Unfair judging

[jonpall]

I just wanted to vent a bit about this. I think it's far too common that people listen to singers that have still not matured as vocalists and are obviously shy or scared and then sign them off as bad singers. F.ex. this American Idol audition:

This girl is obviously very scared and therefore it shows up in her singing. And the judges talk like she can't sing. They should have said that "she's not ready" or something, meaning that she has to have stronger nerves than that for this competition.

[joshual]

That kind of TV program is just (excuse me) full of shit....

All those judges are simply here to destroy average singer or not skilled singers. The more they put them down with killers sentences the more they get audiences.

[Rick Jones]

Yeah I often have exactly the same thoughts about these kind of programmes....but you have to remember, these shows by the time they hit TV are heavily edited, and the contestants go through a pre-judging phase first, where they either get turned around and sent out or passed through to "the judges".

An aquaintance of mine is a very good singer, has a well known and popular local band, went for the show's UK equivalent and was never passed from the pre-judging.....he is a good vocalist, but he was neither oustandingly impressive or terrible in his audition, and this is waht makes TV, I think he may have been just a little too good to be one of the token "middle ground" singers that we see a couple of every week.

That girl may have had other advice, but they edited it to make it look brutal etc.....still wrong, as people watching will maybe think they shouldn't try and sing.

[WebAndNet.com]

This isn't about singing, damn it, it's about tv entertainment. And the judging is part of the entertainment.

[Mr Bounce]

The thing is though, the judges rarely ever say "you are a crap singer." They usually talk about the audition or the performance, eg "that was terrible," or "you just didn't have it there" etc. I wish I had the patience it must take to sit through literally thousands of poor singers and have to try and find a nice way to say 'no.'

Also, don't forget that on TV they show only a handful of tapes out of thousands. Most of the time, the judges probably just say "sorry, no" but every now and then they lose their composure, and the producers edit it to make it look like they're being mean.

The bottom line is the judges are actors on the show. They are paid to do what they're told.

[VideoHere]

The bottom line is the judges are actors on the show. They are paid to do what they're told.

and i think some of the singers are paid actors as well. before they get to the celebrity judges these singers are looked over for looks and appeal too.

sadly, it's a brilliant show. it's like a test market to see which singer will make then a lot of money. but by having america to the judging (regardless of how much better others were) it almost guarantees the record company a hit. this is one money making machine.]

it's like these karaoke contests...the pretty gal always seems to win or the guy who drinks his ass off at the bar, and the judges are cluless.

i remember a contest i was in once, i overheard the judges "but larry, that older guy with the ponytail was great, let's stick him in.....the owner said no, that guy, all he ever drinks is water and adouls!!!

the judge came over to me and said, i'm sorry man, i thought you were great, but the owner didn't like your song. i blonde bimbo who sang "these boots were made for walking" (oh, such a tough song) won!

a heavyset black gal who nailed aretha frankin's "respect" lost!!! all fixed.

[ronws]

I wouldn't be caught dead on "American Idol." I know some of you think my recordings suck and, in some cases, they do. But I do really well, live. And if I am ever going to make it, it will be the old-fashioned way, like others before, playing in bars, dives, parties, whereever, making my own albums, the way the Ray Wylie Hubbard does. If I could sing for a famous band, that would be great, too. But it would based on the audience. Not Simon Cowell, who is not representative of most people's musical tastes. Even when I agreed with him. For example, I thought Adam Lambert was the most phenomenal singer since Kelly Clarkson. And Adam didn't win. The winner himself thought Adam should have won. But that's the public for you.

In the bio info, she sings in church choir. In her audition, she has quite a range. And they were laughing at her as she came in. And she was right to call Randy out. I never heard of him or Simon Cowell before the show. And the host says, "Well, those people are my friends." Yeah, well, your friends suck. And have no talent. Except for Paula Abdul. And I've seen my share of people in various states of mind and inebriation. And, just by the sound of her voice and phrasing, she was stoned out of her mind. And she's going to judge who is fit? Simon used to produce singers that do dance records. Randy, the same, with some soul and R & B thrown in, evidently. So, this church girl is supposed to show up like Beyonce?

I know we will have to put up with critics, etc, throughout our singing lives, be it professional or amateur. But don't just tell me I suck. Tell me what particular things were a problem. Then again, it seems, AI is a like any other particular venue. They are looking for a particular "thing," which may have nothing to do with talent or longetivity. But let some girl on there that does endless trills and they will probably pass her through. Would Bruce Springsteen have passed? Probably not. But then, he would not be caught dead in such a thing.

Any one of us can be judged unfairly. What if some one thought Fahim's accent was slippery having only heard "Living on a Prayer" when he was spot on perfect in "You give love a bad name"?

What if someone thought I was soley to be judged by my first crappy rendition of "I Remember You"? One of my earliest recordings of "Sweet Child o Mine" had sound quality issues that sounded way bad. And someone (on another board) totally judged me by that and said I sounded like a wounded animal and could improve my singing by not singing.

What if someone heard Bob crack one note on "I've been waiting" when he was perfect on "Black Hole Sun"?

Or even pre-judge a style of the singer based on one performance. What if people thought Robert Lunte only did theater opera from his performance of "Gethsemane" when actually, in his own work, he prefers prog rock? Or, vice versa, people used to hearing him do prog and not understand the passion of that one theater piece?

Then again, tv entertainment is a different animal. People watch the show to see Simon rip someone a new one. Usually, Randy and Paula are being supportive and Simon is a total ass.

But their behavior in this audition was totally uncalled. They've had people audition that were way worse and summarily dismiss them this quickly. So, now, the show has become not about talent and inspiration, but about ratings earned by slamming someone at their most vulnerable. Bullying. I cannot suffer a bully.

[Rick Jones]

I don't ever watch the US version, but on the UK programmes Simon is usually pretty honest and not far off the mark most of the time.

A friend of mine works with him, and he is apparently more interested in rock music....he is working with an ex contestant called Lucy Jones, who I happen to know fairly well,funnily, and it's cool stuff.

My buddy and mentor once told me, of my guitar playing, "you're only as good as tonights audience think you are".

[gno]

I know what you mean about unfair judges. Sometimes I want to reach through the TV and strangle them.

[ronws]

My buddy and mentor once told me, of my guitar playing, "you're only as good as tonights audience think you are".

That is a truth, right there, regardless of what a judge thinks. Writers have an old saying. You are only as good as your last book. The same with singers and music performers. You are as good as the last album, which is why there is pressure to outdo the last effort. Most any band can be guaranteed some success on the first album. It is the second or "sophomore" album that makes or breaks them. Can it outdo the previous album. That is, you get buyer interest in the first one out of shear curiosity and radio play. The second determines if you have fans.

The Van Halen album with Gary Cherone on it was their worst seller. I'm not sure they have fully recovered from that.

[ronws]

So, what about the other side of the coin? Is what it takes to make it a sense of confidence that allows you to perform your best, regardless of what Simon says, good or bad? And if you can't survive his smarmy smirk and bon mots, can you survive the world of sharks and the fickle public opinion that is modern music? Most any rock band, like Scorpions or Guns and Roses, do much better outside of America. Cheap Trick is still touring, but mostly in Asia and some in Europe, not so hardly in America, where the band is actually from. So, yeah, the young lady came in vulnerable and let the "audience" (a couple of "talent" producers and a drugged dancer) get her goat.

And maybe that is indicative of the process of the contest. And maybe that's why Adam Lambert did so well. He came from theater. He has already had his share of critics, crappy reviews, lousy opening nights, sleepy or restless audiences. He survived those, building a confidence that could not be shaken. Whereas this young lady has mainly been singing in church. I wouldn't say "captive" audience but definitely a different venue.