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my take on sls mastering mix

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through a friend, i got a hold of mastering mix and went through it.

all i have to say is why anyone would think this program couldn't build you one hell of a powerful voice is beyond me.

often, i've heard folks say mastering mix and singing success is more for light singing goals.....i say, no way. this is right up there with all the other top d.i.y. programs....tvs, ktva, cvt, and the rest

let the argument begin!!!!!...lol!!!!

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It seems that most people get confused because of the "Speech Level" thing. They also may be Skipping through things instead of following the program.

The exercises are mostly the same as other programs, people just don't know to give it a little more effort.

I also had that problem with it. Until recently I was not getting enough cord closure for any real progress to take place. Even though that program seems to be mostly about cord closure and "Crying" for the "mix" to take place it never happened for me, at least not through that program.

Maybe it was the way that they presented the exercises that caused confusion.

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i believe a fundamental mistake brett manning made (although well intentioned) was featuring himself and his wife on a lot of the examples.

brett admitted on a couple of the cd's that he has a light, lyric voice....if he could have used a variety of voice types on those examples he might have been better off.

maybe if he featured some heavier weighted voices.....or a nice "mix," no pun intended, of different voice types. but his explanations about each exercise were pretty good.

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You may be on to something there, Bob.

I can only speak for myself but I do have a tenency for trying to copy someones sound in the exercises or even when learning a song. If he is using a very light sound I would try to copy that.

For learning songs, I now look for many different singers performing the song and take hints from others with a similer weight in voice or a style that is closer to my own. That way I do not get stuck trying to copy the "Original" singer and can give my voice a chance to seek its own level of weight and ability.

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yes, think about it.....if you try to do exercises from a d.i.y. program and all you have for reference is an audio of one singer it can be tough to interpret all of the exercises right.

now how about as you develop, are these still going to be the audio examples you work with? hell no, because you may end up sounding better than the examples...you will outgrow the examples....

now what's your reference?

a lot of times their reference sample isn't even demonstrating that many notes (not the entire exercise).

i'm sorry, but i would hesitate to take vocal lessons from a woman teacher unless she really knew how to judge me and correct me as a man's voice.

same with bodybuilding...i'm not going to train alongside guys who are naturally endomorphic, if i'm an ectomorph...

if you want to peel paint off the walls you have to train to do that. if you want to sing gently and soft and sweet you can train for that too.

but i'll bet the peel the paint off the walls singer can gear down to soft and sweet but the soft and sweet singer is going to have a harder time going all out.

just my opinionated opinion, and i hope what i wrote made sense....lol!!!

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I am using the MM program and it has worked very well for me. I tend to have a breathy voice, so the Edge Exercises and the precise coordination builder like the Pianissimo excercise have worked great. I do the Extreme Closure excercise once a week, as it feels very fatigating on the muscles.

Focusing on fold closure is what I have been doing on the past 3 months, when I started using the program ( and serious training :D), and I have really improved.

I remember Rob Lunte saying somewhere in the forums that having a program and exercising, no matter what exercises, WILL build you up in some way or another and it is a thousand times better than not doing anything about your voice. So I don't know if this particular program works well for me, or it is "just a program", but I have had respectable improvement, to my ears at least.

Now, I KNOW by experience how mislead a student can be when guidance is misunderstood. So I am overly conscious before, during and after an exercise to make sure I am doing the right thing. Some people may have problems understanding exercises, their goal, or their execution though. Fortunately I can do fairly well working on my own.

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i believe a fundamental mistake brett manning made (although well intentioned) was featuring himself and his wife on a lot of the examples.

Totally agree with this. Personally, from the videos I have seen of Brett singing songs, I don't think he's that great of a singer. This is made even more apparent when you compare him to other teachers like Robert or Ken Tamplin for example, who in my opinion sound much better. I'm not slating the guy as I don't believe you have to be a great singer in order to be a great teacher; the two are not mutually exclusive, much in the same way you don't have to be a great sportsman to be be a great manager. Anyway, what I'm getting at here is that in most of the videos of Brett I've seen concerning the mix, he uses and incredibly light co-ordination. Now this could be for many reasons such as wanting to encourage his students to start light, that he wants to keep the example as smooth and fluid as possible, or that he simply can't do it.. I don't know. What I do know is that for a long time it certainly gave me a slightly warped view of what mixed voice actually was and how to achieve power in that area.

On the Singing Success youtube page, he has a handfull of other singers giving lessons in the method which really helped me to gain a broader view of the mix technique. Chris Keller is a particularly good example of one of these coaches, as he does not sound like your stereotypical light phonation sls singer (even though his/the sls views on rock singing seem incredibly backward and incorrect). Check out these 2 videos of him to see what I mean. It's quite crazy how two people using the same method can get such a different sound, but I suppose that's the nature of the beast!

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On the Singing Success youtube page, he has a handfull of other singers giving lessons in the method which really helped me to gain a broader view of the mix technique.

That's indeed what happened to me. I love how Jesse Nemitz explains things, and I sympathize a lot with him as he has gone through similar vocal problems than me. In fact two videos of his that touch the topics of "How much compression is too much compression" and "tension vs strain", have helped me understand some things and keep myself on the right trail.

I'd prefer more uploads of Jesse's videos than Brett's haha ( Or Shelby Rollins.. she's sexy, lol )

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I think Brett Manning can sing huge if he wants to. Watch this video: http://www.singingsuccess.tv/videos/?vid=24

That is pretty cool, very nice ring to the tone.

Jesse Nemitz is amazing at explaining concepts.

http://www.singingsuccess.tv/videos/?vid=90

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Clearly you guys are the experts, but as a newbie, I felt far more strain, tension, and stiffness after doing some of those exercises, than I have when doing stuff from folks who preach more of an open throat approach.

I have a relatively heavy voice. And the only way for me to eliminate tension in my throat and to sing freely is to push a medium amount of air. I certainly am not singing at low volume at that point. When I try singing with low volumes, or with softer sounds like you hear on those MM lessons, my throat gets tense, my larynx wants to rise, etc. (My layman's interpretation is that if I don't push enough air, I have to close down my pharynx to keep the cords closed and resonant, which means contorting my throat. Push more air from the mid section, and I can feel very relaxed.) This is NOT explained in MM.

I suppose now that I understand a bit more, I could go back to MM and do the lessons with the approach that works for me. (Singing louder). But when I started, killer on my throat.

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Guys be careful when you talk about having a naturally heavier voice. I am definitely that way, my voice likes to hang onto the power, that's my comfort zone, but they doesn't mean you CAN'T go light or that you can't learn anything from SLS. Being able to sing light with proficiency is just a matter of skill. Making a convincing performance of it, that's where natural vocal qualities come in to play...people may notice your light singing isn't as easy and natural for you, but that's no reason to limit the repertoire you learn, at least not in the practice room.

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but i'll bet the peel the paint off the walls singer can gear down to soft and sweet but the soft and sweet singer is going to have a harder time going all out.

just my opinionated opinion, and i hope what i wrote made sense....lol!!!

Depending on alot of things of course, but I disagree with this. For me at least, singing soft and sweet but connected high is ALOT harder than doing the same with a full on belt.

Cheers!

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mivke, that's not my point...my point was most singers who mainly sing light are going to have a harder time really leaning in to their voice when the time comes to do it.

the other point i wanted to make is if you intend to sing like jesse nemitz you have to mentally want to go there....some singers just simply have to want to go there.

and feeling tension and strain and pressure and all is going to happen to a beginner.....you are working out the voice...how can you get stronger without some kind of effort.....?

i think too many d.i.y. beginners are so hung up and are so afraid of a little strain that they end up undertraining...and that includes breath management training.

they think "oh boy, i feel strain, i'd better stop." and that isn't always what they need to do.

daniel said he's spoken to great singers that all they did was scream their asses off every day, no formal lessons, just screamed into a pillow......

it depends how you strain....there's a right and a wrong way to strain.....just as there's good tension and bad tension....you can under support and you can over support...

right?

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Bob, maybe we define light differently?

At 09:50, light or heavy?

The other parts I agree with, you have to know some limits but you can't be afraid. As long as you have some common sense I think the voice can take alot of "experimentation" :)

Regarding terminology.... I would call "good strain" correct tension rather then good strain just for my own minds sake.

Cheers!

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Actually, in my opinion you either support or you don't. :)

What Bob probably means is that you can support too hard or too soft. In both cases, you aren't really supporting your voice. It has to be just the right amount of support effort to be an actual breath support for the voice.

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Bob, maybe we define light differently?

At 09:50, light or heavy?

The other parts I agree with, you have to know some limits but you can't be afraid. As long as you have some common sense I think the voice can take alot of "experimentation" :)

Regarding terminology.... I would call "good strain" correct tension rather then good strain just for my own minds sake.

Cheers!

from just this section not heavy, nor light.

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