan to combat this has to 1)limit the pizza/bad food to one time a day, no snacking on leftovers later and 2) immediately chewing some tums as soon as I swallow that last bite.

Good plan?

As you're just starting out I'd highly recommend to make sure your last meal is 3-4 hours before you go to bed.

Most of the damage happens when you sleep/lay down while your stomach is digesting and the digestive acid shoots up pass your esophagus and into your throat. By waiting you minimize the action going on in your stomach when you do eventually lay down. It's not easy adjustment at first, but a necessary step to deal with this.

Also read this to educate yourself

http://www.evamor.com/2012/10/dr-koufmans-two-week-induction-reflux-diet/

If you follow these steps 100% and not cheat, you will conquer this thing.

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As you're just starting out I'd highly recommend to make sure your last meal is 3-4 hours before you go to bed.

Most of the damage happens when you sleep/lay down while your stomach is digesting and the digestive acid shoots up pass your esophagus and into your throat. By waiting you minimize the action going on in your stomach when you do eventually lay down. It's not easy adjustment at first, but a necessary step to deal with this.

Also read this to educate yourself

http://www.evamor.com/2012/10/dr-koufmans-two-week-induction-reflux-diet/

If you follow these steps 100% and not cheat, you will conquer this thing.

I've implemented "don't eat 3 hours before bed" for a few months now. It's hard for me to go 100% with the diet currently, at least not until I get a job and live on my own so I am fully responsible with what I buy and eat.

I've been trying to go 80 or 90% with the diet so far, I'm hoping that my youth and the fact that the voice doctor said I have some signs of reflux but perfectly healthy cords can allow me to cheat a bit.

Honestly I wish I just had regular (non silent) reflux, sure when it's occurred like twice in my life it is absolutely hell but at least I could easily go "this food made me hurt, better not eat it" instead of just noticing my singing's been affected.

And obviously I'm going to try to stay away from the drugs, but if I have to, I'll not use the PPI's; thanks for the tip Bob.

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Yup, Arnel DOES have reflux issues, but he's got it under control. I think this stuff that he's doing now is from his teacher. If you seek out the Rascal Flatts/Journey show, he sings the Rascal Flatts stuff GREAT, but does that odd covering thing ONLY on the Journey tunes. It's really odd and I've noticed it this past year. I don't think his voice is in any kind of 'trouble' or anything, I think it's just a different approach that his current teacher has laid on him and it could be something that he's been advised will help him while on the road. Now that Journey's off the road for a bit, he's working on solo stuff and also some Christmas stuff. The guy's a great dude, I've talked to him several times and he's such a good, humble guy.

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