Will i hinder my own learning?

[ljcii]

Hi, i recently just started on singing success but i haven't quite mastered the technique yet, so i cannot get the joy i used to get when singing along to my favourite songs with the half-learnt technique. Thus when i sing along to my favourite songs i just pull chest and stuff, will it affect my singing success training?

Also, when pulling chest i realised that the singing success programme kinda allowed me to reach higher with greater freedom. Is that just placebo?

[Snorth]

Hey there ljcii!

I'm not that into SS, but what I do know is that SS is not for singers who wish to sing with great volume. The pulling chest warnings are way overblown. You just gotta use the right vowels as you go higher. Here's a clip of me hitting A4 with a volume that definitely would be called pulling chest. http://www.box.net/shared/unqpadf0mu

But SS is quite okey when it comes to singing at medium and low volumes.

Oh and btw the clip is not perfect, I had just woken up when I recorded that But it gets the point across.

[jonpall]

Here's something that you could try and might help you: While you're in the middle of one of those Singing Success exercises, sing some random line from some random song with pretty much the same feel as you had for the vocal exercise. That's a good way to link exercises to actual songs.

[ljcii]

@jonpall, i'm frequently doing that, and i can't sing my favourite tunes normally so i revert back to pulling chest. With my half-mastery of ss my voice flips into a kind of weird voice with a lot of vocal frying or head voice.

@Snorth Hmm, whats better for singing loud volumes then? Singers like we the kings and the all american rejects, do you know how they do it?

[jonpall]

You might also want to check out products like Jamie Vendera's Raise your voice and the book "Complete Vocal Technique" or even Mark Baxter's "The rock 'n' roll singer's survival manual". There are other supposedly good products out there but I don't own them.

[jonpall]

But since you already own Singing Success and want a more powerful "mix" sound, check out this clip that might help you:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j0CvItiNMsA

[Snorth]

@jonpall, i'm frequently doing that, and i can't sing my favourite tunes normally so i revert back to pulling chest. With my half-mastery of ss my voice flips into a kind of weird voice with a lot of vocal frying or head voice.

@Snorth Hmm, whats better for singing loud volumes then? Singers like we the kings and the all american rejects, do you know how they do it?

I checked out a clip from We The kings here

and this guy mixes overdrive and curbing freely. Overdrive is the technique I used in my last clip and it's used in the verses and on some words in the chorus like "Wait" "Sky" "Day" "Truth", listen and you will hear that truth is actually pronounced "TrOHth" . But as I said there was also some curbing, you could hear it in the chorus on "Heaven can" because you could hear how he reduced the volume just abit and used more closed vowels. Curbing is what SS would call mix and if you wanna hear someone who is king on that go check out Stevie Wonder.

So to sum it up, if you want the power this guy has, learn Overdrive and Curbing. You could check out the books that jonpall recommended, and also see this website http://vocalcoach.dk/uk/onlinecourse/

[VideoHere]

I checked out a clip from We The kings here

and this guy mixes overdrive and curbing freely. Overdrive is the technique I used in my last clip and it's used in the verses and on some words in the chorus like "Wait" "Sky" "Day" "Truth", listen and you will hear that truth is actually pronounced "TrOHth" . But as I said there was also some curbing, you could hear it in the chorus on "Heaven can" because you could hear how he reduced the volume just abit and used more closed vowels. Curbing is what SS would call mix and if you wanna hear someone who is king on that go check out Stevie Wonder.

So to sum it up, if you want the power this guy has, learn Overdrive and Curbing. You could check out the books that jonpall recommended, and also see this website http://vocalcoach.dk/uk/onlinecourse/

while i'm no instructor or professional voice coach ..i can tell you i work hard at this.

you are looking to produce a powerful full voice, (i.e. high notes in full voice) you can also try strenghtening from the bottom up...

mandatory requisites:

be warmed up before trying

use good breath support

open relaxed throat

sing with a comforatble but loud volume

no pushing or straining

sing full voice octave slides starting on c4 on an "a" as in rate vowel. if you do this exercise faithfully over a period of time, (be very patient) you will extend the range of your full voice over time. it works for me.

lunte, jendera, allen, murray, and kain are my favorite resources.

[Snorth]

sing full voice octave slides starting on c4 on an "a" as in rate vowel. if you do this exercise faithfully over a period of time, (be very patient) you will extend the range of your full voice over time. it works for me.

lunte, jendera, allen, murray, and kain are my favorite resources.

That vowel is one of the overdrive vowels, you are on the right track. It's the same vowel as in "Wait" "Day" "Hey" "Away". The other vowel is harder IMO and is the OH as in "Go!". But that's probebly because that diphthong doesn't exist in swedish. :)

[ljcii]

wow @ all the great responses!

What i like about myself pulling chest is that there is a ring to it and the problem precisely is that i can't reach the chorus of most songs. Most of the time i feel really tired after half of the songs.

So my understanding from reading that website is that this is a more metal kind of singing?

i will do more research on this.

Thanks all!

Oh and is it possible to master more than one technique or will the mastery of more than one technique affect the muscle memory?

@videohere, i cannot hit 1 c5 with when i pull chest though, what can i do?

[Mr Bounce]

Pop punk singers are almost always tenors that pull chest way up, and flip into falsetto when they can't hit the high notes properly. I love pop punk, but the singers aren't exactly great role models lol. If you really want to sound like this, then SS will help but it won't take you all the way. The end goal of SS is a strong mix, not what these pop punk guys do. Just my opinion :)

[ljcii]

Hmm Mr Bounce, so are you saying that cvt will help more than ss here?

I just want to be able to sing along to my favourite tunes but i want to sing it well haha.

They can pull chest to a very high range which really makes me wonder how. The all american rejects lead singer starts as low as me but he can pull chest to alot higher and i'm wondering if those singers are born with it or is there technique involved.

[kalapoka]

ljcii...please give SS more time. It takes a while for any program to give you benefits. You should stick to it, practice daily and never judge your voice too early. Just keep at it for some more time. Which disc are you in now?

[ljcii]

I am only at disc 5. I think i am beginning to bridge my gap more efficiently now, but while the above posts do make me feel like cvt is the right thing for me, i do intend to listen through ss and try to master it. Do you use ss too?

[Mr Bounce]

I am not familiar with CVT, so I can't say. A big reason I don't think SS will help you sing like those bands is that I saw a video where Brett talks about the fad of modern rock singers pulling up a constricted chest voice that he believes won't have the lasting power of classic vocalists who use a more mix-oriented registration like Bono. Whether we agree or not doesn't matter, but judging from his opinion, you could probably say that the goal of his teaching/programmes is not to sing in the style of a pop punk vocalist.

[Snorth]

I love pop punk, but the singers aren't exactly great role models lol.

See this is something interesting to discuss. Forcing sound ideals on people because of different taste in music. This is something that vocal teaching have done for too long and must be removed. If a guy wants to sing punk then that's what he should learn how to sing. Not opera, not R&B, not jazz but punk. The guy from We The kings had a nice healthy sound in that live clip I posted, I can only see good coming from having him as a role model.

Oh and Mr Bounce I know you didn't mean it that seriously, but i just saw your comment as a good way to jump into this subject. :)

[Mr Bounce]

Hehe, I agree that we shouldn't force our ideals on others. One should definitely emulate those singers whom one wants to sound like, but always keep in mind that if you copy them too much you may learn their bad habits as well as their good ones!

[analog]

I am not familiar with CVT, so I can't say. A big reason I don't think SS will help you sing like those bands is that I saw a video where Brett talks about the fad of modern rock singers pulling up a constricted chest voice that he believes won't have the lasting power of classic vocalists who use a more mix-oriented registration like Bono. Whether we agree or not doesn't matter, but judging from his opinion, you could probably say that the goal of his teaching/programmes is not to sing in the style of a pop punk vocalist.

I'll have to disagree GREATLY here. Bono "pulls chest" all the time. Perfectly healthy when done correctly(as Snorth has stated.) Absolutely not getting argumentative here as I think the "mix" sound can be used GREATLY for a lot of styles. It's the extra punch that you will get from metal modes(Overdrive/Edge/MLN w/ loads of twang in high part in CVT.)

[ronws]

I agree. Let the person sing in the style that they want. On the other hand, it must be remembered that the techniques of a certain style will not guarantee that you sound like the singer you intend to emulate.

A really good example is my own. I was performing "Dust in the Wind" for my father-in-law and he thought I sounded like Luka Bloom, especially as he sounded on his classic song, "Ciara" (pronounced "keer-ah".) So, here I am singing a song sung by Steve Walsh and sounding like an irish folk tenor. Funny, in an odd sort of way. I should record that song and see what others think. Or, I should record "Ciara" and see if I sound like Steve Walsh.

[gno]

I think there is a healthy way to sing just about any style you want. Catherine's research in her CVT program this idea. And think of all the professional ventriloquists and impersonators out there that can do amazing things with their voices. If you are looking to emulate punk vocalist I would say that the CVT program has a lot to offer. They cover a ton of different possibilities - and it's done in a way that won't hurt or damage your voice.

[ljcii]

I can't get my hands on the cvt book yet from my country but i've been looking around the net for more information. Is there anywhere i can find how curbing is done safely?

@videohere is this all that is required?

"mandatory requisites:

be warmed up before trying

use good breath support

open relaxed throat

sing with a comforatble but loud volume

no pushing or straining"

Personally i have been singing above my speech level bridge by pulling chest for quite a while now already, do you call that curbing? I will still look through ss and see if it helps.

[analog]

ljcii,

Singing Success program is pretty much geared towards building "curbing." They call it "mix" voice.

Try whimpering like a puppy, whining like a child, wailing, moaning like you have a stomach ache, sobbing, etc. That will give you the correct sensation for curbing/mix voice. Try to do it lightly at first and don't worry about pitch, just play around with the sensation.

[ljcii]

Oh, i see. I was reading around the cvi forums where i got a little confused. Thanks to everyone here for the help!

This guy here uses head voice at the first chorus but mixed voice at the subsequent chorus right? I would be really happy if i could do that with mixed voice/curbing haha.

[ronws]

On the first chorus, he is using falsetto, not so much for the tonal effect of falsetto, but for the low volume required for a soft beginning to the song. Later, yes, he is mixing in the chorus. It's head voice, either way as even on the later choruses, he is mixing head voice (it sounds curbed) with chest to get the louder vocal volume he needs to match the other instruments and to provide the urgency of the message he wants to convey.

[VideoHere]

"dust in the wind" is a tougher song to sing than it sounds...walsh, another idol of mine.