Stifled, suppressed almost alerting sound, please help

[akarawd]

Hey all,

I am basically self-taught and practice constantly. In the following example (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1781520/Vocals/TNT%20-%20Fantasia%20Espanola.mp3) you can hear my biggest weakness, around the passagio area.

However it is the overall "stifled" quality of the high notes I'm worried about. This was recorded on a day without proper warm up.

The alarming/stifled moments are :

00:44 "Danced in the arms of San Pedro",

01:05 "In the full moon...home made"

and 01:54 "But I feel... embraced her"

Could you please tell me what it is I am doing wrong ? Am I just using throat muscles to get the notes ? Is there a way to eliminate this ?

When doing powerful singing (as in : http://www.punbb-hosting.com/forums/themodernvocalist/viewtopic.php?id=965) having the problem is rare but may occur.

Best,

akarawd

[jonpall]

Sounds like your getting slightly too loud on those high notes and therefore you break a little bit. Try keeping the volume at medium level throughout your range, kind of like having a in-built compressor (which automatically turns down the volume a bit if it starts to raise) in your throat, if that makes sense to you And if you listen to yourself doing that, you'll hear a slight "crying" quality to your sound, which almost every technically good singers have in their passagio area. Try crying or whining and hear how it sounds. It shouldn't sound totally like that - just a bit.

Also try to sing just those high notes and sustain them for a few seconds. I'm sure that at first, you'll wobble a bit but try to find a good balance so it doesn't happen. Just my opinion. Btw. you sing well in general and I like the song! Those small problems on those high notes can be fixed - vocal students around the world are doing exactly that all the time. Cheers.

[akarawd]

Sounds like your getting slightly too loud on those high notes and therefore you break a little bit. Try keeping the volume at medium level throughout your range, kind of like having a in-built compressor (which automatically turns down the volume a bit if it starts to raise) in your throat, if that makes sense to you And if you listen to yourself doing that, you'll hear a slight "crying" quality to your sound, which almost every technically good singers have in their passagio area. Try crying or whining and hear how it sounds. It shouldn't sound totally like that - just a bit.

Also try to sing just those high notes and sustain them for a few seconds. I'm sure that at first, you'll wobble a bit but try to find a good balance so it doesn't happen. Just my opinion. Btw. you sing well in general and I like the song! Those small problems on those high notes can be fixed - vocal students around the world are doing exactly that all the time. Cheers.

Thanks for your answer jonpall, lowering the volume and twanging does help a lot on softer notes, I totally agree with you. It's just, I feel like I'm putting some kind of muscle(?) pressure.

I'll try sustaining these notes while singing them very lightly before singing this song again, to see if the overall sound quality improves. Thanks again.

[jonpall]

No, I'm not talking about lowering the volume so much so that you start to sing soft, not at all! Just slightly so that you don't end up with a "shouty" tone, which many call "pulling chest".

[akarawd]

No, I'm not talking about lowering the volume so much so that you start to sing soft, not at all! Just slightly so that you don't end up with a "shouty" tone, which many call "pulling chest".

We're on the same page, approach the passagio area with less volume than in chest voice so as not to pull my chest voice up.

I will play around with that more to see if I can get it to sound less stressed.

In fact I was paying attention to the original and I think your observation applies.

[jonpall]

Yeah, you'll still be pretty loud and powerful on those high notes, just note quite at "maximum" volume, where you'd be shouting your lungs out and possibly hurting yourself. IMO, you should feel a slight "restraint" quality, which is pretty much the same sensation as "being in pain". I don't know if you have any vocal instructionals but SLS would call this cry or mix and CVT would call this curbing. It's a very powerful and pleasing sound, actually.

[akarawd]

Jonpall , I've put your suggestion into effect :

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1781520/Vocals/TNT%20-%20Fantasia%20Espanola2.mp3

Breath support was what helped me do this one. Actually it required way more support than I thought... strange.

I put a bit more volume and pressure on the second high part (01:52-02:00) and at "let me Go" I'm having the hardest time with.

Let me know if this approach works better (less stress etc) and if the passagios sound smooth or lame.

Yeah, you'll still be pretty loud and powerful on those high notes, just note quite at "maximum" volume, where you'd be shouting your lungs out and possibly hurting yourself. IMO, you should feel a slight "restraint" quality, which is pretty much the same sensation as "being in pain". I don't know if you have any vocal instructionals but SLS would call this cry or mix and CVT would call this curbing. It's a very powerful and pleasing sound, actually.

Might that be the sound at the 2nd high part (01:52-02:00) ?

PS. I've bought the CVT book and I'm getting acquainted with each mode etc.

[ronws]

I liked the first version better. Just a personal preference, I guess.

[akarawd]

I liked the first version better. Just a personal preference, I guess.

The 1st is stronger vocally I guess, I put the time to sing everything correctly etc

My query about the 2nd one is not so much the overall tone, just if applying the technique jonpall suggested changes things.

I tend to think the high parts in the 2nd version have less of a "stressed" sound. and that I need to approach soft songs like this -

of course I don't expect it to happen overnight, but if I practice it for 2-3 months it should start to feel and sound more natural.

What do you guys think ?

[jonpall]

Jonpall , I've put your suggestion into effect :

I put a bit more volume and pressure on the second high part (01:52-02:00) and at "let me Go" I'm having the hardest time with.

In this clip you might have been using slightly TOO much restraint/hold/cry/curbing sound on your voice. In the first clip - perhaps slightly too little. In time, you'll find a happy medium. But the important thing is that you're experimenting with the aim of getting better. After having heard both clips, it sounds a bit to me that you're main problem now could be your vowel modifications. You should start to slightly modify the vowels as you go up in pitch so your voice sounds better up there (every listener out there, trained or untrained, would agree). The "curbing" chapter in the CVT books explains the vowel modifications well that you need to do when singing in the high part of your voice with medium volume. Check it out when you have the book.

The "let me go" phrase sounded pretty good, actually. But the phrase before, "but I feeeeeeel...." could be improved slightly, IMO. It's absolutely not bad, but you want it to be great, right?

I think you DID do what I suggested, i.e. put a bit of a restraint on that "feel" word, which was the high note, albeit just a bit too much. Your voice wobbled just slightly on the onset (beginning) of that word. But since you're experimenting with this, of course you're not going to get it 100% right the first time - that would just be insane. But you're in the right direction. I think that error is two-fold:

A) You're not using the optimal vowel for that word. Try directing it a bit, not completely, towards the vowel Ih, as in "sit". That will open your throat more and make it much easier for you.

You just need to practise it more often. I'd suggest not just practising the whole song over and over, but also just those phrases that are giving you a hard time and even just bits of the phrases. And also do some scales and slides and other vocal exercises with that "curbing" sound with medium volume.

It's not surprising that you're finding it more difficult to sing "but I feel" than "let me go". The word "feel" has a more difficult vowel than the word "go". So there you have it. You're in good company of people who experience the same thing. The human race

If you still feel strained when you sing "let me go", try modifying the word "go" a bit towards "gUh" with the Uh vowel as in "hungry". Right now it sounds like you're using the vowel Oh as in "so", which takes a bit more volume and effort. It has a shoutier character (the CVT mode "overdrive") and while it can be used in many songs, I doubt you'd want it in this song. But that's really your choice. I'd recommend the Uh vowel.

Btw. here's a neat way to train a song in the tenor range. I came up with this exercise myself, actually, but it has been helpful. It really helps those "onsets", i.e. it helps you to be able to sing words on high pitches and make them sound good RIGHT from the bat, so there's no wobble or slide up at the beginning. Just don't ONLY do this exercise. Vary your vocal training routine. Here it is - me using this exercise to tackle one of the most classic songs of all time: http://www.box.net/shared/u5pzizompu. I'm not doing it perfectly so sorry about that, but that's exactly why I'm training.

[akarawd]

Jonpall,

Thanks a lot for taking the time to listen to both versions, for your suggestions and mostly for posting the exercise, I appreciate it.

I am slowly getting familiar with the modes and optimum vowels etc, a lot to digest.

I'll practice all the new-found evidence and I'll try to spot other songs that give me trouble.