Tips for ascending lines from chest to head with rasp

[jonpall]

Hi guys. I find that sometimes I have a hard time singing ascending lines from my chest voice through the passagio into head voice if it's a rock song and I want to sing with a slight rasp. I tend to lose the rasp as I get to the passagio and higher, open up my throat TOO much and get too shouty and strain to much. Not always, but regularly, sad to say.

Got any tips for this? As I approach the passagio and higher, what do you think I should modify in my throat to succeed. There are probably more than one ways to do this but if you know of a way that works for you (assuming you can do it), please share.

Thanks.

[Marcus]

I have a slight tendency to oversing in chest, and pull a bit too much weight up. Especially when using grit and distortion. Would also like to see some thoughts on this subject. Earlier I found it easier to use distortion in headvoice, but now it's the other way around - way easier in chest. Quite tough in mixed voice, and the transition up to head while using dist is hard.

With my band now I stay quite low, not really singing much at all in head voice. It's high belt and some mixed voice for the most part, when I go higher. But I've started using a lot of distortion with the band. I like it myself, and the guys in the band like it as well. Would be sweet to throw some headvoice in there too, and I should really work on keeping the grit intact while ascending.

[Danielformica]

When I'm singing rasp on songs that are lying the passagio which are most classic rock and 80s metal stuff . What I do is sing the lower stuff with more air like I'm an Italian gangster telling a secret( I was trying to think of something) then as the pitch raises and cords stretch I keep that air flowing through. Now is this totally healthy no but it's not damaging either just don't over do it and as time goes on you will get better at it and it becomes easier just make sure you can sing this stuff clean as well without rasp, then you will be coming from a more correct setup

[ronws]

When I'm singing rasp on songs that are lying the passagio which are most classic rock and 80s metal stuff . What I do is sing the lower stuff with more air like I'm an Italian gangster telling a secret( I was trying to think of something)

That made me think of Marlon Brando. "I want you to meet my associate, Guido. He's going to make an offer that you can't refuse."

[jonpall]

Thanks guys. Any chance that you guys, Phil, Daniel or anyone, could do a video on this subject? Would be a cool idea since a lot of people fail at doing this.

[MDEW]

Jonpall I know exactly what you're talking about. Practice doing headvoice exercises where you pull the headvoice DOWN the registers without going into chest and really BRIGHTEN that headvoice tone like CRAZY you will find grit is easy to get like that.

When this is easy and well developed, you want to slowly start swelling in some chest while keeping that headvoice grit. easier said than done. you will feel that you lose the grit instantly in order to get more chest.

AFTER A LOT OF PRACTICE you will find you can access this grit while MIXING in your chest as you move through the passagio.

When you say really "brighten" headvoice do you mean distort by over twanging? or by bringing the tongue more foreward ?

[MDEW]

What I think of as being twang is like the sound of diving airplanes from old war movies. Over twanging would be taking that sound and adding a little more squeeze and holding back the air a little more.

The sound is similar to the sound you used in your video. . I should have watched that first.

I know what you mean about using text instead of hearing the sound. There are too many different words that mean different things to different people. Robert may call that sound overlay distortion, Ken Tamplin calls it compression. A lot of people will tell you to lean into the sound.

It makes more sense when you can watch someone trying to learn it for the first time and see how the teacher guides him towards the sound.

[VideoHere]

warning to all my tmv friends:

you're gonna hear a lot more of this from me from now on folks......lol!!!!!

so much of this begins with the mind.

so much of these things are mentality driven...you have to start with the understanding of simply the intent to add these accoutrements....

that's how i feel. start with the mental side first.

for example, if you want to do a distorted scream.......you have to mentally gear up for it...you must remove any hesitation or fear. it's when you're tentative about it that you end up in trouble.

i'm not a distortion or grit type of guy, but i read in so many books how you must set it up and just go for it.

will the grit and distortion

[jonpall]

Intent is important but it's only a small part of the whole picture because tons of singers intent all day long to become great but struggle.

[Danielformica]

Just remember to try and sing it clean comfortably then add the rasp. If its easier a bit higher Then place it there and then bring that placement down. And when you Goto your "head" it still has to be chesty to be raspy or its gonna sound like a fake Brian johnson thing. The sound comes from your chest resonance always, don't lose that as you ascend. The rasp could start as a scratchy vocal fry if you want but don't lose the chest resonance.

You need to find it on some phrase in some song where you can do it and then put that feeling in ever phrase. But if you can't sing the phrase normal then your not ready for rasp

[VideoHere]

Intent is important but it's only a small part of the whole picture because tons of singers intent all day long to become great but struggle.

no man, it's deeper and more comprehensive than i'm indicating.

it's really, really getting to know how the voice really works...

[VideoHere]

glenn hughes

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OJj55722FdY

[Martin H]

In my opinion, it's simply about knowing how grit is produced, and then how to apply it. :)

[jonpall]

I'm having interesting success with keeping a constant arch in the middle of my tongue...

[Marcus]

Good thoughts in this thread, thanks everyone for chippin' in (and Jonpall for starting it)! Love the clip with Glenn Hughes. He's a monster singer, been listening a lot to his work on HTP lately. Especially loving that first cd he did with Joe Lynn Turner.

[MDEW]

I'm having interesting success with keeping a constant arch in the middle of my tongue...

the middle of the tongue is raised as with the ng sound? Can you clarify this arch?

[jonpall]

Phil, let us know when you're created a video for those exercises you mentioned above .

MDEW, yes, you're right about the tongue arch and the ng sound.

[jonpall]

good idea i'll get on it. coincidentally i did upload one yesterday but it's not about doing those headvoice exercises i mentioned above of course. but you may find something in there that sparks an idea for you.

You mention "leaning in". How would you say that differs from simply "increase volume"?

FYI, I had pretty good success with rock singing last weekend during a live gig. When I fail at rock tenor stuff (well, not fail per say, but use way too much effort), is when I open up my throat too much for high notes, i.e. darken the sound too much.

[benny82]

You mention "leaning in". How would you say that differs from simply "increase volume"?

FYI, I had pretty good success with rock singing last weekend during a live gig. When I fail at rock tenor stuff (well, not fail per say, but use way too much effort), is when I open up my throat too much for high notes, i.e. darken the sound too much.

A good way to prevent that is to always keep a decent "smile" (or vertical embouchure as they call it now at TVS). This way it is almost impossible to "over-darken" the sound. I have the same problem very often BTW ;-)

And what you are doing is not "opening your throat" too much, it is lowering your larynx too much. I know some teachers identify "open throat" with low larynx, but in most cases it is more of an image for a phonation that is "not pressed" and balanced, which can be done with a high larynx, too.

Darker sound color usually goes hand in hand with more mass, at least when you are not singing falsetto (in that case the darker sound goes hand in hand with more loss of air).

[jonpall]

Good stuff Benny. Since one of my early vocal programs was SLS, it makes sense that my larynx wants to fight me and stay low . Especially since my band's program has a variety of pop and rock songs so I can't really sing all high notes in all songs like Axl Rose :)