knowing when to let go

[VideoHere]

folks,

last night i learned an important lesson about what separates a great singer from a good singer.

i went to my local karaoke bar attempting what i haven't sung in a while which was "waiting for a girl like you" (foreigner)..one of my all-time favorite power ballads. for those folks who don't know, there are several (hope i've got this right) c5 sharps (the black key above tenor high c), and a killer f5 at the end all sung in a pretty powerful head voice.

well, as i neared the "i've been waiting's" i knew i was in trouble it just wasn't there...i was relaxed, warmed up, in a great mood, used support evvvvvverything!!!...and i simply could not hit those notes, as you know as the song goes on it gets even more difficult "won't you come into my life" aaaaaaahh (that part i never hit anyway). in retrospect, i never had an easy go with that one...guess i was trying to impress the crowd.

you know, i have tried every conceivable way to hit those notes, every technique (if your intent is get his sound and power, etc.) it is a royal bitch.

so....i browsed around youtube looking for covers and all the rock guys who have ever covered it have dropped it a half step, kelly hansen, joe lynn turner...i guess you have to say to yourself sometimes..this particular singer is a "gifted animal" and you just don't have the range to hit those notes, make them sound good, and do it consistently. it's tough to admit when you're as driven as i am.

i wanted to share that with you because it seems it's something i have to deal with more and more especially as i grow older..now don't get me wrong, i'm not giving up, but i think i have to start accepting the fact that i'm not 30 anymore. so tonight we'll try again and drop it down a half...hey, life goes on...i guess

b.t.w..if anyone as covered it, and knows the"secrets" please let me know.

[Jens]

Well somestuffs are a bitch to sing, some songs can be a bitch for yourvoice typ

But hey who am I to say, ive never sung a decent covered tenorsong in my life but nowdays im actualy happy with my own voice. But man i wish i Would have a Stable F- G- A-B- C in a fullvoiced quality, then i would truly feel ready Dunno if that ever will happen though.

[Steven Fraser]

But man i wish i Would have a Stable F- G- A-B- C in a fullvoiced quality, then i would truly feel ready Dunno if that ever will happen though.

Jens: vocal stability in this region is greatly helped by singing the best (i.e., most resonant) vowels. If you pay a bit of attention to 2nd-formant tuning, your vocal power will increase, it will get easier to sustain, and stability will improve. Twang goes without saying.

Know what I mean?

[VideoHere]

any help you can give me..like lower the key?

"ahhhh behn waaaaaadaaaang" is as vowelized as i can make it. it's amazing how hard this guys songs are to sing!!

[ronws]

Most bands drop 1/2 to a whole step for live performances. I bet even Foreigner has done it. And most people, including a number of musicians can't tell the difference. And, since most of the audience is varying states of inebriation, they may not be able to tell, either. I say drop a 1/2 and go for it.

[Jens]

Well honestly im abit in the dark about that area of my voice, it's a dangerzone for me sometimes I can hit that F and sometimes i just plain dont. My headvoice is great and overthetop but i have a really hard time with that area as my headvoice is not powerfull enough on those pitches and my chestvoice cant reach them. Im in a nomansland where i mostly only can sing my own songs since most pop/rocksongs peak at around A and the melodies often lie and hover from middle C up to F.

I wish i had a tenorsvoice with easy access to that area, can you give me some indepth tips on this steven? Cause if i master this area il be a beast...

[Steven Fraser]

Well honestly im abit in the dark about that area of my voice, it's a dangerzone for me sometimes I can hit that F and sometimes i just plain dont. My headvoice is great and overthetop but i have a really hard time with that area as my headvoice is not powerfull enough on those pitches and my chestvoice cant reach them. Im in a nomansland where i mostly only can sing my own songs since most pop/rocksongs peak at around A and the melodies often lie and hover from middle C up to F.

I wish i had a tenorsvoice with easy access to that area, can you give me some indepth tips on this steven? Cause if i master this area il be a beast...

Jens: Yes, happy to give tips. I know you have a monster head voice, and a strong chest voice. IMO what you have done is make them too different from each other. Here is the physiology of it....

While the sensations are often quite different, what is going on in the larynx in chest voice and head voice are nearly the same. The only difference that is really needed is to let the registration slightly lighten, and to increase the adduction.

The issue for the strong-voiced male singer is the tendency to oversing in the top perfect 5th of the chest voice. It feels so good and fat to sell this area... its seductive. For a baritone, this range begins about the Ab below Middle C. For the tenor, middle C or C#.

The remedy is to _not_ fall into this trap, but rather to maintain resonance by modfying the vowels toward versions which are more easily sung, and, while twanging still, being sure that you are keeping your breath balance. If it feels like you are pushing your voice 'up and out', you are oversinging. Instead of doing that, pull back just a little.

Some additional help is to use semi-occluded consonants ( V, Z, voiced TH, etc) in slow, medium-soft rising-octave sirens. Begin on the Ab the 10th below middle C, and transpose upward by semitones. You will be able to feel the moment when you usually pump up the tone. Don't do it. Let it just be.

Another exercise you can do, which causes a lower transition to head voice, is to use the /i/ or the /u/ vowel. If you don't drop your jaw, you are likely to go into head voice at the D next to Middle C, or even lower. If you start the voiced consonants (one of the ones just mentioned) and then open just slightly to an /i/ without dropping the jaw much, you will be in a phonation configuration between chest and head voice. Explore that feeling, and then migrate to some of the other vowels, in this fashion:

Theeeeee-ay, Theeeee-ih, Theeeee-eh, Theeeeee-oh...

The goal is to achieve the intermediate phonation configuration on the Th and the sustained ee, and then to carry over the sensations to the other vowels.

I hope this helps.

[akarawd]

Jens: Yes, happy to give tips. I know you have a monster head voice, and a strong chest voice. IMO what you have done is make them too different from each other. Here is the physiology of it....

While the sensations are often quite different, what is going on in the larynx in chest voice and head voice are nearly the same. The only difference that is really needed is to let the registration slightly lighten, and to increase the adduction.

The issue for the strong-voiced male singer is the tendency to oversing in the top perfect 5th of the chest voice. It feels so good and fat to sell this area... its seductive. For a baritone, this range begins about the Ab below Middle C. For the tenor, middle C or C#.

The remedy is to _not_ fall into this trap, but rather to maintain resonance by modfying the vowels toward versions which are more easily sung, and, while twanging still, being sure that you are keeping your breath balance. If it feels like you are pushing your voice 'up and out', you are oversinging. Instead of doing that, pull back just a little.

Some additional help is to use semi-occluded consonants ( V, Z, voiced TH, etc) in slow, medium-soft rising-octave sirens. Begin on the Ab the 10th below middle C, and transpose upward by semitones. You will be able to feel the moment when you usually pump up the tone. Don't do it. Let it just be.

Another exercise you can do, which causes a lower transition to head voice, is to use the /i/ or the /u/ vowel. If you don't drop your jaw, you are likely to go into head voice at the D next to Middle C, or even lower. If you start the voiced consonants (one of the ones just mentioned) and then open just slightly to an /i/ without dropping the jaw much, you will be in a phonation configuration between chest and head voice. Explore that feeling, and then migrate to some of the other vowels, in this fashion:

Theeeeee-ay, Theeeee-ih, Theeeee-eh, Theeeeee-oh...

The goal is to achieve the intermediate phonation configuration on the Th and the sustained ee, and then to carry over the sensations to the other vowels.

I hope this helps.

Just wanted to say that this post is an invaluable source of information. I'm new to the forum and would like to ask if there's a book where it's all gathered ?

Thanks in advance and my apologies for intruding.

[HolaChau]

I have none of them, but there are books like Four Pillars of Robert Lunte and the CVT book, but since I don't have them I don't know the contents

[akarawd]

I have cvt myself and it's a great read but the way Steve gave the answer is excellent, I kinda hoped he has put all that knowledge in a book of his own.

[classical guitar]

Prolly failed at that song because you tried to sing it like that big hoss lou grahm... Try isolating the vowels and their notes in the hard phrases an doing a messa di voce on every vowel with it's respective pitch. That's how i fix my heavy voice. Even though I battle sinus issues and reflux I can ALWAYS manage to have a E5. Good days as high as C#6... Technique, technique, technique.

About a year ago, I got real serious about singing, and I decided to incorporate the lip roll, messa di voce, and full voice sirens daily. I decided to only pick songs to sing that didn't exceed the range that I could effectively do the messa di voce... About a year of that I found MY voice. I don't ever try to emulate singers nowadays. I'm more interested in getting the pitch dead on with full tone.

[Matt]

Most bands drop 1/2 to a whole step for live performances. I bet even Foreigner has done it. And most people, including a number of musicians can't tell the difference. And, since most of the audience is varying states of inebriation, they may not be able to tell, either. I say drop a 1/2 and go for it.

The sad thing about Lou is that he knocked that stuff out of the stadium live too. Im sure youve got to learn to really squeak with head voice to get there.

[VideoHere]

yes matt!!! that was some concert. i have and studied the dvd. he's very bright on this one. years ago he was more deeper voiced.

but folks, i figured it out last night!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

first was resigning myself to the fact that i need to be a 1/2 step under...

the skill is kind of what steve says...to hit these notes you have to really sing letting virtually no air out, and use a hell of a lot of support and visualize a "virtually" completety closed set of chords then on top of all that drive the notes up into the soft palate. i actually sing it better when i precede the phrase with a tiny inhale and it's a muscular move as well. i went to the mirror and sang it and no bulging veins no tense facial muscles.....but man, it's truly hard to to it with consistent ring over and over. you have to stay loose in one regard and tense in another.

but another help was to hold back and compress air in many of the phrases "for a girl like you" "to come into"

i really think what made lou so rich and powerful was a really developed neck and lower torso.

now, i still have more work to do because whole song has to be sung...screw the f5 at the end for now.

for me, if i can "consistently" (that's the key "consistently nail that song) i'll be happy.

[ronws]

Judging by how you sang on "Black Hole Sun," I think you can already do this song. And, like you said, it's just the very top notes that are giving you trouble. But I know you're going to do this. And I can't wait to hear it, either here or in the main site under your profile.

[analog]

i really think what made lou so rich and powerful was a really developed neck and lower torso.

Don't forget the power of the Rock Bandana. Could be all you're missing :P

[ronws]

Don't forget the power of the Rock Bandana. Could be all you're missing

Dang it, I wish I had thought of that. When my hair was long, I used to wear a headrag. Even with short hair, I still look like a Hell's Angel.

I think Bob would look great in a bandana, like Axl wore in the "Sweet Child o Mine" video.

[Jens]

Steven your tips rocks! would you say im on the right track?

http://www.speedyshare.com/files/23261563/thee.wav

[Robert Lunte]

I have cvt myself and it's a great read but the way Steve gave the answer is excellent, I kinda hoped he has put all that knowledge in a book of his own.

I am working very closely with Steve Fraser and there will be much "influence" from Steve in future releases of "The Four Pillars of Singing"... so if you like Steve Fraser... you will get lots of "that" in my training system, "Pillars"... more to come on that.

[joshual]

when will it be realeased Rob????

[Steven Fraser]

Steven your tips rocks! would you say im on the right track?

http://www.speedyshare.com/files/23261563/thee.wav

Jens: Glad you liked it. Since its tricky to describe an exercise in writing, I 'll take another go at it, with some additional explanation. I am not sure I really understood what you were doing in your clip.

The principal difference between the chest voice and the head voice is the relationship of the harmonics to the vowel resonances. Particularly, when the 2nd harmonic rises above the lower vowel resonance, the singer enters the lower side of the passaggio, aka the 'Primo Passaggio'. About a perfect fourth above that, the singer can align the 2nd vowel resonance with a harmonic, and that is the sign that the singer is in head voice, just above the 'Secundo Passaggio'.

Within the passaggio region, the singer must not be oversinging, or the required, progressive lightening of the registration and the concurrent adjustment of the adduction which both must occur in this area, will not occur correctly. If not allowed to occur, the singer will get to the head voice with either a too-light or too heavy registration, and either pressed or breathy phonation.

So, the key skill to being able to bridge from chest voice to head voice with consistent tone quality, is to allow the subtle adjustments of laryngeal muscle action to occur within the passaggio. The singer can set up better to acccomplish this by avoiding pushing or oversinging in the perfect fifth range below the primo passaggio.

A good way to do this, is to sing vowels that have lower passaggio points. EE and OO (/i/ and /u/ in IPA) have the lowest primo passaggio points. Starting on the Bb next to middle C, onset a voiced consonant at medium volume, such as the voiced TH, or V, and sustain for a moment. Open that consonant smoothly to /i/. It should feel very easily made, no big deal, but clear and still medium loud. Do not go for max volume. Go for ease of production. I am going to write that syllable (with a couple seconds of the TH, followed by the easy -ee, as TH-EE. Go as smoothly as you can between the two sounds.

The next step in the exercise is to add a second vowel after the /i/ , for example /I/ (ih). Ih has a higher first vowel resonance, ABOVE the one for /i/. WHen you transition to it, you will be transitioning into the chest voice. The goal of the exercise is to keep the quality of the phonation achieved on the passaggio-/i/ to be present in the chest voice Ih. In the throat, it should feel just as liquid and easy as the /i/ does, though (because it is in chest voice) likely to be louder just because of the better resonance.

When you can phonate with the same sense of ease throughout that whole syllable TH-EE-IH, then add the other ending vowels.... Ay, EH, OH, and finally Ah.

When all those are smoothly done, and feel equally easy, then transpose the exercise up 1/2 step and repeat.

[Jens]

aha, i was just making slides over my break trying to end on the eh oh ay ih in a "chesty" manner:P

[kalapoka]

Within the passaggio region, the singer must not be oversinging, or the required, progressive lightening of the registration and the concurrent adjustment of the adduction which both must occur in this area, will not occur correctly. If not allowed to occur, the singer will get to the head voice with either a too-light or too heavy registration, and either pressed or breathy phonation.

So, the key skill to being able to bridge from chest voice to head voice with consistent tone quality, is to allow the subtle adjustments of laryngeal muscle action to occur within the passaggio. The singer can set up better to acccomplish this by avoiding pushing or oversinging in the perfect fifth range below the primo passaggio.

Steven, I am not sure if you have reviewed SLS technique, but reading from the paragraph I have the question that - is this the same as what Speech Level Singing ideologies or Brett Manning methods teaches when they say 'shed the weight when approaching the mix voice/ region and shed the weights as you go higher and higher through this region?'. The catchphrase for remembering this adjustments while we are practicing the transitions in this area is 'Light and Right, not Heavy and Wrong' - Is this more or less similar to what you mean?