Secret Signals Of The Voice

[Matt]

Men's voices may predict strength

Posted: 10:11 AM ET

By Elizabeth Landau

CNN.com Health Writer/Producer

Some guys sound tough - and according to a new study, that may a good way of predicting whether they really are.

Results in the current Proceedings of the Royal Society B found that people can accurately evaluate the upper-body strength based on men's voices from four different populations and language groups. The voice samples came from the Tsimane of Bolivia, Andean herder-horticulturalists from Argentina, and college students from the United States and Romania.

Researchers recorded body size and strength measurements from women and men in each of these groups. These participants also reported how many fights they had been involved in during the last four years.

Then, undergraduates from the University of California, Santa Barbara, rated the voices on physical strength, height and weight. For the sample of male voices from the United States, raters assessed "how tough he would be in a physical fight."

The study found that, for the sample where data were available, the higher the perceived fighting ability, the more fights the man in the voice sample had reported being involved in during the last four years. It is not known how many fights these men won, but previous research suggests that "more formidable individuals are those more likely to engage in fights," the authors wrote.]

For the rest of the samples, regardless of language spoken in the speech samples, participants rating the voices reported mostly accurate predictions for physical strength for men, but not for women. There was no significant difference between how good men and women were at evaluating the voices.

The results support the idea that the human voice, especially the male voice, has cues of physical strength, and that humans have evolved to be able to predict fighting ability based on those cues. This would have had great benefit to human ancestors, who may have used this information to their survival benefit - for instance, in choosing whom to fight with and whom not to confront.

Update: The study did not determine specifically what qualities in the voices were associated with greater strength. Researchers found, however, that pitch and timbre were not explanatory factors. In other words, contrary to what you might expect, lower pitch was not associated with greater perceived strength.

Editor's Note: Medical news is a popular but sensitive subject rooted in science. We receive many comments on this blog each day; not all are posted. Our hope is that much will be learned from the sharing of useful information and personal experiences based on the medical and health topics of the blog. We encourage you to focus your comments on those medical and health topics and we appreciate your input. Thank you for your participation.

Posted by: Elizabeth Landau - CNN.com Health Writer/Producer

http://pagingdrgupta.blogs.cnn.com/2010/06/21/mens-voices-may-predict-strength/

[ronws]

I'm not sure what that study is supposed to accomplish. Bon Scott, no matter how much he wished, could not produce a low, mean, tough voice. In the song, "Jailbreak" he sings, "I had a friend/ up on murder..." That was as low as he could go. But he used to get into bar fights.

Axl Rose speaks in a low baritone, almost bass, and he was not afraid to jump off the stage into the crowd to take care of a problem.

Sebastian Bach's voice is a very raspy baritone, almost middle of that range, but he has jumped in to defend friend Axl from an angry person.

My speaking voice is not real low or high and actually my speaking voice is quite soft. And once, in a sparring match with another guy who had a 4th degree black belt in Judo and a 2nd degree black belt in Tae Kwon Do, I put him on his keister.

But, do we assign a certain strength to voice? How many of us thought Ronnie James Dio must be a giant, only to find that my mother, at 5' 7", probably stood taller than he did?

David Lee Roth, with a deep sonorous speaking voice and standing at 6' 1" or 6' 2" has a second degree black belt in Kenpo Karate. He had to have body guards so that his liabilty would be limited.

[Jens]

Well your speaking voice being how it is is not by anymeans an indication on what vocalfach or range you possess.

quite the contrary, youve been "blessed" with the speakingvoice you now use by mimicing your sourroundings in most cases this involves one's parents.

If youve had a dominant mother for instance or only been growing up around women you speaking pitch tend to be lighter and higher in pitch you speak. It's also been proven in some report that the further north you travel the deeper the speakingpitch gets, this is more coultural and enviromental settings that come into play.

I fully belive though that our physical strength will be projected through our voice, so Matts article is in my point of view not wrong.

Ronws, I do really think youve missunderstood Matts reason for starting this thread I really dont think the reasonin behind it would be so we really on this forum could start to judge one's combat abilitys.

The thing this article mainly tells us is that upperbody strengths will "strenghten" our voice so that others will be able to get that in a subconcious plane.

So if you really took the time reading through what he wrote you will find this.

"The study did not determine specifically what qualities in the voices were associated with greater strength. Researchers found, however, that pitch and timbre were not explanatory factors.In other words, contrary to what you might expect, lower pitch was not associated with greater perceived strength."

wich is exactly what you are locking yourself onto... "I have a light voice but ive killed 10 ppl with my bare arms!"

"I have a light timbre does that mean im not strong?! Mike tyson also has a light timbre, he's strong right?!"

Man im getting tired now, i will probably edit this tomorrow cause i have only have clue of how this will come out now, not easy being a swede :P

[Mr Bounce]

Bit of a generalisation? 99% of people I meet call me "big fella" or "tough guy." I weigh about 95kg at 5'10, but my is definitely more "light" than heavy or gravelly.

There are certainly parallels between voice and body, but you can't get too hung up on the details.

[classical guitar]

If my voice sounded all rough and tough, I'd be pissed off too...lol

[ronws]

So if you really took the time reading through what he wrote you will find this.

"The study did not determine specifically what qualities in the voices were associated with greater strength. Researchers found, however, that pitch and timbre were not explanatory factors.In other words, contrary to what you might expect, lower pitch was not associated with greater perceived strength."

wich is exactly what you are locking yourself onto... "I have a light voice but ive killed 10 ppl with my bare arms!"

"I have a light timbre does that mean im not strong?! Mike tyson also has a light timbre, he's strong right?!"

Man im getting tired now, i will probably edit this tomorrow cause i have only have clue of how this will come out now, not easy being a swede

I did read that. I thought I was agreeing that there is a rather weak connection in this study and I was providing examples, not bragging. But, evidently, you felt the need to "correct" me. So, enjoy it for whatever it was worth.

I haven't killed anyone, yet.

[WebAndNet.com]

One possible causation. Men who sound tough are more stressed, and being more stressed, get into more fights.

[Matt]

As noted, bass tones were not counted as having import. Personally, I find ozzys hard, grating, thin voice, more aggressive or 'nasty' than Dios much bigger voice.

[Jens]

"But, evidently, you felt the need to "correct" me"

Well yes ofc, as the discussion on this subject took a turn for vocalfach versus combat abilities, and famous singers combat abilities contra their voice...

"I haven't killed anyone, yet."

hehe I might be your first then if we meet then ;)

[ronws]

"But, evidently, you felt the need to "correct" me"

Well yes ofc, as the discussion on this subject took a turn for vocalfach versus combat abilities, and famous singers combat abilities contra their voice...

"I haven't killed anyone, yet."

hehe I might be your first then if we meet then

No, I would greet you as a friend. People sometimes misunderstand me.

I'm a peace-loving old guy. And I can kill with my hands and feet. Nothing to brag about, just a thing. Part of what makes me, me, I guess.

My wife is hugger and she rubs off on me. I am more likely to give you a hug than one of the 5 deadly strikes.

As for the skills, it's why I had to learn to control my emotional reaction to any confrontation. It's better to walk away. But I think this was originally about whether or not a voice signals strength. And Matt has recently been talking about fighter training and it seems a theme is beginning to develope.

[Jens]

"I am more likely to give you a hug than one of the 5 deadly strikes. "

ok ronws now you caught my intrest, what are the 5 deadly strikes?

[ronws]

"I am more likely to give you a hug than one of the 5 deadly strikes. "

ok ronws now you caught my intrest, what are the 5 deadly strikes?

Knuckle strike to the temple.

Iron palm just to the left of the sternum.

Knife hand or knuckle strike to the trachea (death follows in 4 to 4 1/2 minutes due to lack of oxygen.)

Strike or kick under the armpit (right armpit, major nerve center and artery.

palm heel strike to the nose at a 45 degree angle. This shatters the nasal bone and drives it into the front of the brain, causing a severe hemmorage and death follows in 30 to 60 seconds. It is unrecoverable.

There are other techniques, such as snapping vertabrae which takes the right angle and strength. A kick to the crotch can send a shock wave through the body.

But all of these are just physical techniques. What I learned, aside from a few other techniques, from my friend, Lee, former US Navy SEAL is the intention and timing of doing unto others first, before they do unto you.

[Matt]

Without getting into a martial arts five fingers of doom contest: ""A man with one year training in boxing and wrestling can beat any martial artist with 15 years of experience" -Bruce Lee "

http://www.sherdog.net/forums/f48/bruce-lee-boxing-wrestling-543229/

[jonpall]

Having trained and coached Brazilian Jiu Jitsu and some MMA myself for 5 years or so, I can say that Matt and Bruce (lol) are right. The reason is because traditional martial artists don't train against resisting opponents (or at best, against opponents who resist in a very unrealistic manner). This has been proven time and time again in MMA competitions such as the UFC (in which the first competitions there were almost no rules and the traditional styles were simply slaughtered). By pitting fighters from different styles against each other for more than a decade, it has been proven that using simple but high percentage techniques from Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, boxing, wrestling, Muay Thai, Judo and styles in which you train against resisting opponents with not that many rules, works FAR better in any type of combative scenario than the traditional martial arts. Bruce Lee was a genious in recognizing this and using his own judgement and not following traditions blindly. Ron is correct, though, about the best self defence is awareness and learning how to walk away from fights. But people have been bickering about this for many decades so it's pretty pointless to get into an argument about it here so I suggest we stick to singing ;)

[Matt]

Yeah, BJJ + MT have crystallized into the ultimate MA. Western and Thai boxers have no respect at all for wing chun punches etc. When I came down to the boxing gym they actually mocked me by saying I was slapping Kung Fu style, e.g. no power from the torso, legs, no projection of bodyweight which to a boxer is a beginners way of punching. And the reason I went to a western boxing gym was because all the MMA and muay thai guys at the MMA gym all told me to get my hands from a western boxer because since its .their only weapon, they do it the best.

Also, IMO, Lee was much like Jimi Hendrix. He mixed up new stuff in a way noone had heard before and invented a freer form. Today however, theres a kid in every city that can play every lick Hendrix ever played and 3 times as fast too if he wants. I would say the same development has happened with Lee and martial arts,

[ronws]

One of my favorite sources was Bruce Lee's "The Tao of Jeet Kune Do." He wrote the parts of it while he was recovering from a back injury. He called Jeet Kune Do the style of no style. Tae Kwon Do is heavily stylized. So is Kung Fu. Kenpo Karate has it's particulars. But the secret of Jeet Kune Do was that it had no formal stylized forms or katas and the idea was to strike or block from any position. This made a Jeet Kune Do opponent nearly impossible to read in combat. With sparring, I learned to read others' patterns. That is why I could get the upper hand, at times. Because people tend to do what is comfortable to them and I would take advantage of that.

Someone once asked Bruce Lee what the students should be taught. "2 blocks, 2 punches, 2 kicks." Very minimalist. And the moves should be practiced until they once again feel like the every day moves of walking and moving.

[Matt]

One of my favorite sources was Bruce Lee's "The Tao of Jeet Kune Do." He wrote the parts of it while he was recovering from a back injury. He called Jeet Kune Do the style of no style. Tae Kwon Do is heavily stylized. So is Kung Fu. Kenpo Karate has it's particulars. But the secret of Jeet Kune Do was that it had no formal stylized forms or katas and the idea was to strike or block from any position. This made a Jeet Kune Do opponent nearly impossible to read in combat.

So does boxing and thai boxing. You must always be in balanced stance, ready for attack or defense.

Someone once asked Bruce Lee what the students should be taught. "2 blocks, 2 punches, 2 kicks." Very minimalist. And the moves should be practiced until they once again feel like the every day moves of walking and moving.

This imo is the reason for the success of boxing and thai boxing. Instead of spending 15 years practicing a myriad of weird movements (you're never ever going to get any use for a kick in someones armpit), they spend all those years just perfecting a few, the most effective punches to the most clear targets, face, body, harder, faster, straighter.

[ronws]

Yes, the side effect of Jeet Kune Do is better balance because you move from whatever previous position, not necessarily a center Jeet stance. That is, you can block a punch with an arm and then move that arm from the position it just had blocking to a strike, rather than return the arm to a neutral position on the body, as you would often do with Kenpo Karate or Tae Kwon Do. Also, and this is the best part because it involves basic physics, is the striking force. f = ma, force = mass X acceleration. So, a strike should be like a whip or a snake. And since most people mass close enough to each other, would changes force is acceleration. So, having the greater acceleration at the end of the strike, increases the force. That's why a little guy can take down a big guy.

Though it's nice to kick high for flexibility, high kicks are a liability in a fight. They are easy to see and defend against. But a sharp, slanted kick to the knee, which only takes 7 to 15 lbs per square inch pressure to break the other way, is nearly impossible to block with your arms.

Even though it is valuable to spar and learn to read people, some of my most valuable instruction came from the Tao of Jeet Kune Do and from my friend, Lee, not the author, but my friend who was the SEAL. A true combat by such means is quick and over very shortly. Most real fights in combat are designed to kill in 5 seconds or less, usually 3 seconds. Any longer and you are taking the chance of getting hurt.

Another secret that fed agents are trained and most police departments are not. When in an altercation, he who creates the first injury wins.