keoladonaghy Posted August 9, 2010 Share Posted August 9, 2010 Jann07: I've been working with Robert, and do mostly Hawaiian, pop and not-too-heavy rock. As he said, the technique is equally applicable to all styles. I've benefited greatly from using his Pillars materials as well as Skype lessons. Personally without the lessons I would probably still be fumbling, and found them indispensable. Some might be able to do it with the Pillars materials alone, but I'mÊ» not one of them. Robert recently exposed me to the covering technique and his TVS onset package and it's been great. It's a lot of work and coordination but I'm slowly getting it. It's worth the effort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator Robert Lunte Posted August 9, 2010 Administrator Share Posted August 9, 2010 Yes, Keola is getting it... Ive heard phonations from Keola that just sound very heroic and big and "belty" , twangy head tones... big sounds... hopefully the new "onset package" will help us all get to all the technical components quickly in our phonations, what ever they may be and which ever genre' or style. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronws Posted August 10, 2010 Share Posted August 10, 2010 Thanks Ron... that is a decent sample of some cross genre' work... Trust me, I'm not buttering you up. I really dig that song and enjoy the influences in it. Again, another example that you talk the talk and walk the walk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonpall Posted August 10, 2010 Share Posted August 10, 2010 This thread is slightly funny to me because a few months ago I posted some vocals of mine here and I got good reviews but some people told me that it was slightly too "covered", which probably meant a bit too "operatic" or "woofy". They told me that my palate might be too raised or something and I needed more twang. So I've been working on fixing that and I think I'm better at it now. But it's funny that in this thread people talk about covering as something great, even for hard rock. I guess that the thing to do for rock is to not darken the sound too much and keep a good amount of twang, when you're "covering" (using medium volume, the proper vowels, raised palate and a slight crying-plus-dopy sound) in the tenor range (for males). Just a thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Fraser Posted August 10, 2010 Share Posted August 10, 2010 This thread is slightly funny to me because a few months ago I posted some vocals of mine here and I got good reviews but some people told me that it was slightly too "covered", which probably meant a bit too "operatic" or "woofy". They told me that my palate might be too raised or something and I needed more twang. So I've been working on fixing that and I think I'm better at it now. But it's funny that in this thread people talk about covering as something great, even for hard rock. I guess that the thing to do for rock is to not darken the sound too much and keep a good amount of twang, when you're "covering" (using medium volume, the proper vowels, raised palate and a slight crying-plus-dopy sound) in the tenor range (for males). Just a thought. jonpall: yep, it is a little funny :-) Its been my experience that covering, done well, does not sound covered... it just sounds right and makes the singing easier. If its done too low in the scale, overdone, or done incorrectly, it does sound woofy and objectionable for some genres, even classical. When a critic refers to a classical singer's tone as 'covered', they really mean 'noticably covered'.... they got caught with it in wrong place, or done non-well. We all have a sort of 'tonal ideal' in mind.... a range of tone qualities that our ear will accept. Part of that ideal is a sense of the proportion of the 'dark & warm' (lower) resonances with the 'bright & cool' (higher) resonances. When a singer gets into this zone, the listener is not likely to object... they just get caught up in the performance. Its when the tone is overly dark, or overly bright at the expense of the other, that we pick up on the imbalance. On the technique, its not really possible to 'overly raise' the palate. Once it goes high enough to shut the velopharyngeal port, (which it should do to avoid actual nasality in the tone) any additional raising of the palate will only slightly change the vowel, most noticably with /i/ (ee). However, the attempt to 'raise' the palate may also reflexively cause an unintended lowering of the larynx, which may be heard as a woofier tone if there is no twang to balance it. Having a dark component (woof) without the matching bright component (tweet) just sounds a bit fake, or at least, wrong to many ears. Covering, done well, (with appropriate vowel modification and with twang) sets up a beneficial acoustic environment for the singer that helps with the transition from the lower to upper parts of the voice, and this helps the vocal production be more consistent to the singer and the listener. Yes, it is funny :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonpall Posted August 10, 2010 Share Posted August 10, 2010 Thanks, Steven Say, can you tell us what your definition of "covering" is? I assume that it would be pretty much what classic singers think it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keoladonaghy Posted August 11, 2010 Share Posted August 11, 2010 Robert, I was working on my covering and the onset package last night. Something that occurred to me was that it felt that a significant change I was sensing was that in going to head voice I can feel (or think I am feeling) the complete adduction of the vocal folds. I'm not positive, but I'm curious what role adduction plays in this. I've played around with it in the range below the passagio, and when I get what I think is full adduction there, my tone goes very light. When I go through the passagio and feel it zip up, the twang makes it sound fuller. So is maintaining twang masking the effects of that "zipping up" through the passagio, or am I totally out in left field here? While I addressed Robert here, I'm interested in hearing from others. Those doing CVT are free to chime in, too. I think I have a pretty good handle on adduction in SS (which they call compression) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator Robert Lunte Posted August 11, 2010 Administrator Share Posted August 11, 2010 Well, first of all, the vocal folds dont zip up, except for in the whistle register as I understand it. The notion that they do in the lower pitches is obsolete. I dont really know exactly what your feeling here. I think you need to hang onto your onset package and so everything at the same time. I sense a little bit of analysis paralysis here again. Your getting wrapped around the axel a bit... just hold the package, hold the phonation with all the components and siren, early and wide and slow and controlled. I need to hear you in our next sesh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keoladonaghy Posted August 12, 2010 Share Posted August 12, 2010 OK, just trying to explain the sensation I'm feeling as I work into head voice when I fail to do the onset package. Maybe I mis-interpreting what I'm feeling. Not holding me back, I don't think. I don't feel that sensation when using the onset package and twang, so think I'm on the right path. It's when I don't use twang and the jaw drop that I feel it. Just curious what's going on physiologically, and curious about adduction as it's largely been absent from this conversation about covered voice and twang. Perhaps it's irrelevant to the discussion. Mahalo, Robert, from your analytic quadriplegic. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Fraser Posted August 12, 2010 Share Posted August 12, 2010 OK, just trying to explain the sensation I'm feeling as I work into head voice when I fail to do the onset package. Maybe I mis-interpreting what I'm feeling. Not holding me back, I don't think. I don't feel that sensation when using the onset package and twang, so think I'm on the right path. It's when I don't use twang and the jaw drop that I feel it. Just curious what's going on physiologically, and curious about adduction as it's largely been absent from this conversation about covered voice and twang. Perhaps it's irrelevant to the discussion. keoladonaghy: Covering and twang are resonance adjustments. Adduction is a component of phonation. While they are all part of technique, they are separate aspects. When not using cover and twang, the acoustic environment of the vocal tract is such that phonation is more effortful... there is less cushioning of the vocal bands. It may be due to this that you are more aware of the sensations associated with complete adduction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keoladonaghy Posted August 12, 2010 Share Posted August 12, 2010 Mahalo, Steven, makes perfect sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akarawd Posted August 20, 2010 Share Posted August 20, 2010 Is (any of) this covering ? http://www.box.net/shared/yg0gox2vye http://www.box.net/shared/ihtiksf6km http://www.box.net/shared/5jmhc8ssik Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Fraser Posted August 20, 2010 Share Posted August 20, 2010 Is (any of) this covering ? http://www.box.net/shared/yg0gox2vye http://www.box.net/shared/ihtiksf6km http://www.box.net/shared/5jmhc8ssik akarawd: Yes, all the passaggio and higher voice things are covered moderately, and not overdone. The parts which are below the passaggio are are not covered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
analog Posted August 20, 2010 Share Posted August 20, 2010 Aka, those clips are wheels off...love it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VideoHere Posted August 20, 2010 Share Posted August 20, 2010 Is (any of) this covering ? http://www.box.net/shared/yg0gox2vye http://www.box.net/shared/ihtiksf6km http://www.box.net/shared/5jmhc8ssik nice vocals my friend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akarawd Posted August 21, 2010 Share Posted August 21, 2010 akarawd wrote: Is (any of) this covering ? http://www.box.net/shared/yg0gox2vye http://www.box.net/shared/ihtiksf6km http://www.box.net/shared/5jmhc8ssik akarawd: Yes, all the passaggio and higher voice things are covered moderately, and not overdone. The parts which are below the passaggio are are not covered. Steven, thanks a lot for clearing that up for me. Your explanation matches how it felt like in my throat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akarawd Posted August 21, 2010 Share Posted August 21, 2010 Analog, Videohere, thanks a lot for listening guys, I'm very glad you liked them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronws Posted August 21, 2010 Share Posted August 21, 2010 The clips were good and the "Queen of the Ryche" track was a good example and it is how Tate sings it. It's also an example of Lunte means by bridged tones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VideoHere Posted August 21, 2010 Share Posted August 21, 2010 Analog, Videohere, thanks a lot for listening guys, I'm very glad you liked them. my pleasure, and your high notes just reinforce how much more work i have to do, lol!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akarawd Posted August 21, 2010 Share Posted August 21, 2010 The clips were good and the "Queen of the Ryche" track was a good example and it is how Tate sings it. It's also an example of Lunte means by bridged tones. Thanks ronws, it's an approach I've been using on and off for years but now I see it's becoming clearer it's helpful. my pleasure, and you high notes just reinforce how much more work i have to do, lol!!! I'm goog-goog-googing as I'm writing this lol! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VideoHere Posted August 26, 2010 Share Posted August 26, 2010 martin, i'm not offended, but if i'm wrong, please don't be afraid to educate me. here's some more perspectives on covering matt turned me on to this opera singer http://www.youtube.com/user/TenelliVoiceGuru#p/u Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin H Posted August 26, 2010 Share Posted August 26, 2010 akarawd, You are using what CVT would call Neutral Without Air and sometimes MLN (Metal Like neutral) :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator Robert Lunte Posted August 26, 2010 Administrator Share Posted August 26, 2010 ... oh man, are we still doing the "covering" stuff? LOL, ok... well, its good to know I stimulated the bee hive here... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin H Posted August 26, 2010 Share Posted August 26, 2010 Robert, Not really ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VideoHere Posted August 26, 2010 Share Posted August 26, 2010 Robert, Not really i posted the wrong link.. i'm enjoying this study http://www.youtube.com/user/TenelliVoiceGuru#p/u/9/jr9FYetHjfo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now