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"Covering" questions....

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Rick Jones

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Excuse my ignorance, would the term "covering" be refering to that kind of thick "yawn" quality people put on their voice when mimicing low voices?

Is it down to larynx position?

I have the problem that I kind of sound like that when I hear myself back on recordings, and I don't like it....but when I started trying to learn to sing I was told to sing from where I yawn, and this just made it more prominent.

I would like to learn to "twang" ala Layne Staley, even just for the occasional note emphasis in some songs, but I have no handle on that at all, and can only get a kind of cartoon voice when I try.....would this be because my larynx sits low?

I also notice that taking a helping of 250hz out of my vocal tracks makes me sound better, same problem?

You can hear what I mean on this original song of mine.....this vocal track is frankly terrible, I was days after finishing a course of antibiotics after a chest infection...and I will redo it soon, but you can hear the sound I mean, and I was actively trying not to get that vocal quality.

Is there anything I could be working on to remedy this?

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Rick - the song sounds great.

When they talk about covering it really is to help in the Passagio area (eg. "ah" E4 - Ab4). You would modify the "ah" to an "oh" to bring down the formant and help resonate through this area of the voice.

I really like the quality of your voice - I think it fits your style perfectly. But I know what you mean about not liking things about your own voice. I'm not going to comment on the twanging or the larynx position because I am not an expert in this area. Here are a couple things that come to mind.

Make sure you are smiling when you sing (or at least energizing your cheeks) - this will raise the brightness quite a bit. You also can narrow your whole vocal tract a little in combination with smiling which will raise the brightness too.

The other thing is - Are you recording with any sound deadning? Vocal Booth? Blankets in front of the mic? If you are in an open room, you can pick up some undesireable reflexions that mix with your voice and add crappy midrange which no matter how much you try to EQ it out, it is always there. For years I was recording this way and never liked my voice. I would always try to scoop the midrange to try and make it sound better. What you are saying reminds me of my experience. When I solved that issue it made a huge difference.

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Hi Guitartrek, thanks for the reply, and for the kind words on the music!

You advised the smiling thing in a previous post to me, and I have to thank you, as it has made a very cool difference to the sound of my voice, definately helps alleviate the dark sound I struggle with.

I actually stood a toddler bed matress against the wall behind the zoom H4 for this song, it definately helped!

So, is twang the phsyical opposite of covering? I read somewhere that twanging can help stop clunks or breaks as you transition into head voice.....I suffer a major "bump" between the registers, is covering another way to avoid the bump?

Sorry for my cluelesness!:)

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I think that "covering" is probably a very complicated thing in real classical teaching, but as I understand it, it basically means lowering the larynx and raising the soft palate and singing with a really open throat.

Btw I think your vocal suits the song/style absolutely perfectly, you have a really rich, dramatic tone :)

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Hey, Rick, I liked the whole piece. And, in your voice, I could hear elements of Layne (are you sure you weren't channelling him?), some Scott Weiland, and the over all effect was a little bit of Chris Isaac. All of that meant in a good way with, of course, phenomenal guitar playing.

And I totally agree with how the voice sounds different in different rooms, even the shower. It is acoustics and no amount of exercises or mental images can change the shape of a room. I've learned recently that some pro singers carry a few different mics in their gig band to compensate for the acoustics of whatever venue they wind up in. And I can understand why.

As for the original question of this topic, it was new to me. My definition of covering was performing a song by another artist, specifically a previous recorded performance of theirs. I wasn't aware that the tone generated by asssuming a yawning position was called covering. I learn something new every day.

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Guys, thanks so much for the kindness, I really didn't think I'd done very well on that vocal take, and I posted it thinking it was an example of my worst habits.....kinda surprised people like it to be honest, but very nice of you to say, particularly the comment about Layne....if only I could channel him....or at least achieve his kind of skills.

But back onto the meaning of my original post, here are two versions of "would" by AIC....one has Layne singing, one has Phil Anselmo of Down/Pantera etc.

Both are in the same key, both singers are in the same octave.....as powerful as Layne was, Phil sounds very much more aggressive...and a whole lt "lower" despite the pitch being the same.....is this Larynx position? Is he more "covered"?

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I wouldn't be surprised that Phil had monitor earbud issues. It was an awards show, right? Well, they have to use union employees, some of whom couldn't find their way out of a wet paper bag with a sharp knife in each hand. The same thing has happened to Axl Rose and Guns and Roses at an awards show. And one would think, with the newer technology, these problems wouldn't happen. But no, it all boils down to an equipment tech who can't find his butt with both hands, a compass, a magnifying glass, and a map. Which makes him perfect for working in the US Congress.

We tend to have a singer that inspired us. For you, it may be Layne Staley. For Fahim, it might be Bryan Adams or Bon Jovi. For Bob, it might be Lou Gramm. For me, it is Axl Rose. I give up on sounding like him but as long as I can hit that range, I am happy.

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Covering is kind of an operatic term used to describe vowel modification through the passagio. Here is a clip of Pavarotti explaining covering:

If you follow Steven Frasers posts he'll talk about how we have to bring down the formant by changing an "ah" more like an "oh" to help the resonance through the passagio.

Rick - Your voice is great. I haven't heard you go into passagio. You deal with higher notes with falsetto. Your bag of techniques is great for your style. But if you want to sing high, without falsetto, you will want to learn how to do vowel modification or "covering" to bridge between your chest voice and head voice. It is a "trick". Not real easy though, but once you've got it you'll know. A lot of singers (like me) have to practice this passagio a lot because it is the most difficult area of a male voice.

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Thank your for that, Geno. My man, Pavarotti, listed as one of my favorite singers. When you are that good, you only need one name. Always open and engaging. When you have a voice like that, some are tempted to think they are God's gift to the world. But not him. Humble and willing to teach what he knows and does.

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Rick, guitartrek is spot on(and a fantastic student of this technique IMO.) I think your songwriting kicks ass and you have the perfect voice for this genre. If you listen to Phil especially, you can hear an insanely DEEP VOICE sing in the high tenor range with fluidity and power(even w/ bad monitors.) He should be the feckin' poster child for anyone whining about their voice being "too big" to sing high. :)

With that said, I can only reiterate(guitatrtrek) that learning how to sing rock in the high range, is a skill(similar to riding a bike for me.) At first, you will lean too far to the left, then overcompensate right, then get your balance and wobble like an idiot. Then, eventually get it, but don't know how to stop clean, or turn smoothly, etc.

How far you wanna take it(do you wanna ride for exercise/recreation...or do you wanna enter the Tour De France,) is entirely up to you. I would think singing Opera is closer to the Tour...and singing Rock is closer to maybe doing some local "fun rides" for charity or something. You definitely need some shape and endurance, but first you have to be able to balance on two wheels.

There are many techniques that address this, so my advice would be to research(which you are obviously doing by getting involved in this forum) and jump in. I haven't heard you attempt to go though the passagio with a full voice, so not sure what you are struggling with. Kind of need to hear you fail, to help you succeed kind of thing.

As far as Twang...there are many many discussions on this forum about it. Some general auditory cues are :

baby crying

cackling like a happy witch

yowling like a hungry(horny) cat/ 'Meow'(without the 'O' sound)

quacking like an excited duck

a taunting child(nyea-nyea-nyea-nyea-nyea)

imitating the sound of a very loud ambulance siren

I can pretty much guarantee that as long as you stay focused and motivated...you'll be able to sing anything you want!

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Glad I saw this post... first of all, great vocals, sounds cool.

2nd... If your not aware, me and Layne Staley as well as Chris Cornell, Geoff Tate, Ann Wilson, Ronnie Monroe and many others were all trained by the same voice coach in Seattle, the late Maestro David Kyle. Today, I continue on his legacy... or do my best to do so, as well as his vocal techniques.

I do believe the term "covering" has come from my pedagogy talk-track... Im NOT saying I invented the term or method... Im only saying, I have recently began using it in my pedagogy and thus... I see it begin to purculate into this message board and such... kinda like the idea of twang that is very pervasive now, I believe originated about two years ago when I started working more with it... ok , on to answering your question.

According to Maestro David Kyle and myself... "covering" is a term we use to describe the resonant sensation one achieves (and enjoys...!) when the sound is in a low heady placement, with good fold closure and darker overtones. In a sense, it is the successful execution of making your lowest head tones sound like high chesty belts... but they are not! Its so cool... Im getting my students to it a lot these days. You can make your E4s-A#4s sound like full, ballsey belts if you want with this technique.

A note or "sweep" through the Passagio will land in a nice "covered" placement ONLY when you have a few other very important things coordinated as well; you have to bridge early... go "early and wide" on your bridging, get out of the habit of bridging late... everyone does this, but especially guys and especially rocker guys... BRIDGE EARLY!!!... then, make sure that you are phonating through twang configuration, lastly... you phonate with twang mode... THROUGH a darker vowel... best vowel to train would be "Meh" as in "Egg".

So "covering" is the result of several techniques being coordinated at the right times and right velocities and contractions. Yes, it sounds kinda complicated and this is one of those questions that just cant be answered effectively over email... I have to work with you in person over the internet lesson to simply show you how to do it, talk you through it and let you hear it as well.

You can sing in the head voice and sing low head placed tones without "covering" and when you do so, it tends to be a bit more "splatty" and Motley Crue sounding... its ok, there is nothing wrong with this sound, it mostly is the result of phonating through the Passagio through a more "wacky" vowel , instead of the darker "Meh" vowel... fine for rock and metal... but not other genre's in my opinion... even for rock and metal, the darker, "covered" placement always sounds much better. To hear excellent "covering" of head tones, I refer you to Queensryche's 1st full length album, "The Warning". Simply some of the greatest rock vocals ever recorded... very dark, "belty" sounding head tones... this is the kind of phonation that you can get into at TVS... and we can also overlay distortion on top of it to go "chris cornellian" as well.

One final point... because "covering" feels exotic in the head voice, that is it is a head tone, but it feels different then head tones that are at higher pitches, ... it unfortunately, is referred to as "mixed voice" by some teachers. I absolutely hate this term. It makes students of singing think that "mixed voice" is either 1). half chest and half head or 2). some purgatory, mystery register that sits in the middle... both ideas are utterly, completely wrong. And it kills me to see students being taught this idea. Again, I will end the debate ... a "mixed voice" note is a head tone. It sits in your head voice, its not half and half and its not some purgatory "mystery" register that no one can explain... it is simply a very low head tone with unique physiological and acoustic properties (Steve-o, you may want to jump in right about now...), that give the singer a unique "low and back of the head" feeling from E4-G#4 (for men) and B4-E5 (for women).

"Covering" is the same as "mixed voice"... its just a more proper way of describing and teaching this kind of advanced heady phonation.

I encourage all to stop using the term "mixed voice"... some people are profiting from the confusion that is created by it. Because the student can never quite grasp what the hell it is or means, they keep seeking lessons and buying products to get an understanding of it. Its a term used to bamboozle the market sometimes... and if you ask 10 teachers that use the term to define it... you will get 10 entirely different answers. It really bugs me... lets pull remove the fog and mirrors around "mixed voice" and not play into this anymore... It is called, "covering" and these "covered" phonations are low head tones and they are created by practicing timing and coordination of proper vocal mode (twang), proper timing of the bridge, proper vowel modification work ("Meh"... and others but we use "Meh" at TVS) and proper formant (how you shape your vowel - mouth, lips, jaw, soft pallette, etc...).

I can show you how in a lesson, but not rambling on here on the message board...

Hope this clears the fog for you.

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Simply put....

"Covering" is Curbing in CVT. :)

Interesting... noted. However, I would like to see and hear it to be sure. Martin, when are you available for a skype web cam, would like to meet you and work on some phonations, would be interesting.

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Phenomenal post, Robert. It makes total and perfect sense to me. Even as I have been accused of going into head voice too soon, it feels like I'm on the right direction.

It also makes sense to do that so that as one ascends in pitch, it is seemless, no break. How can you break into head voice if you are already in head voice, as it were?

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Simply put....

"Covering" is Curbing in CVT. :)

Martin, can you please share with us one or two examples of curbing as used by CVT? I've been reading CVT recently but can't figure out what type of sound that would be. Hope you can post some examples, esp. focusing on this (please don't put up artists using curbing then I can't figure out which one is curbing and which one is not during the performance :( sorry...)

I've been searching youtube as well but all random stuff comes up when i key in curbing...

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I will see if I can make a clip very soon.

The reason why I say it's Curbing is because very often singers (males) shift to Curbing in the "passagio" area. This shift has many terms and "covering" is one of them. In the classical world (where the term originated from) this shift also comes with a darker sound colour but it's still a change in modes.

It's very common for singers to use this approach: Overdrive > Curbing > Neutral when ascending. And this of course usually calls for some vowel modifications - or "covering".

Here is an ex. of the shift between Overdrive and Curbing in the middle of the "passagio" that you would probably often hear as "covering" (without dark sound colour):

http://www.box.net/shared/j00lnkeo19

Though singers often use this "covering" it's really not something you HAVE to do. Here is an ex. of going all the way up in Overdrive without shifting to another mode:

http://www.box.net/shared/6x87ftv47v

:)

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Fahim,

here is a CVT video that demonstrates going from a "shouty"(Overdrive) sound to a "covered"(Curbing) one.

Listen to the vowel at the beginning, she will start on the "OH" vowel, "G-(oh)-d."

Then, listen @ 1:22, they change vowel(cover) to "UH," "G-(uh)-d.

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Hi again, I just did two clips :)

Here is a clip of me going through the "passagio" changing from Overdrive to Curbing:

http://www.box.net/shared/z8g4xmdoac

And here is the same notes with a darker or more classical sound colour:

http://www.box.net/shared/q6vg7n06zc

In my opinion this is what people are refering to when talking about "covering" :)

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Phenomenal post, Robert. It makes total and perfect sense to me. Even as I have been accused of going into head voice too soon, it feels like I'm on the right direction.

It also makes sense to do that so that as one ascends in pitch, it is seemless, no break. How can you break into head voice if you are already in head voice, as it were?

Well, ya... close... more like, "... how can you engage the constrictors and have a clunky vocal break, IF you bridge "early & wide", long before you get anywhere near the troubled zone"?... well, you cant. And thats part of the point of bridging "early and wide". I tell my students, "... change the mind set that you are some how going to push straight through the Passagio, and start thinking about it as if you are going to go AROUND the Passagio. Dont shove and push through the Passagio, go around it. Dont engage a head on, frontal attack... attack the flanks. Dont run right up the middle of the line where there are 4 300 pound linebackers waiting to stomp on your head, run to the sidelines"... and all that kinda "voice teacher esoteric" kind of talk-track.

Another way of proving that great vocal technique and its application to great art singing is about coordination and finesse', not brute strength. It takes a lot for some people to tap into this. Its so much easier to just listen to our more intuitive, primitive instincts to "push" or "shout" (a too high, chesty belt)... but the journey of learning voice technique, is a discovery that its more of a balance, poise, grace under pressure, coordination, timing... like a great gymnastic or ice skate maneuver.

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Hi again, I just did two clips :)

Here is a clip of me going through the "passagio" changing from Overdrive to Curbing:

http://www.box.net/shared/z8g4xmdoac

And here is the same notes with a darker or more classical sound colour:

http://www.box.net/shared/q6vg7n06zc

In my opinion this is what people are refering to when talking about "covering" :)

Cool, I was actually going to ask you to upload some samples, because until I hear you do what you call "curbing" I cant verify that its "covering"... I really appreciate your files here Martin, good effort dude, you get a reputation point! :lol:

HOWEVER, when I listen to these samples... This is not convincing me that you are "covering". It surely must be "curbing" as you are the resident CVT moderator here, but its either not enough sample to verify... or what I think is the case, simply not "covering" as I am describing. I need a better sample...

Please upload two files. A SLOW (no fast sloppy out of control stuff...), ascending siren from G3 to G4.

Sample 1: - chest - head bridging without "covering".

Sample 2: - chest - head bridging with "covering".

I really need to hear a better sample that takes you firmly through the Passagio and into the low head tones, where covering "lives".

... And yes, I need to lead by example here too and and create some files for you all as well... I would LOVE to demonstrate this for you all and will... I just have to find time on my schedule this week to knock it out... maybe a video over the weekend... to include the "Falsetto - Twang" calibration excercise that someone requested a couple weeks ago on another post when we were discussing Messa di voce of the vocal modes...

Guys, do you realize how killer and important these conversations are? I mean consider what we are doing here??? We are evaluating very advanced phonations, with real live, quality samples that are not only educating the community, BUT also serving to help clarify definitions from different singing pedagoies, which as we all know, is a huge problem as well.

... anyways,... Martin? "chop, chop" buddy... upload your samples and I will too as soon as I possibly can...

Steve-O... would love to hear your inputs here... BTW team, its some visits and work with Steve, when he came to visit me in Seattle, that lit the spark on this "covering" techniques in the TVS pedagogy.

In the meantime, I invite you all to watch this classic video of Geoff Tate from Queensryche. Geoff and I had the same voice teacher, Maestro David Kyle, so there are some similarities on the resulting vocal sound that he is demonstrating and what Im teaching... and how I sing as well as an artist... anyways... This is QR's first full length album... from the 80s, its from the album "The Warning" and ALL OF YOU... I encourage you to find a used copy of this off of Ebay... it is flat out, some of the BEST rock/metal vocal performances ever made! Why?... well, I dont want to go on forever, but just listen and you will see... in relation to your conversation here... one of the reasons this is such a great album is because Geoff Tate sings with a lot of darker vowel overtones and "covering" here on this album. More so then even his more recent stuff... thus its a bit more "operaticy" and I personally think its a beautiful and powerful way to sing in the head voice for a man... and thus, kinda is the ideal standard at TVS... This is from a live video they did called, "Live in Tokyo"... incidentally, probably one of the biggest influences on me of all time... this very album, this very video... where it not for THIS, I would not be what Im doing today... Its all VERY "dark" and is very "covered"... not "splatty"...

Timestamps:

1:46

2:10 "behold the child..."

2:36 "... against the wall..."

2:45: "... fall..."

3:02: " ???... LOL"

3:25 - 3:34: ".... yah..." - Great sample... he could have got real splatty here... most metal guys would have... but he sang it "covered" , threw the placement low and behind. It sits on a C5... this is "Tenor High C"... a very high note considered by most and most certainly, in the head voice, but the perception to the untrained listener (the audience) is that Geoff Tate is belting this note in his chest voice... we know he is not... but to the point... its the use of the darker vowel ("EH"), sitting on a "low-heady" placement that makes it sound darker and more "chest-like"... He sings the lyric "Warning!"... as "Warn-EH ....... - NG" as in "Egg"... the darker vowel here... he could have sang it as "Warn-A-----eing", as in "Mate"... the brighter "A" vowel... if he had, it would have been perfectly healthy and fine and still cool... but it would have been brighter, more "splatty" and thus... would have been perceived by the listener as more "... oh, thats a head voice note... "... but the use of the darker vowel, that places makes the placement go to the back and low heady placement, changes the overtones so that it sounds more "belt-like"... the end result?? A better blend of overtones, a better execution of the illusion that he is belting that C5 and, in my opinion, a better sounding vowel and performance. If your not paying close attention, you will conclude that is an "A" vowel he is singing through, but listen closely, its not ... its more of an "Eh".

4:49: "... yah..."

4:53: "... yah... Ah...." - Wow, simply beautiful, powerful and awesome... Unfortunately, you dont hear metal singers singing with this kind of vowel modification and placement too often... even Geoff Tate himself doesnt do it as much as the early days.

New production of all video tutorials on my DVD training system, "The Four Pillars of Singing" demonstrate more covering then splatty placements in the head tones... its gonna be cool.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QyQk192a5KI

... anyways, I spent an hour on this... got to get to work on other stuff today... Ill try to record some quick audio or do a nicer video in my studio this week to make the point. Martin... upload the G3-G4 samples requested, if you can... thanks bud.

Steve, good time to chime in here!

I am so PROUD of the inventive and cutting-edge discussions we are having here at TMV Forum!

Hope this helps....

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I fully agree with martin, everything that will be considered covering will fall under the curbingmode in CVT terms.

I think your getting caught up on colorations of the mode robert, curbing can sound tons of diffrent ways. Martin is demonstrating a kindo lighcolored curbing on the prefered vowel for the mode I, but on the other hand curbing can use all diffrent vowels, but the sound will still have a "hold" and be halfmetallic.

this is jorn lande singing and if you listen from 1:30 you will hear the mode cvt calls curbing, .

I juhst have too have yooouu near miiii that is waiiiii iii siiing thiiiiiss sooooong, and then afterwards he switches to a fullmetallic mode and distortion and then back to curbing, doooont yoooou knooow im goooing craiiiziii... and so on.

A cool Place in the song is where he switches from high distortedoverdrive to high distortededge into curbing, it's somewhat hard to hear due to the compressor on the vocaltrack but you can hear the metal dissappear somewhat and the soundcolor of the voice going more restraint.

Starting from 2:32 Woooohhhhoooohh hoooohhh <-(overdrive) to Craaaaaaaa(edge) and around 2:36-2:37 he switches to uuuuuhhhhhh and ends up in curbing and the restraint sound of the mode. The thing is you wont be able to hear the volume diffrence between the modes in a recording.

This is one way of using curbing, listen also to stevie wonder who almost excusivly sing in curbing.

Curbing can also sound like this, wich i belive is what you consider "covering" cause you get a diffrent soundcolor to it and powering the mode more.

Yoooouu startiiid tooo beliive the thiiings they say ooof yooou you Riiiiilly dooo belive this talk oooof good iiss Thruuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuh<----(covering?). Almost everything here is sung in curbing but up on the top on the thhruuuuuuuh you can hear him make a diffrent maneuver giving the curbing more "power" similar to that of a classical singer.

From heaven on their minds

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