Rehearse songs I can "almost" sing with my band?

[jonpall]

Question:

Do you guys think there is value in adding a few "tough" songs (singing wise) to the list of songs my band rehearses on a regular basis, even though I still can't really do the song justice - yet?

I'm talking about songs like f.ex. "Sweet child o' mine" and "You shook me all night long". When I sing these songs with the band, I do better than a few months before, but my vocals on those songs still aren't good enough, IMO, to play them during a gig. Singing those songs at home is obviously easier than with a band.

I was wondering if there is any gain in singing them regularly during band practises, even though it sounds borderline horrible and the other band members might think I'm butchering the classics. If I sing them mostly with a clean, twangy sound (metal-like-neutral or mln in CVT terms) and then experiment with distorting a few words here and there, perhaps in a matter of few weeks or months I'll be able to sing them both with and without distortion and fairly well.

What do you think? Should I perhaps only sing those tough vocal songs at HOME and only try them out with the band until I think I can do them extremely well? I'm thinking that one day (today, really) I have to kind of jump into the deep end of the pool and try to sing those songs WITH a band - the ultimate test, even though I sound crappy at times and my hope is that gradually they'll be "presentable" in front of a live audience. Until then, rehearsing those songs will just be considered "playtime" for me and the band, because they won't be included in the setlist until they're really solid, vocally.

Do you guys think this is a bad idea? Sorry about the wordy post.

Cheers,

jonpall.

[jonpall]

I think I simply NEED to sing those difficult songs - fairly crappy - WITH the band, for a few weeks/months if I'm ever going to make them sound good - with the band. Agreed?

The lines are coming at you fast and there's less time to breathe, you need to be aware of twanging enough, not pulling too much chest, but no sounding TOO weak for those high notes. I was doing all those mistakes yesterday with my band. So either, in time, those mistakes will automatically get fixed because I rehearse them enough times, or they'll just continue to be problems, I don't know.

And this requires the other band members to be willing to spend time rehearsing songs we might not be playing live for many months. But as long as the majority of our songs are something I'm comfortable with, I think they'd be ok with it.

[VideoHere]

this is a good question.....i guess it would have to depend on how you feel, meaning your gut feel.

i am learning "sweet child of mine" but i dropped the key just a half down and it made a world of difference for me and is likely to be inperceptable to the audience...

you're right..that's a tough song to do because you've got the height and the twang in full voice or it sounds like crap.

[jonpall]

After thinking about it a bit, we decided to play Sweet child a half step HIGHER than the original, because then we play it the same way GNR play it but they tune down a half step. That makes the highest note in the song an E5 and not Eb5, but hey, a rock tenor should be able to sing that note, right? Brian Johnson, Robert Plant and Sammy Hagar did/do that all the time. In the future, we might bring second guitars that are tuned to Eb just for those songs, I don't know.

[VideoHere]

After thinking about it a bit, we decided to play Sweet child a half step HIGHER than the original, because then we play it the same way GNR play it but they tune down a half step. That makes the highest note in the song an E5 and not Eb5, but hey, a rock tenor should be able to sing that note, right? Brian Johnson, Robert Plant and Sammy Hagar did/do that all the time. In the future, we might bring second guitars that are tuned to Eb just for those songs, I don't know.

jonpall, you can always work up to singing in the offical key as well. remember tenors come in lyric and

dramatic, light and heavy-voiced varieties.

as long as you faithfully work on your range extention exercises it will likely come (in time).

don't get stuck in that "i can't sing that high, therefore i suck mentality."

[analog]

jonpall,

most bands do it that way for obvious tuning reasons. I actually forgot that it was half step lower .

I think Sweet Child is a much bigger bitch because to do it like Axl, means singing it with a very very twanged and distorted sound(which would be an extremely different set up than what you are most probably doing for the rest of the show.) Or...you can belt through it, which sounds cool too, but certainly takes more work. I've sang it in Edge, but am now using a distorted twanged curb which feels easier and sounds very cool when mic'd.

Bottom line, I don't think you will get away with metal like neutral in a live setting. Obviously will be fine for the top notes...but the tessitura sits on the A below High C which means MLN will typically be too soft that low in the range.

Also, what is happening in the "live" situation vs. recording at home? This is confusing the hell out of me because you sound freakin' AWESOME with your recorded stuff.

[ronws]

Go ahead and work the song, such as "Sweet Child of Mine" into your set. Here is Fergie from the Black Eyed Peas singing it with Slash at a concert at his birthday party.

She is not distorting but she is twanging. Also, she is not using the gutteral stops that Axl used. She is using soft labial stops which do not stop air but are aspirant sounds, such as "w" to allow her to change pitch cleanly.

So, You could do the same. Twang it to get the pitch right. Worry about distortion later, if ever. I would love to hear your band do this song and I would expect you to sound like jonpall and, by the way, you have a great voice, as it is.

So, yeah, incorporate the "harder" songs. It will certainly help you grow. In fact, even in the original version, I think there was less distortion than say "Civil War" or "You could be mine." Don't be afraid to sing this clean.

[kbsebastian]

To compete she should have sung it two octaves up.

[ronws]

To compete she should have sung it two octaves up.

I was going to ask what you meant but really, it doesn't matter how she did the song, this thread is about jonpall and his band doing the song. I was just trying to offer an example. It wasn't meant to be a critique of Fergie. And actually, she is singing it in the recorded key. So, I'm not sure what going up 2 octaves is going to achieve, if that were possible.

[jonpall]

analog, thanks for the tip about using twanged curbing. I think you're right. There are several things that tend to happen to me from time to time: A) I start to pull chest, I go into a weak falsetto tone with a rattle-like distortion (kind of like Brian Johnson in very bad form), C) I start to lose my breath because things are happening fast. But often I sing it well and then I like the sound. As far as what's happening in live situations vs. recording at home, well in some of those recordings of mine, I've edited out mistakes like when I lose my breath or something, because I did many takes, just as singers always do in the studio. But for some takes, there were no editing. It's also the fact that I'm not used to my high notes coming out of the speakers over a loud band and the sound sometimes strikes me as strange. I need to get used to it more and I think that will only happen if I allow myself to fail a million times with theses songs in front of the band at rehearsals. I'm also starting to make my vocal exercises at home more and more difficult and incorporate songs into the exercises as well. Cheers!

[analog]

It's also the fact that I'm not used to my high notes coming out of the speakers over a loud band and the sound sometimes strikes me as strange. I need to get used to it more and I think that will only happen if I allow myself to fail a million times with theses songs in front of the band at rehearsals.

That's a great quote. I know exactly what you mean. Makes me think of CVT's one step up method(increasing metal in a live vs. recorded setting.) Not sure why it should be that way(assuming band stage volume stays under control)...but it is. I would modify that to say that for rock, adding distortion will accomplish the same thing. I'm thinking it's about aural intensity?

[jonpall]

I just came from a rehearsal in which I used that CVT "one step up method" - which would mean going from overdrive straight to MLN as you go up in pitch and maybe even skip curbing alltogether It seemed to work well in many cases (where the melody hovered around E4-G4) but for those tough songs (in the C4-E5 range or so) I tended to pull chest and get too tired when adding distortion. And you can really only do those songs justice with distortion. That's my opinion, at least.

So maybe some air is still leaking, in which case I'm not sure what's the best way to fix that. Pushing down as hard as I can with my support has sometimes worked for me and sometimes it just constricts my throat. Twanging a lot sometimes works but sometimes the sound gets too thin that way. Oh well - just thinking out loud :)

[VideoHere]

respectfully, is it possible you might be "overthinking" your vocals?

let's go back to the days before there was cvt and ss, and all of this......a lot of this was trial and error, intuitive risk taking, and a lot of hard work........