Newbie Question: Seems like a step backward...

[Jeran]

Hello, All.

My name is Jeran, and I've been lurking here for a few weeks.

I'm a tenor, I suppose, but my voice breaks right about Ab4. I am a classic "chest puller." My band has been on hiatus for the better part of 4 months, due to personel changes, so I decided to use the oppurtunity to really work on my voice. I'd been working with Signing Success for some time, and gradually moved on to Mastering Mix. I purchased Robert Lunte's Pillars yesterday, and am heartily looking forward to working with it.

Anyway, it's been a few months since I've actually done any real singing out, but I've done at least an hour a day of vocal exercises with SS, and MM. Quietly, I can pretty much anything, and I've got a good foundation, vocally.

Tonight is the band's first rehearsal in months, and as I drove around earlier, I practiced the songs. And now I'm a bit worried. My voice cracks considerably earlier than it did, with less volume. I don't really have the power I need while singing quietly, and I am now hardly able to eak out the songs that were pretty easy a few months ago. Is this normal? With all the vocal work, what's the deal? I can do the exercises well, but actually applying them to a song is getting me nowhere. I used to be able to sing up to Ab4, A4, Bb4, but now I'm cracking around G4!

This is my band, and my vocals, by the way: http://myspace.com/mojomusicsd

[VideoHere]

Hello, All.

My name is Jeran, and I've been lurking here for a few weeks.

I'm a tenor, I suppose, but my voice breaks right about Ab4. I am a classic "chest puller." My band has been on hiatus for the better part of 4 months, due to personel changes, so I decided to use the oppurtunity to really work on my voice. I'd been working with Signing Success for some time, and gradually moved on to Mastering Mix. I purchased Robert Lunte's Pillars yesterday, and am heartily looking forward to working with it.

Anyway, it's been a few months since I've actually done any real singing out, but I've done at least an hour a day of vocal exercises with SS, and MM. Quietly, I can pretty much anything, and I've got a good foundation, vocally.

Tonight is the band's first rehearsal in months, and as I drove around earlier, I practiced the songs. And now I'm a bit worried. My voice cracks considerably earlier than it did, with less volume. I don't really have the power I need while singing quietly, and I am now hardly able to eak out the songs that were pretty easy a few months ago. Is this normal? With all the vocal work, what's the deal? I can do the exercises well, but actually applying them to a song is getting me nowhere. I used to be able to sing up to Ab4, A4, Bb4, but now I'm cracking around G4!

This is my band, and my vocals, by the way: http://myspace.com/mojomusicsd

i'm not on myspace nor do i wish to be..can you send another link?

[Jeran]

I don't believe you need to have a myspace account to view a myspace page, if the page isn't blocked. I don't have any security settings on that page, so you should be able to go there, regardless. You'll be able to hear that I'm definitely a chest puller on those old songs.

[VideoHere]

I don't believe you need to have a myspace account to view a myspace page, if the page isn't blocked. I don't have any security settings on that page, so you should be able to go there, regardless. You'll be able to hear that I'm definitely a chest puller on those old songs.

for some reason, i can't open it

[Jeran]

That's strange. It works perfectly on my end, even when I'm not signed in to myspace. Some browsers don't respond to links without "www" in them, so try this one: http://www.myspace.com/mojomusicsd. If not, maybe try copying and pasting the link into your address bar.

[ronws]

Excellent work."Another Night" and "Memory" had excellent subject matter. "Straightjacket" made me think of the best of Bon Jovi. You rocked my socks off. I have no socks upon my feet right now, thanks to you. You're singing in most guys' passagio. As for higher range, twang it. Get up behind the sinus, use the back of the tongue for support. Most people think when they finally hit that range that it sounds thin but it's not. It's supremely resonated. And you have the voice that can do it.

[analog]

Dude,

great ad for laser hair removal

My first question is: when you recorded the songs(on myspace)...how did your voice feel? Any pain or discomfort?

Second question: how would you define chest pulling?

Third and final question : how long have you been doing SS stuff(was it before, during or after the recording?)

I have a very good idea with what's going on...just need a little more info.

[Jeran]

Firstly, thank you guys so much for the compliments on my voice, it really means a lot to me.

Secondly, when I recorded these songs, I was 21, and really didn't have much practice in singing, other than high school drama, and recording these songs was tough. They're right at the top of my range, and I wasn't doing much more than yelling on the high notes. That's what I define as chest pulling. The "tried and true" method of taking a diaphragmatic breath, and giving 'er hell. I felt strained, and horse after each take. The songs were simply too high. This was a situatuon where I came in and wrote the lyrics and melodies the night before I recorded my vocals on the band's pre-existing backing tracks.

Singing theses songs did become much easier after actually rehearsing them, but still not as easy as I'd like. I'd started Singing Success a few times in high school, but never got past the 3rd CD. I'd start and stop. When we recorded, I hadn't done any singing in at least 6 months. After we recorded, I got better, did some gigs, and then we lost our drummer. In the 5 or so months after, I continued to work, and saw some major improvements, but my range I gained isn't translating to the music, and I'm having trouble singing the songs, now. I'm leaving in about 10 minutes, to our first rehearsal in months, and I'll let you guys know how it goes. Until then, I'd really appreciate any comments. Thank you all, very much!

[gno]

Jeran - Your band sounds awsome and so does your voice! Sounds like your are pulling chest (or Overdrive in CVT terms) up there in the passagio area, which can be stressful on the voice if not done correctly. Seems like SS may be getting you to sing Mix up there, or in CVT terms - Curbing, which will be lighter than Overdrive. But you are used to singing your songs in Overdrive, which you aren't practicing (or practicing correctly), and that may be why you are losing a litttle control.

[kalapoka]

I have a very good idea with what's going on...just need a little more info.

Looking forward to hearing your thoughts, Analog.

[Martin H]

Hi Jeran,

I can tell you now for sure that the exercises you are doing now will never help you sing those songs as you used to months back. The reason is actually quite simple: You have to practice what you want to sing. You say that you practice the exercises quietly....well then that is what you'll become good at...singing quietly! And also you'll become good at singing the exercises...but not singing songs! Why?.....because you are not practicing singing songs! - It's like you want to learn how to play football but you are practicing playing chess - does that make sense? :)

[analog]

Jeran,

cool. I would say you are in the same position as a lot of us on here. That is EXACTLY what I went through starting out(hell...I sang like that for years before the internet exploded and opened everything up.)

Hi Jeran,

I can tell you now for sure that the exercises you are doing now will never help you sing those songs as you used to months back. The reason is actually quite simple: You have to practice what you want to sing. You say that you practice the exercises quietly....well then that is what you'll become good at...singing quietly! And also you'll become good at singing the exercises...but not singing songs! Why?.....because you are not practicing singing songs! - It's like you want to learn how to play football but you are practicing playing chess - does that make sense?

Martin H. has helped me over the last 2 years...so I'm glad he shared his wisdom.

Jeran - Your band sounds awsome and so does your voice! Sounds like your are pulling chest (or Overdrive in CVT terms) up there in the passagio area, which can be stressful on the voice if not done correctly. Seems like SS may be getting you to sing Mix up there, or in CVT terms - Curbing, which will be lighter than Overdrive. But you are used to singing your songs in Overdrive, which you aren't practicing (or practicing correctly), and that may be why you are losing a litttle control.

guitartrek has made some amazing advances in his voice and I also agree 100% with his response.

I would just add...you need to decide artistically what kind of sound you want. If you want a "mixed voice" sound...you are gonna have to alter the sound you achieved on your recording. If you liked the sound you used, but want to get rid of the hoarseness and constriction you felt, you will need a different approach than Singing Success.

Other than that...look forward to hearing how rehearsal went.

[kalapoka]

Jeran - Your band sounds awsome and so does your voice! Sounds like your are pulling chest (or Overdrive in CVT terms) up there in the passagio area, which can be stressful on the voice if not done correctly. Seems like SS may be getting you to sing Mix up there, or in CVT terms - Curbing, which will be lighter than Overdrive. But you are used to singing your songs in Overdrive, which you aren't practicing (or practicing correctly), and that may be why you are losing a litttle control.

Guitartrek - what program are you using for your voice? CVT?

[Jeran]

Thank you guys so much for the responses and help. It's really awesome to know that there are people on the net who are as interested and dedicated to singing as I am.

Guitartrek - Thank you for the compliment! I will be purchasing the CVT book, but it'll be a month or so, as money is a bit tight, what with life and the band, and taking care of my mother. I'm looking forward to finally understanding the terminology that everyone uses. Hopefully that will teach me the right way to sing in Overdrive.

Martin - It makes total sense. I've been practicing the exercises quietly because if I don't the exercises sound a little forced, and SS makes it absolutely clear that you should never force it. But it's also absolutely clear that the exercises, while helpful aren't getting me to where I need to be. Would you recommend using SS and MM at a louder volume, or should I work with another program entirely?

Analog - Personally, my favorite singers are Steven Tyler, Steve Perry, and Freddie Mercury. I don't sound like these guys, but I very much aspire to certain qualities of each.

I'm really going for a clean vocal tone throughout my range. I love Judas Priest, but I'm not going for that pharyngeal head voice sound. I recently heard "Time For Miracles" (

) by Adam Lambert, and this is EXACTLY the vocal quality and range that I want on our ballads, specifically, as I have sort of a musical theater voice, and his upper range, from D5 on "Tiiiiiime!" is so clear. Exactly what I'm going for.

For our rock songs, I really want Steven Tyler's stylistic rasp, but not as raspy in the upper ranges. I'm starting to get a pretty good handle on my head voice, but bridging it and bringing that chest quality to it is proving difficult. I can create a thicker head tone, but it's not where I want it.

I bought Robert Lunte's Pillars the other day. Is this the program that has the potential to get me to where I'm wanting to go?

Also, we'll be writing our new album in about 3 weeks, and intend to start recording in two or three months. Are there any tips you guys can give me that can get me considerably closer to my desired sound by recording time? I know the voice is a never-ending quest, but this next album HAS to be great. Our label depends on it. Am I way out of line in thinking I can get there well enough to record in 3 months? I'm willing to put in the work, but I fear it'll take a lot longer than I have.

[chele1000]

Interesting page cover... Good singing....nice sound. I would recommend the Pillars and if you can swing it financially, some online sessions with Robert Lunte if you are on a time limit. He does great work.

On the song "Another Night (I can't remember)" I was waiting for a 'Sabastian Bach (Skid Row) type of chorus. That's what I hear in the music. Just my opinion of course!

Good luck with the writing and recording. Please share once it's done. :)

[Jeran]

Michele, when you cite Sebastian, do you mean a more head voice, screamy type chorus? I LOVE Skid Row, and their self titled and Slave to the Grind albums are amazing, vocally. But Baz is pretty hard to do.

[ronws]

Jeran, it's okay that you have crappy finances. So do I. In fact, I think most people, if they could afford a private vocal coach, would do so.

And it's good that you have a goal, such as singing like Adam Lambert. And I think that you can. You won't sound exactly like him but you can use the same techniques. He primarily uses twang, sometimes with the crying sound. But most, controlling the tension of the vocal folds and twang for resonance. It actually produces quite a clean sound and that's how he can hit those notes that it seems like only dogs can hear.

But don't be afraid to use mixed voice. In fact, on "American Idol" during the week they had Slash (Guns and Roses, Velvet Revolver, Slash) he was astounded by the range and even suggested bringing some of the parts down, for the variety of the song, lest Adam follow the same path of early Rob Halford, of always singing in the high register.

As for Steven Tyler's rasp, you may or may not get there but I think you can hit the range. I used to play and sing "Dream On" and I have made people flinch because I hit that note strong and clean, as opposed to Tyler's raspy note. That is, while it is worthy to have a goal, be happy with the sound you get at whatever range.

As for the techniques of getting the mid and high range with timbres ranging from grit to supersonic clean, this is the place. If you have a chance to watch of video of Robert Lunte's explanation of what TVS does, I think you will find that it is what you are looking for.

A number of people here aren't interested in singing choir or doing talky sounding country songs like Randy Travis. A lot of guys here want to hit the stratosphere like Rob Halford, Geoffrey Tate, Lou Gramm (for a flexible soul-type of blues singer), the operatic blast of Bruce Dickinson, the flexible articulation of Ronnie James Dio. I think you're in the right place.

[Jeran]

Ronws - Thank you very much for the encouragement! Great call on the Lambert thing. I'm not a big fan of his, but I really admire his vocals on "Time For Miracles." In my opinion, Adam oversings considerably, and uses his high range entirely too much. While I want the range, I don't want to use it as much.

I'm happy with my natural tone, as I don't feel I sound exactly like too many other singers, but I'm not happy crapping out at an A4. I'm really glad to hear that you think I'll be able to get where I'm going with the Pillars.

And "Dream On" is actually my favorite song. Steven Tyler was the first rock singer that ever made me sit up and take notice of rock, and he's still my vocal idol today. But I do think he's a bit limited to rock or pop, because he does have that natural rasp. I'm more impressed by clean, almost operatic tones in the upper ranges, and while I can very easily hit Tyler's famous screams at the climax of "Dream On," the "Sing with me..." parts are a bit high. I'm "pulling chest" on those parts. If I could learn to bridge and connect, as Robert puts it, I should be able to sing that song no problem.

Once again, thank you all for the responses!

[ronws]

Ronws - Thank you very much for the encouragement! Great call on the Lambert thing. I'm not a big fan of his, but I really admire his vocals on "Time For Miracles." In my opinion, Adam oversings considerably, and uses his high range entirely too much. While I want the range, I don't want to use it as much.

I'm happy with my natural tone, as I don't feel I sound exactly like too many other singers, but I'm not happy crapping out at an A4. I'm really glad to hear that you think I'll be able to get where I'm going with the Pillars.

And "Dream On" is actually my favorite song. Steven Tyler was the first rock singer that ever made me sit up and take notice of rock, and he's still my vocal idol today. But I do think he's a bit limited to rock or pop, because he does have that natural rasp. I'm more impressed by clean, almost operatic tones in the upper ranges, and while I can very easily hit Tyler's famous screams at the climax of "Dream On," the "Sing with me..." parts are a bit high. I'm "pulling chest" on those parts. If I could learn to bridge and connect, as Robert puts it, I should be able to sing that song no problem.

Once again, thank you all for the responses!

I know what you mean about straining on the "Sing with me" part. It was relaxing to hit the high note but the "sing with me" was difficult until I could do more mixed, by backing off the air pressure and using a little more head resonance.

And true, I don't believe in singing high all the time. And my wife absolutely loves the baritone and occasional bass note that Tate uses on "Silent Lucidity.

Another good singer that could vary the pitches and was comfortable singing baritone and tenor and saving the high notes for accent was David Byron of Uriah Heep. He is not their singer anymore but the "new" singer sounds very much like him and sings the original arrangements.

I understand how a performer can change everything for you. As I have said elsewhere, Guns and Roses album Appetite for Destruction got me to work on my voice seriously. I don't sound like Axl Rose but I can hit every note he can and that's good enough for me.

I was thinking that you might try A4 in head voice completely, even falsetto, until you are comfortable with that pitch and then, change or mix resonance until you are producing the volume you want. When I am working on a note that I want, I approach it with the cleanest sound I can manage. Other times, I will make up my own high parts to a cover song and it usually comes out clean, not sounding like the original singer but I am happy to hit that note with whatever my sound is.

[gno]

Kalapoka - I bought the Ken Tamplin program and have used it for the last 6 months. It has helped tremendously. I did buy the CVT book and it has been a great reference.

[HolaChau]

Don't know much about technique, but I've listened to the songs on your myspace and they are really nice, congrats, looking forward to hearing more.

[Jeran]

Don't know much about technique, but I've listened to the songs on your myspace and they are really nice, congrats, looking forward to hearing more.

Thank you!

Another question for you guys: After singing for half an hour or so, I lose my head voice. Does anyone else experience this? What causes it, and how can I retain my head voice?

[gno]

Jeran - You must be constricting, and creating excess tension causing your muscles tire out. You need to get on a work out program and gradually build stamina the right way. It takes weeks or months and you need to be practicing correctly. I know what you are going through. You need to know when to stop singing - if you feel a tickle, or uncomfortable in any way - Stop. Do not practice through it. The saying "no pain no gain" does NOT apply to voice. You can sing with a lot of distortion too, without hurting your voice, if you do it correctly.

[Jeran]

Guitartrek - That's a weird thing, because I really don't feel pain in my throat when this happens. Fatique, sure, but not pain. That's what I don't get. We were doing Nightrain by Gn'R last night, and I usually don't have problems with the higher parts, as I just sing them in head voice, but last night it was a VERY scratchy, almost shriek-like annoyance, and other than that one song, which we don't ever even jam on, I don't generally sing in head voice at all. But perhaps that's why I don't last long with it.

[VideoHere]

That's strange. It works perfectly on my end, even when I'm not signed in to myspace. Some browsers don't respond to links without "www" in them, so try this one: http://www.myspace.com/mojomusicsd. If not, maybe try copying and pasting the link into your address bar.

great vocals and great songs my friend.