should i wait? your advice please?

[VideoHere]

well folks, i have a song i've always wanted to do.... "juke box hero."

i've tried. boy have i tried to sing it, even a half step lower, and it still proves too difficult for me.

but thanks to you folks i have learned how to call notes which helps me (finally) understand why.

the s.o.b. vocal is full of full voiced d5's and e5's plus that g5 at the end? right?

i currently cannot hit those notes in full head voice. technique wise i can see how to sing it, but i just cannot hit those notes.

if you folks can help me, would you have any suggestions of vocal exercises which you could say would specifically target my ability to eventually hit those notes in that song?

i can do the song 2, 1/2 steps down, but it's just not the same.

[classical guitar]

TVS... Ask Robert. I'd bet he could tear that song a new butt hole... Not a good teacher myself since I've always had a g5... Guess I just had good breath management skills from playing brass instruments all my life... But yeah, I love that song.

[kalapoka]

Will you give this a try - hitting the D5s and above (or which ever high note you are having problems with) in a very low volume falsetto...sustain in falsetto...and then slowly start adding body to it...bring it to resonate in the head...until its fully vibrating in the head...

Just something I've seen advised in other places so I thought to share...ofcourse actual teachers here will have better suggestions...if you try this, let me know how it worked...

[VideoHere]

Will you give this a try - hitting the D5s and above (or which ever high note you are having problems with) in a very low volume falsetto...sustain in falsetto...and then slowly start adding body to it...bring it to resonate in the head...until its fully vibrating in the head...

Just something I've seen advised in other places so I thought to share...ofcourse actual teachers here will have better suggestions...if you try this, let me know how it worked...

hymm, good idea kal....kind of doing messa di voce to get at it. i do messa di voce exercises but never worked up past g4...yes, i will try that.

anybody else, steve, martin, "g.q. matt," chelle, anybody?? apprecaited!!

[ronws]

I can't offer anything. I think Fahid said it best. But I'd like to hear you sing it no matter how much you drop key to get.

[VideoHere]

I can't offer anything. I think Fahid said it best. But I'd like to hear you sing it no matter how much you drop key to get.

ron, i really have to say, i'm just not ready yet.

anyone else...i'd really apprecaite it...has anyone done it?

[kalapoka]

Bob, did u try that messa di voce yet? i am interested to know the results! :)

[VideoHere]

Bob, did u try that messa di voce yet? i am interested to know the results!

yes i did but the notes are still way out of my reach...i'm currently "messa di voce ing" (lol) from e4 to g4 but thanks to your suggestion i'm gonna start moving up the notes i try.

kal, do you cover that song?

[ronws]

What if you tried sneaking up on that song. Start with "Urgent" or "That was yesterday." Those start out with a little easier range with some high notes you could stretch yourself on. Basically, work your way to "Jukebox Hero." Just a thought.

Edited to add: This last Christmas, one of my gifts was the 3 - cd set of Foreigner. It's in my car. I bet you have the same set or one like it.

[kalapoka]

....

kal, do you cover that song?

Haha Bob I don't even know that song...sorry...Haven't heard Foreigner much except their big hits...but judging from the few youtube clips posted here & yours and others' discussions here, I am sure they are WAY out of my league at this moment. (FYI my current league is Bryan Adams LOL!!!!!!!) :D:D

But my advice was given with good intentions!

Fahim

[joshual]

remind me of that song i' m workin on!

I can't get to these kind of note by relaxing a lot and keepin everything loose. And not trying to maintain a hold. Just letting the note go.

[VideoHere]

Haha Bob I don't even know that song...sorry...Haven't heard Foreigner much except their big hits...but judging from the few youtube clips posted here & yours and others' discussions here, I am sure they are WAY out of my league at this moment. (FYI my current league is Bryan Adams LOL!!!!!!!) :D:D

But my advice was given with good intentions!

Fahim

kal, thanks very much...!!!

please listen to this...you may recognize it:

the vocal to me is unbelievable...he's got this screaming/singing ability i'm in awe of:

now the real problem area comes after 3:20

[VideoHere]

What if you tried sneaking up on that song. Start with "Urgent" or "That was yesterday." Those start out with a little easier range with some high notes you could stretch yourself on. Basically, work your way to "Jukebox Hero." Just a thought.

Edited to add: This last Christmas, one of my gifts was the 3 - cd set of Foreigner. It's in my car. I bet you have the same set or one like it.

yes, i agree

a long-term work in progress

i do those you mentioned and yes ron, "urgent" had to be worked on for quite some time too.

i know one thing about these songs...if you don't diagragm and sing on the vowels, you are dead in the water.

i think also, i have to admit, i hate to admit, these notes are not part of my full-voice range...yet!!!

[VideoHere]

remind me of that song i' m workin on!

I can't get to these kind of note by relaxing a lot and keepin everything loose. And not trying to maintain a hold. Just letting the note go.

josh, i'm really glad you turned me on to this guy...i love his voice!!!

i perceive it (i may be wrong) as a nicely "pressed" head and palate vocal, but i hear a really open throat and a lowered larynx position for getting this sound.

i really like it...kinda like chris cornell but more soulful!

[ronws]

yes, i agree

a long-term work in progress

i do those you mentioned and yes ron, "urgent" had to be worked on for quite some time too.

i know one thing about these songs...if you don't diagragm and sing on the vowels, you are dead in the water.

i think also, i have to admit, i hate to admit, these notes are not part of my full-voice range...yet!!!

I just recorded another song but what I did was make notes on the lyric sheet as to how many repeats of the guitar fill or the chord progression and this immensely helped my timing. That is, I needed to give myself auditory cues. I wonder if you could do something similar, making phonation notes at certain points to see if that reminds you of "where you need to be."

I would still love to hear you sing. If a drunk redneck can get up on karoake night and croak through "Turn the Page" by Bob Seger and the Silver Bullet Band, you will already by light-years better because you have studied this and exercised.

In any case, blessings on you and I know you are going to achieve what you want. I don't expect you or any one to sound like Lou. So, if you don't have the exact timbre he has, it's not a loss. But enjoy what you do.

[kalapoka]

remind me of that song i' m workin on!

I can't get to these kind of note by relaxing a lot and keepin everything loose. And not trying to maintain a hold. Just letting the note go.

Ah Stevie Salas ... we in the guitarist world sometimes call him the poor man's Nuno Bettencourt (guitarist extraordinaire for the band Extreme)...But i didn't know he also 'stole' the voice of Kotzen! LOL!

[Steven Fraser]

hymm, good idea kal....kind of doing messa di voce to get at it. i do messa di voce exercises but never worked up past g4...yes, i will try that.

anybody else, steve, martin, "g.q. matt," chelle, anybody?? appreciated!!

VIDEO: For a large tenor voice to sing at all (messa di voce or otherwise) up above G4, you have to get into head voice that is not pushed. A help to do this will be to sing vowels which have lower passaggio points, and then carry over the approach to other vowels. The ones with the lowest passaggios are /i/ and /u/ (ee and oo). For the tenor voice, the passaggio for these begins on about Bb below middle C, and ends at the Eb above middle C. This means that singing ee or oo above or beyond the Eb above middle C is done in head voice.

My recommendation would be to use these two vowels to help you establish headvoice coordination in the somewhat-easier range of the Bb to Eb range, and then carry that over to other vowels and higher notes, with this general approach.

Begin with a semi-occluded consonant, such as Z or voiced Th, on a medium-soft Bb next to middle C, and open to an oo vowel for a second, then change it to a round ee vowel. Don't support too hard. Take it easily. This should provide a fairly lightly-registered tone. The goal is to have the feeling in the throat for the consonant be carried over into the two vowels. For later purposes, lets call this sound sequence and timing. 'Thooee'.

Transpose the Thooee exercise up a half step, no louder, and repeat. The vowel production should feel like no big deal, and without significant 'support' work. It should feel like no more work than you would use to sit up at a table and have a conversation. If you feel like you are beginning to expend any more effort than that, you are working too hard.

Transpose up to the Eb above middle C.

Now, return to the Bb, and reduce the volume of the Thooee to pianissimo, that is, just a teeny bit louder than the softest you can sing it. Once you have that volume found, sing a messa di voce on the Thooee, with the crescendo and decrescendo on the ee vowel. Do the messa di voce it 5 times on each note from the Bb to the Eb, as you did before.

Change the syllable to Voiced Th, ay, oh, sustaining the oh, which I will call Thayoh. Repeat the messa di voce starting on middle C, and transpose it easily up to the F above.

Return to the Eb above middle C, and use the sounds Th, eh, oh, sustaining the oh, ...Thehoh. Use this from Eb to G, and then change the syllable to Thayah for Ab and A natural.

I hope this helps.

[VideoHere]

VIDEO: For a large tenor voice to sing at all (messa di voce or otherwise) up above G4, you have to get into head voice that is not pushed. A help to do this will be to sing vowels which have lower passaggio points, and then carry over the approach to other vowels. The ones with the lowest passaggios are /i/ and /u/ (ee and oo). For the tenor voice, the passaggio for these begins on about Bb below middle C, and ends at the Eb above middle C. This means that singing ee or oo above or beyond the Eb above middle C is done in head voice.

My recommendation would be to use these two vowels to help you establish headvoice coordination in the somewhat-easier range of the Bb to Eb range, and then carry that over to other vowels and higher notes, with this general approach.

Begin with a semi-occluded consonant, such as Z or voiced Th, on a medium-soft Bb next to middle C, and open to an oo vowel for a second, then change it to a round ee vowel. Don't support too hard. Take it easily. This should provide a fairly lightly-registered tone. The goal is to have the feeling in the throat for the consonant be carried over into the two vowels. For later purposes, lets call this sound sequence and timing. 'Thooee'.

Transpose the Thooee exercise up a half step, no louder, and repeat. The vowel production should feel like no big deal, and without significant 'support' work. It should feel like no more work than you would use to sit up at a table and have a conversation. If you feel like you are beginning to expend any more effort than that, you are working too hard.

Transpose up to the Eb above middle C.

Now, return to the Bb, and reduce the volume of the Thooee to pianissimo, that is, just a teeny bit louder than the softest you can sing it. Once you have that volume found, sing a messa di voce on the Thooee, with the crescendo and decrescendo on the ee vowel. Do the messa di voce it 5 times on each note from the Bb to the Eb, as you did before.

Change the syllable to Voiced Th, ay, oh, sustaining the oh, which I will call Thayoh. Repeat the messa di voce starting on middle C, and transpose it easily up to the F above.

Return to the Eb above middle C, and use the sounds Th, eh, oh, sustaining the oh, ...Thehoh. Use this from Eb to G, and then change the syllable to Thayah for Ab and A natural.

I hope this helps.

steve, my sincere thanks for taking the time to do this for me...thanks again.

[VideoHere]

kal, thanks very much...!!!

please listen to this...you may recognize it:

the vocal to me is unbelievable...he's got this screaming/singing ability i'm in awe of:

now the real problem area comes after 3:20

kal did you listen to the song?

[VideoHere]

[but I'd like to hear you sing it no matter how much you drop key to get.

ron, if you want to hear me sing, i recorded "black hole sun" on my page.

[kalapoka]

kal did you listen to the song?

Just listened to the song now. Man that guy has some pipes!!! some worn down, gravel loaded powerful pipes!!! I have NO idea how he does that slight distortion tone. I also have to ask you cuz I couldn't figure it out myself - what are the notes he is hitting on the line 'gotta keep on rockin'? what a range man!!!

Tough song to sink your teeth into man...dont stop till you kill it!!! also, i think there's no harm in trying to transpose it down atleast a whole step. (we won't tell anybody :D) No seriously, don't hurt yourself and definitely try out Steve's exercise.

Let me know what note those were cuz I wanna try to hit that note

thanks for the upload man! Will listen to hot blooded now (i heard this one before ... who hasn't!!!?)

Fahim

[VideoHere]

Just listened to the song now. Man that guy has some pipes!!! some worn down, gravel loaded powerful pipes!!! I have NO idea how he does that slight distortion tone. I also have to ask you cuz I couldn't figure it out myself - what are the notes he is hitting on the line 'gotta keep on rockin'? what a range man!!!

Tough song to sink your teeth into man...dont stop till you kill it!!! also, i think there's no harm in trying to transpose it down atleast a whole step. (we won't tell anybody :D) No seriously, don't hurt yourself and definitely try out Steve's exercise.

Let me know what note those were cuz I wanna try to hit that note

thanks for the upload man! Will listen to hot blooded now (i heard this one before ... who hasn't!!!?)

Fahim

that's an e5, and you've got a g5 to worry about in the last verse, plus the consonants "juke box hereeeoooo, he's got stars in his eyes." The man was an animal!!!!! Working on "Hot Blooded" and that's a bitch too (lol)

but hey, that's how we grow... right?

[ronws]

ron, if you want to hear me sing, i recorded "black hole sun" on my page.

What page? I couldn't find you on the main website and clicking your login just gives me your profile page.

[VideoHere]

What page? I couldn't find you on the main website and clicking your login just gives me your profile page.

good question...the only way i know is to click on my (horrible) photo ....(robert b., grey winter jacket, grey hair.) i will stay on line so you see my on-line photo..

double click on me, then go down the left side of my page and you'll see a player with that song on it.

i'll stay on line till i leave my store 9:00 tonight, e.s.t.

[ronws]

Bob, it's 7:16 CST (daylight savings time) I just clicked on your page and looked at your video list and didn't see it.