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If a bass were to sing Bruno Mars...

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I have seen and heard examples on the internet of people learning to speak below C2. It is said that anything you can speak you can eventually sing.

In the examples the texture was not what is expected from an actual Bass singer.

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It's weird, about low notes.. When I started singing, I had low E as my lowest chest note. As I sang more and more and got better and better at it, it seems that my low notes are gone xD My lowest note now is a low G. This is odd I reckon xD

I spend most of my time singing in either my low range or in falsetto (falsetto is beautiful and I have so much agility there). I have a much fuller low end now than before, but I do not get as low.

Basically, going lower is about relaxing more where as going higher is the opposite.

I do firmly believe that having a solid low and mid range is paramount to being a good singer. There are so many famous metal screamers (not as in screamo but 80's heavy metal) that have no bottom at all and it just feels disconnected to the rest of their voice.

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It seems that thinning out your vocal cords and singing higher is alot easier than extending your range lower and getting a true Baritone or Bass sound.

Has anyone here developed a Baritone tembre through exercises?

I find that just as you can thin out out the voice you can add weight to it and then switch back and forth between multiple shades and varying degrees of weightiness to suit what you're trying to do.

If you have a natural tenor timbre it doesn't mean that adding weight will make give you baritone oomph all of a sudden but it will add perceived weight to your voice and make that tenor timbre slightly heavier and thicker.

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i was born with a low speaking voice so never had any interest in going lower than that. i can already hit like c2's or whatever they are. I have heard you cannot increase the lwer end of your range but i'm not someone who likes to say never :P maybe it is possible but it's not something i've ever worked at or even gave a minutes thought. I was always trying to figure out how to get past my break at E4 that was always my stumbling block for 5 years LOL having said that, i don't like the term "increasing" range, because you are born with a set amount of range and any increases are just you UNLOCKING it. you UNLOCK range.

I completly disagree on the unlocking... And also on that you are born with a "set" range... I admit im a rangefreak moreso when i started out than now. My voice has never been anything special or unique, but just throigh doing exercises ive hit notes faar off the piano at times.

There has even been humans that can vocalise above human hearing(georgina brown) and i dont see that being special, just an insane ammount of time spent in the higherregisters.

I also dont see any natural or evoulutionar benefit to these "skills" why would nature intend for us to be able to make birdsounds?

I think it's more about our two vocalfolds are able to become extremly flexible through training.

With more understanding of the human body we are able to control the folds better and thus hit higherpitches than originaly intended.

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Man, what a really good thread.

I am probably the one of the few who had a desire or inkling to do something low, mainly to get into a few songs that have some really low spots. Song that I admire and "feel," though I thought I lacked the spot in my voice to get to them. Not disagreeing with Jens, this time, but "my voice" was the key to getting there. How do I make the pitch with my voice. Never mind how someone else does it or, more importantly, how I THINK he (whoever "he" is) is doing it. Get my voice to make the pitch, however it will do it. And like Snejk, for me, it is about relaxing some parts, controlling other parts. While I may be letting my voice box relax as much as possible, I am also slowing the air speed or reducing pressure. Control of the exhalation is always engaged with singing, at least for me.

And others spend most of their time to increase the upper end of their range, an equally valid pursuit.

I also agree that even with classical singing, there are different timbral values and even different views as to how to type the voice. One school of thought defines the voice type by where the passagio is. Others define it by the lowest possible note you can make, regardless of volume, then add 3 octaves.

Whereas, I think a lot of opera roles fall in the 2 octave range Felipe mentioned. It doesn't matter what your dynamic range is, can you carry the tessitura demanded in the role with endurance and repeatability for the length of the evening and the frequency of the shows in a week, for however many weeks or months the show runs? It also depends on the casting director. You could have 3 or more lyric tenors applying for the role and only one will get chosen for the lead. Maybe a second, just in case the lead gets sick or arrested or whatever. And it doesn't make the ones not chosen any less "lyric tenor." As I have learned, the voice descriptions are more about the role than the singer. When are you a lyric tenor? When you are cast to sing that kind of role in an opera.

Outside of that, who cares? The audience will buy what they want to buy. What if a basso wanted to sing a Bruno Mars song in the original key? If he can do it and repeat it as necessary and if the audience buys it, what more could you ask for? Can the basso sound like the original? Maybe. Time will tell. What if the basso just does not sound like him? The song could still be good. And some artists do better by totally re-arranging their cover of the original. I like Marilyn Manson's cover of "Sweet Dreams." Dolly Parton's cover of 'Heaven" (by Collective Soul.) Dio's cover of "Dream On," so iconic that newer covers are of that version, rather than the original. Johnny Cash's cover of "Hurt," which inspired me to go to the lowest places of my voice. Definitely went out of my "fach" and got away with it, stone cold. I changed the melody line, forgot a section of verses. But you guys are a forgiving audience and bless you for sticking with me.

When I listen to covers, sometimes I am listening to hear if they sing the original line. If they are, then I am listening for pitch accuracy. But the best covers, I don't even think about it. Because the tone is right for the song, regardless of the melody arrangement. Does the voice sound believable? A lesson I learn, as well, many times. For I also agree with Benny. Not every song is written for every voice. And I have found that while I may do well on one song by an artist, it doesn't guarantee that I do well on another song by the same artist. And so, if just seeking applause, I do best with songs that fit my voice or vice versa. Which is not every song every written. Or every genre ever attempted. But it's okay to try those things, even for a laugh, as long as you don't get hurt.

I also agree with Phil. Singer training is not about extending or increasing range. You already have the awesome ultimate voice. The training is to get out of your own way and unleash the beast within. I described it as getting out of my own way, learning to walk without stepping on my own feet. It takes time and concentration. How much time? However long it takes. How much concentration (in training)? All that you can muster. That was the secret of Caruso, regardless of what someone thinks about his voice type. The biggest thing I learned from the 3 books I have read about him, including his own, is the laser-like focus he brought to his craft. He did not have a set time of practice, though others benefit from that structure. But whenever he practiced, nothing else in the world existed except for that "thing" (whatever it was that day) that he was working on.

Yes, a basso can sing like Bruno Mars, by means of a few different perspectives. Time and diligence is the key, the magic pill. I joke about having a deal with Satan to have the folds of destiny. It is a deal that has taken decades and admitting many times that I am wrong. And picking myself up, dusting myself off, and getting back in the race. "That's life, and I can't deny it ..."

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  • 1 month later...

i was born with a low speaking voice so never had any interest in going lower than that. i can already hit like c2's or whatever they are. I have heard you cannot increase the lwer end of your range but i'm not someone who likes to say never :P maybe it is possible but it's not something i've ever worked at or even gave a minutes thought. I was always trying to figure out how to get past my break at E4 that was always my stumbling block for 5 years LOL having said that, i don't like the term "increasing" range, because you are born with a set amount of range and any increases are just you UNLOCKING it. you UNLOCK range.

Well, it's similar to say a cello. Theoretically the high range of the instrument is unlimited, though obviously, it's harder and heavier if one were to perform a high melody on a cello than on a viola.

You can't change the low end, though. The low C2 is the lowest note of the instrument. You could detune your cello, but that's a radical step and before you know it, the tone would be so vague, similar to a voice's vocal fry.

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Well, it's similar to say a cello. Theoretically the high range of the instrument is unlimited, though obviously, it's harder and heavier if one were to perform a high melody on a cello than on a viola.

You can't change the low end, though. The low C2 is the lowest note of the instrument. You could detune your cello, but that's a radical step and before you know it, the tone would be so vague, similar to a voice's vocal fry.

Yes, very nice analogy.

I was always under the impressions that basses are, well, basses, baritones are celli and tenors are violas ;) The girls are the violins obviously ...

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"and a half of usable range on top of that, and haven't bothered to take it higher beacuse i don't sing anything that high."

I did bother and for me it keept going higher and higher until it became unintresting. It never stopped... I stopped cause who cares about range if it's not appliable to singing?

It's nothing magical the folds are tissue they can be stretched and stretched.

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i'm convinced....

if you really work at it, you can do just about anything with your voice.....i find there are a lot of singers who don't go all out sometimes to get there....

they think they are but they're really not....... something could easily be standing in the way and they may or not even be aware of it.....psychological issues, fear of damage, fear of change, fear of success.....

i see it all the time in the karaoke bars.....you have these singers that just play it safe, they're so fearful of being thought of as straining, or of pushing that they just sit vocally in one spot.....they do what they do well, but you never see any growth from them.

i'm so glad to have pushed and strained and struggled because while i was i realize now i was actually building too...maybe not correctly, but there were residual benefits that came to me.....

i truly believe you can exercise wrong at times and still make gains.....

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Im terribly sorry, but limitless is very far from reality.

Take an easy song, lets say Breaking All the Rules. Sing it on the orivinal key, then one octave lower and one octave higher. Does it still sound good, does it still retain the dynamic content? No?

And this song does not even use much of the scale... Try doing it with Nessun Dorma :).

Now play it on the piano, transpose it around, does it loose tonal quality? Do you hit any limitation regarding dynamics and expression figures?

Do you really have 2 octaves of that in your voice? Thats a lot already :)

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well it depends, who determines what range to count? There are no such rules... Singing is an artform ...

The sounds you can make, thats your range it's as basic as that.

What you are trying to do is "grade" sounds, wich can be good but also very individual. As it's about taste.

Ofc there is personal limits but thats connected to skill and how welltrained your voice is. If you can use all registers in the voice your voice will be huge...

Then tell me this, what makes one sound better than an other? And if an other person disagres with you, why does that make you right and him wrong?

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Jens, but I just asked, is it still good?

We could say that atonal music does not have to follow the old harmonic rules present on pop songs for example (which is really not one bit modern, but still catching up with ideas that were around over a century in composition). Does it make sense to ignore what is expected and sing Breaking all the Rules using something other than the 12 tone division? A 4/4 song with how many chords, 5?

Context is part of the deal and we do use our opinions and taste. It does not matter, there would be big changes that make such transposition totally different than how it goes on an instrument that does have all this usefull range.

Or not, in which case transposing the melody as I propose will sound almost the same.

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I dont honestly know where your getting at with your example and how it sets up limits? :P

Ofc there will be limits to soundcolors up high cause of the vowelmerge up high if thats what your aiming at.

So basicly what your trying to say is, if a guy/girl with huge range like mariah carey/mike patton cant sing breaking bad in each one octave of their five octave ranges it does not count?

If your range is that wide it's very very uncommon you need to use it all, thats applies if you got a 2-3 octave range as that is already alot.

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i'm convinced....

if you really work at it, you can do just about anything with your voice.....i find there are a lot of singers who don't go all out sometimes to get there....

they think they are but they're really not....... something could easily be standing in the way and they may or not even be aware of it.....psychological issues, fear of damage, fear of change, fear of success.....

i see it all the time in the karaoke bars.....you have these singers that just play it safe, they're so fearful of being thought of as straining, or of pushing that they just sit vocally in one spot.....they do what they do well, but you never see any growth from them.

i'm so glad to have pushed and strained and struggled because while i was i realize now i was actually building too...maybe not correctly, but there were residual benefits that came to me.....

i truly believe you can exercise wrong at times and still make gains.....

Bob, how about letting the world hear some of those gains of yours? :) You already sounded good before. I know that you're a perfectionist, but remember that even "perfect" singers like Lou Gramm, Paul Rodgers, Freddy Mercury, Jorn Lande, David Coverdale, etc. have off days - so don't fear to post yourself singing. :)

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Yes ofc, but thats not the discussion. The discussion is about the limits of range. Just because patton cant sing nessun dorma in the sixth and seventh octave still dont take away that he vocalises in that range

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You have two ends of the spectrum: your voice is how it is, versus your voice can be trained to an unlimited extent. Obviously the answer lies somewhere in the middle.

I've found that people who liked my voice when I first started singing (I was terrible) still like my voice now (as I have improved a lot), and people who didn't like my voice don't like it any more than before, with very few exceptions.

On the other hand, I can sing much more demanding songs with much greater expressivity, so those people that always liked my voice, like it a lot more. This is actually probably a different topic but I thought I'd drop it here.

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