Expanding Vocal Range!! Help please!

[SlashRock05]

Kinda needing for help. :/ My voice is classified as Bass. :cool:

My usual vocal range was Open E of the guitar (6th String), and 2 Octaves Higher of Open String E (1st String). Or From E2-E4 On the piano, going to access my head voice for F4-G4.

Someone tipped me up that if I'm going to expand my vocal reach, both the low and high range must expand higher and lower. Meaning that the higher notes I could reach, is equivalent to the Lower notes I could reach. :/ (Not Sure)

First thing I'd like to ask is, If that TIP above is true about vocal reach expansion is true. If it's true, then how could I expand my vocal reach both for the high and low registers? If not, then maybe I'll focus on the lower register first.

Any tips outta there? Thanks!

(Been singing for 1 year and a half) Been in a chorale group for school. :cool: Can produce clean tremolo and vibrato on tessitura. Problem is that Can't reach higher and lower notes for certain songs.

[Jim Brewster]

I don't think that is true, or I'd be reaching for E1!

Seriously though, for most guys, especially basses and baritones, the lower range is already better developed because that is where our speaking voices tend to lie. The passagio and points north are likely to be the uncharted territory.

[SlashRock05]

Well, that seemed hilarious for me. Just imagined that if I'm going to reach for E1, I'd be eating my vocal cords out. Haha

Hmm. Just kinda curious, what's your voice classification/type? Maybe you could share ideas and techniques with me eh? ;)

[JensTP]

Support, cry/hold, support relaxing all tension, support, self confidence and a little support

I started out with E2-E4 at 17 years of age, and 13 years of singing (without really training) later I think of my usable range as A2-G4. I can still hit the same E2 as before but I just realised it was never any good. As for the high notes I can probably stay connected to around F#5 but it doesn't sound like chest voice. And I don't really keep track. F4-C5 is where I'm trying to get more consistency, because that's where my ears tell me it can sound good (anything higher gets shrieky, which is fine for power metal, so if I end up in that kind of band...).

And I can fry notes down to E1, when my voice isn't crackly. They don't project at all, but give me a mic gained to 11 and I'll fake some JD Sumner.

In conclusion: my low range hasn't expanded at all, and my high has expanded slightly but is still a work in progress. The main difference is in quality and consistency, which is what makes those low notes obsolete - they just can't be improved enough to match the gains made in the mid to high range.

[Jim Brewster]

Well I've always defied classification. :cool:

In choral settings I've always sung bass because I've never had trouble reaching the low notes, and most tenor parts straddle my passaggio which is centered around C4. In contemporary settings I find my niche from the low end to some head voice harmonies. I've got a few good twangy notes around G4 and a little above, but from there down to around B3 is still a bit of a minefield!

Being lazy, I generally avoided developing the less comfortable parts of my voice, though I'm drawn to smooth mid-range stuff (from Nat King Cole to John Lennon to Sting to give you some idea) that's very hard for me to sing without shouting, or sounding girly and cracking, or some combination thereof. So that's why I'm here, to pick up tips and pointers, get feedback, and share some of my knowledge and experience, which is more generally musical than vocal.

[ronws]

According to one definition of vocal ranges, a tenor can croak as low as E2, if volume is not that important. Doesn't matter, really.

E2 - E4 without modification: hard to tell, depends on the weight or texture of the voice.

I'm afraid I'm going to have to get all "Felipe" on you and say that really, you need a coach, one who can correctly classify a voice. I think bass can go lower than E2 but I am not an expert, by any definition. Though you may have a lot of boom down low and my amateur opinion, if that was the case, is that you would be possibly a dramatic baritone. Though you will be able to sing notes in the tenor range. A number of baritones here can do that. And one I have met in person can do a D5. Not quite as loud as mine but he could do the note, which is all that counts.

[SlashRock05]

Well, thanks for the responses. For my voice, I can overpower 4 chorale members With my E2 with such ease. Can't seem to find my passagio. :/ Think its about on B4. Had Support for my high registers, but it seems that the higher the notes, the more air I'd be needing. Still feels comfortable around A5 but struggling too much to B5. Using my head voice in such a low volume makes me too tired to sing though. And another thing, Never had any problems at my vowels in the head voice.

Lastly, JensTP, I'd say that I'm shocked 'bout the fact that your voice could reach G2 without real training or coach? Maybe I'd improvise through as the time passes by. :)

[SlashRock05]

And another thing, I noticed a huge difference on my singing voice between nights and days. I like to sing, especially outdoors. During the day, or afternoons, can't reach for around D4. Comfortable enough at C4. But at night, I can hit notes from C#2-A#5, Accessing the head voice at around F#4. Does the time of day something to do with my vocal reach? or air humidity maybe?

[Owen Korzec]

SlashRock that's you getting out of morning voice. A good warm up of the entire voice can speed up that process.

And what they teacher told you is incorrect most singers train mostly to expand their high range. So their vocal range ends up extending upward way more than downward

[SlashRock05]

Oh. Thanks Owen. Well, I'm really looking for expansion for my lower range. Is it possible for me to reach C2 at a greater time?

And one thing, any vocalization does not take effect on me, somehow. It'll only help me reach into an G#4, but not the ones I could reach during the night. Like A5-C5. Any suggestions 'bout that though? Thanks. :)

[Owen Korzec]

Yea you can probably extend the low end from E2 to C2.

Vocalizing will only get you out of morning voice if you do it right. Including how you vocalize the night before. With that being said, I am not an expert on the correct way, so its best to see a great vocal teacher and have them assign you a workout to help you overcome your individual issues.

[ronws]

Well, your voice already has the all the range it is going to ever have. I don't know of a case where someone expanded their range downward. For get voice classes, just range. The lowest notes you can make are when the folds are thickest. Unless you have some neat magic trick that you haven't told us, there is no way to make them thicker than what your genetics gave you.

But all this is moot. Someone else told you that you have to expand both up and down, even though you are more interested in down. And we have tried to say that you don't really expand down, which is not what you wanted to hear. So, feel free to reject and discard my musings.

As for voice classed as bass, a true bass is quite rare and that is both range and weight. Whoever classed you as a bass probably needed one and you were the most available person that could make some acoustic volume in the second octave.

Kind of like the Army. "Be all that you can be - as long as it's what we want you to be."

[SlashRock05]

Oh. So, this is already the deepest I got. I'm looking forward to being a true bass (Big Fan of the PTX), as I thought that it could have more expansion. Sorry 'bout that. Rather than that, In times when I vocalize, I could reach G4 during the day, and maybe up to A4. But as I do a slide of notes down to E2, I'm finding it hard to sing at E2. In some ways, I could only reach E2 before vocalization. Not quite like my voice at night in which I could reach D2- B5.

[Jens]

If you sing alot in your highrange during the day the lowrange will become harder as the larynx sets itself alittle higher after a while.

the oposite applies in the morning where the larynx has sunk in the night. Thats why your voice is much lower and groggy in the morning

[SlashRock05]

Jens, is there any way for me to keep my larnyx low and steady as I reach the higher notes? ;)

[JensTP]

I'd be a bit surprised if you can sing a powerful E2 and not reach a D2, but then I can only talk from personal experience without any real understanding of the anatomy and physics involved. In that sense I share Ron's view that genetics gives you boundaries for expanding range. In the low range it's a bit more of a hard cap where modal voice just stops, whereas the hard cap on the high range is well above what you the need. There is however a soft cap on tonal quality: you can always go higher but at some point it just starts sounding like a different voice. When it comes to the soft cap, techique will change the limits of genetics.

The standard tricks for singing well (posture, support and all that - I forgot to mention vowels, but Phil added that above) have done just about nothing for my lower extension. I could hypothesize that prior to singing I had a habit of speaking at the very bottom of my range, which made my comfortable which those notes from the get-go and conversely made high notes quite difficult. I first hit B4 in full voice three years ago after browsing singing technique in youtube and testing out the idea of the cry/hold. Three years later I can just about sing in that range, but it really has been a struggle - like the learning new motor skills all over again. G4 has become a completely different problem for me after it isn't my highest note anymore. From being som sort of athletic exercise aiming to just make it up there (sounding shouty or pinched) to being a balancing act of getting it to sound full and round without straining anywhere.

There is an important point to be made here. Getting some sort of full voiced shouty G4 or Bb4 doesn't necessarily help you sing that note. You need good technique to get there and bad technique most likely won't help you. So if you get range-focused and spend time "reaching for notes" you most likely are wasting time that could be spent learning to sing.

If you choose to go without a teacher prepare for a long journey. You might still get where you want and you might have more fun, but it certainly will be slower.

[ronws]

Oh. So, this is already the deepest I got. I'm looking forward to being a true bass (Big Fan of the PTX), as I thought that it could have more expansion. Sorry 'bout that. Rather than that, In times when I vocalize, I could reach G4 during the day, and maybe up to A4. But as I do a slide of notes down to E2, I'm finding it hard to sing at E2. In some ways, I could only reach E2 before vocalization. Not quite like my voice at night in which I could reach D2- B5.

Actually, you are kind of making my point for me. You have some notes on certain days at certain times, and not so much on other days and times. But the notes are there. Your physical structure has not changed. Only how you use it has changed. So, you've always had the D2, you just don't get there every day. Just as, you have notes in the 5th octave. You may not get there every day, but they are already there.

And so, lessons and development may seem like you are growing range but, in my opinion, you are learning to access what you already have. Getting out of your own way, so to speak.

And for most guys, increasing range is about going up. And those who have 4 octave ranges or more, were already low voice types, to begin with. And you and I are probably the few who have sought to go lower. There are a few pop songs I wanted to do with very low notes and I just don't have a lot of boom or power in the lowest noises I can make. But I find that keeping the throat relaxed and really slowing down the expiration helped. So did recording at the end of a day, when I am tired. And a few tricks in recording, such as mic proximity, eq, volume boost on a snippet of track.

What I had learned was that a voice has a dynamic range of lowest possible sound to highest possible sound. Within in that is a region that has the greatest amount of control over volume, tone. That region is the artistic range. Although, while being artistic in pop music, any sound you can make is valid. So, when I have done songs with low notes, I had the notes all along, I just found out how my voice does them. And I had to let go of how I think they are to be done.

[Jens]

Jens, is there any way for me to keep my larnyx low and steady as I reach the higher notes?

well get a good program and a coach to train your voice strong, train your lows and highs. manipulating the larynx manualy is not something i support.

Also people talk so much about limits and my voice is like this and that yada yada. I dont belive we have much limits if our technique and voice is top notch.

I dont feel like i have any limits in terms of range, then ofc im gonna train the range that i like the most.

BUt if i train my lowrange alot, guess what it expands

and if i train my highrange alot, guess what it expands

It still does so to this day, and ive sung and trained with good programs/good coaches for 10 years.

[SlashRock05]

Thanks for the advice ya got there fellas. Good time catching up with you. At first, I'm not looking forward to having a voice coach because I'd seen some pretty good singers that got up to 4+ octaves of range, without trainers and coaches. Some local singers in my state, not to mention but one, Michael "Mitoy" Yonting which had been singing for his entire life and gained 4+ octaves of voice. You may search for him at YouTube. One of my idols out there. Haha

JensTP: And just to clear it, I can maximize the volume and weight of my E2 and can reach D2 but not that powerful enough as of my E2. But in times, I cannot reach my D2. Just full of vibrations with a little or no tune at all. Haha

ronws: I do believe in your thought, for someone told that to me too. Maybe it's just the way I execute it. Things are already clear up to me now. :cool:

And (maybe) my last question: There are times that I've already vocalized where I could execute A5 but another problem was that, I can't seem to execute my falsetto at a lower range. I can only execute it at an octave higher (which seemed to be a problem to me). Any answers there? Thanks for the responses! :)

[Jens]

A voice coach just gets you there faster. Also there will always be some freaknatural singers when everything comes really easy.

But if you was one of those chances are very big you wouldnt be on this forum and asking these questions about range expanding as you wouldnt have that problem

[Jim Brewster]

If you can sing a loud E2 I suspect you can go lower. It's a matter of relaxing and not pushing, something I've been more successful applying at the low end than at my bridge. The thing is it may never be very loud, and especially in a band setting with bass and drums (and in our case a 'cello), you have a lot of competition in that frequency range. Pushing will never help you get lower; it will make you miss!

I reserve my D2's for the final chords of a few songs, and really eat the mic. It's a pretty cool effect, but in an unplugged setting I don't know if anyone else can hear it but me. Better to hit the note and not be heard than to push it and miss! That's the attitude you need if you're going to explore the basement! Let the volume increase with experience if it will.

[Owen Korzec]

SlashRock don't be discouraged by these naysayers trying to tell you you can't expand your low range. The reason it is rare is because most singers dont care about it. And because it doesn't happen by itself, you need to train it. That being said I haven't extended my low range, but I've never tried either, so who am I, and who are we, to tell you can't do it because it didn't just magically appear in our voices?

Talk to Jens, of all of us he is one who has gone very low and knows how that range works. Shoot him a PM or hit him up on Skype, id pick his brain if I were you

One last thing I don't recommend going the no-training route even though others do. It takes a special kind of mindset to improve a great deal on your own and most people dont have that.

[Jens]

Thanks for the kind words owen however i usually only offers my help via skype to people that:

1.are serious about there and actualy train for real.

2. Intrest me or i consider friends

3. 4 pillar students

The reason im here is to discuss. Here is where the best coaches you can find is.

Robert, Daniel, Felipe and martin and to some extent Phil even though I havent skyped/trained with him like with the others.

[JensTP]

And (maybe) my last question: There are times that I've already vocalized where I could execute A5 but another problem was that, I can't seem to execute my falsetto at a lower range. I can only execute it at an octave higher (which seemed to be a problem to me). Any answers there? Thanks for the responses!

You're saying you can't hit A4 in falsetto and that you would like to be able to? Can't give you too much advice there since I was always a Bee Gees kind of singer. It doesn't have to matter a lot. Some schools of teaching emphasize falsetto as a way to learn to navigate the higher range and some simply ignore it and go straight for the beef (staying connected).

Also I'd speculate that the A5 actually isn't falsetto. Untrained full voice just sounds like that in that part of the range and in my experience an airy tone that high can actually be quite difficult to nail. To get a sustained tone I typically need to twang a lot which adds adduction (compression of the folds). It still sounds like falsetto until you gain some more general voice control and find the right vowel, placement, distortion, whatever.

[SlashRock05]

Hmm. Okay, here's one last thing. Never mind the falsetto. Well, I noticed a very big difference in my singing during the night and day. I could reach A5 both in the day and the night, but the thing is I could not execute A5 at the day compared to the A5 in the evening. There is a noticeable level of ease in the evening than that of the day. In the day, It's like reaching a D5 at the night. I could do A5 in the evening just like the way I sing G4 in the morning. Does this have something to do with humidity or Air temp and Pressure? :)