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thematrixiam
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Hey guys... I'm mainly a self taught musician. I have taught myself drums, piano/keys, guitar, bass, piccollo, and flute. I am currently getting back into flute, and trying to teach myself singing.

What way do you guys think is a good way to go about doing this?

Are there some good beginner books to get?... I know of the ones offered on this site, but those are a bit pricey for me now.

If I were to build a practice routine what would/should it involve?

If there were some articles of dos/donts and needtoknows, where would I find them?

.....

As a side question.... I have noticed that I sometimes get mild irritation of my vocal cords after I have been doing some singing practice. Not singing, singing practice. When I sing in choir at church I don't get this problem. But when I sit down and try to focus on extending my range and connecting bridges I get this sensation. It is not overly painful. More like it feels dry, if that makes sense.

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I would invest in the four pillars, then i would get some lessons with rob to get you started out.

It's the cheapest way if you look at it as

Time is money. One year with a good coach equals five on your own. I say so cause ive spent that time learning on my own.

So with the results in hand, training on your own is not worth it...

Other great coaches on this board is daniel formica or felipe carvalho.

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I have a friend of mine whose a professional opera singer, whom I can practice with. As well as people from my church....

that being said, having already stated that I will not be buying the materials on this site right now because they are too expensive for my current budget, does any one else have the answers to my questions?

(no offense intended Jens, but if someone says they have little money, they probably have little money)

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None taken, as i said i know how it is and ive walked down that route and in a sense your reinventing the wheel. Also if youve got friends to practice with thats a big plus, train with him as much as you can.

There are tons of things both explained and showed on this site.

Even if you dont buy their materia/lessons coaches such as Robert, Daniel, Felipe give away great tips on their youtube accounts.

Most of the programs ive bough that have been really good are in the upper pricerange. One that i found was abit cheaper when i bought it was Jamie venderas RYV, i dont know the price setting on thatone now but it has some good exercises.

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try books like singing and the actor, singing and the actor, the bel canto buzz.

and i think a good practice method would be just to focus on the basics like support, cord closure, tongue, jaw, twang things any good book will cover. then when you practice them focus some time on one thing, then a little bit on another instead of trying to do them all at once. also don't expect results to come that quick, without a teacher it will take longer so patience is needed, and a lot of the times it's trial and error and you have to pay close attention to how each way feels and how the sound differs from each way and compare it things you've read. for example know what constricting the throat sounds like, how excessive jaw tension feels. so in this i would say don't just get a book, but also read a lot on the internet especially threads on this forum going quite a ways back and bookmark especially helpful threads using the search function or just going back every few pages or so. also record yourself singing a lot.

another thing, i don't think technique should be focused on 100 percent of the time. of course you need practice time but also time to just singing without thinking excessively what your doing right and wrong.

here's some good older threads on this site to get you started

http://themodernvocalist.punbb-hosting.com/viewtopic.php?id=5774

http://themodernvocalist.punbb-hosting.com/viewtopic.php?id=6328

http://themodernvocalist.punbb-hosting.com/viewtopic.php?id=7650

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Now, I am confused. Matrix, you have a friend who is an opera singer and he will let you train with him? So, you already have the keys to the kingdom. So, I wonder why you would ask here for materials and books to read. Most of them will cost at least a few dollars.

And you've rejected buying a singer training system as being too expensive. So, how many books and other materials will you buy that might total up to one system? (Sorry, I have a head for math and I cannot stop myself.)

But nothing wrong with researching on your own, either. An internet search keyed to free pdf downloads on singing might be a start. If you have kindle or nook, search vocal techniques and choose one that fits your budget.

People here who sing with awesome results have already given you their best advice, which you have rejected. I am not trying to bust your chops and its no skin off of my nose. I am a good example of teaching oneself for decades. Just saying, just because the answer is one you didn't like doesn't mean the answer was wrong or not useful.

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I don't really remember rejecting multiple people's help... I remember telling one person that I already said I did not want to buy the four pillars currently because I had no money. I never denied that learning with an individual is bad, I said I know someone who could teach me. I never said that the four pillars was bad, I said I didn't have the money right now.

I did accept bigmike092's help... I gave him a rep point.

My friend, is a she. She lives across the world, so actually getting time to sing with her will be few and far between. But when we do it will be over skype. I do however have people at my church whom I can practice with.... I also can theoretically post videos of me singing and get feed back online for free.

books and materials: I can, and already have, found stuff online.... I am still looking for more, which is why I am asking on this thread. I do already possess various music theory books. I simply want to get books on singing.... That being said, paying 20$ for a book that will last me 4 months will allow me to have more time to save up for another $20 for another book that would last me another 4 months, etc.... The Royal Conservatory of music is what I was thinking of purchasing. They are well respected, have several members, and have been established sine 1886.

as per the math bit. ... 20$ for 4 months.... 12 months in a year.... 12/4 = 3. so 3*20 = $60. So roughly $60 on books a year. Add in the cost of lessons with me friend. Don't add in the cost of the books I already own. Don't add in the cost of free materials I find on the internet..... roughly $60 for mats, and between $30 and above, depending on how many lessons I get with my friend...

I also am alumni at a University that has a good music program... So I may try to see what they have online at the library there.

Jens answer was technically wrong for me. Not wrong for other readers... But keep in mind, I am the OP. I asked the question. I said I did not want to do X. And Jens said "do X". .... So... in math terms, if I say what equations will help solve for Y except for X and a student gives me X then they would be wrong.

Jens' answer is correct for other people that have the money though. But each indivdidual is different. Even the teachers here will tell you that each student has different requirements.

I, myself having been a teacher for over 4 years, and going to school for Psychology, and going to school for Education, will tell you, from an authority on the subject, that authority being, legally represented, by Canada, myself, that each individual is different. Each person has different needs. Each person needs to be taught different ways. And each person has a different economical background that will effect how they learn. Not every person can afford to go to private school. Not every person can afford a private tutor.

I do recognize that the four pillars is probably a good price, but it also is not being offered in an installment. It is not sold separately in different sections for more money. Speaking in terms of business and money, the product would probably sell more and make more money if it did offer the material in separate levels and sections.... And, if it can not sell like that, it is largely because the people that had the $20 to buy the first book and read it realized that it was not worth their money. It almost begs the question, is that why this product is only being sold in a lump sum form? I do go back and buy music books that have levels as I progress from level 0 to level 9. If the book is horrible I do not buy it, I do not use it.... Myself having been a teacher, the same is true for what I buy for my students. I will buy books for them that I know will work, that I know have an obvious and thought out learning curve. Besides, I also get a discount at my music store because I am a teacher.

any hu.... sorry if I got a bit defensive. I just want you guys to understand where I am coming from.

I understand if people do not know of some good cheap/free material that they can point me in the direction of. Me being an unemployed father of 2, with my 4 mouths to feed, you might be able to understand why I can't fork out large sums of money.

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It would seem that you being a teacher would already know the route to learning. Also having access to college material you would be able to access books that we would not have access to. The best book that I can think of is Singing and the Actor. It is true that I have never even seen this book myself but most of the forums that I browse mention this book whether it is a Rock forum or Classical or Music theator.

I am usually the quiet one who sits back and tries to learn from others. One thing I have learned Training and singing are the most important parts of making progress.

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True, I know the theory behind learning.

But knowing the learning curve for a specific field is hard. Teacher's have to research what to teach, and they can even get it wrong. Teachers often ask for help. I was taught in my BEd program how to utilize the skills of others when you yourself, the teacher, do not know something well enough.

I just tried to log into my alumni account at my school. Wont work. I emailed the library. I probably need to renew my barcode. But they do seem to have some information available.

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I'll keep posting sources I find on this thread. Feel free to do the same.

here is a book from 1686.

Titled: A New and easie method to learn to sing by book : whereby one (who hath a good voice and ear) may, without other help learn to sing true by notes : design'd chiefly for and applied to the promoting of psalmody, and furnished with variety of Psalm tunes in parts, with directions for that kind of singing.

https://ia601700.us.archive.org/12/items/neweasiem00lond/neweasiem00lond.pdf

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Just to clarify my last post you don't want the throat to be closed or excessive jaw tension, but I think as a beginner its something you'll do at some point because without proper support you'll probably be using excessive throat tension to hold back the air. But anyways, what I really meant was its good to become familiar with the sensations of how something feels the wrong way so when you eventually get it the right way compare how that feels in comparison so you can more likely correct it, and at least for when you get more and more experience. So taking excessive jaw tension example, open the jaw without thinking about it and try and notice how much tension there is and where. Then open it down from under your ears, and notice how it feels. Then try singing both the first way you did it and second compare the sound if there's any difference.

I'm not a vocal coach and I'm only a beginner so I wouldn't put too much stock in what I'm saying. But at the moment I also currently don't have enough money for lessons. So what I'm doing is constantly monitoring the sensations and where I feel it and it seems to be helping. Then when I learn something i compare how the singing sounds with this new thing and without it. Another example the tongue, sing with it resting in the back of the mouth, then sing with it slightly pressed to the bottom of your lower teeth ( like when you say hmm or ng). But there's a lot of things that go into singing technique and unlike other instruments you can't directly see what your doing for some of those things so patience and a lot of practice and a lot of reading is key especially without someone guiding you along.

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I don't really remember rejecting multiple people's help... I remember telling one person that I already said I did not want to buy the four pillars currently because I had no money. I never denied that learning with an individual is bad, I said I know someone who could teach me. I never said that the four pillars was bad, I said I didn't have the money right now.

I did accept bigmike092's help... I gave him a rep point.

My friend, is a she. She lives across the world, so actually getting time to sing with her will be few and far between. But when we do it will be over skype. I do however have people at my church whom I can practice with.... I also can theoretically post videos of me singing and get feed back online for free.

books and materials: I can, and already have, found stuff online.... I am still looking for more, which is why I am asking on this thread. I do already possess various music theory books. I simply want to get books on singing.... That being said, paying 20$ for a book that will last me 4 months will allow me to have more time to save up for another $20 for another book that would last me another 4 months, etc.... The Royal Conservatory of music is what I was thinking of purchasing. They are well respected, have several members, and have been established sine 1886.

as per the math bit. ... 20$ for 4 months.... 12 months in a year.... 12/4 = 3. so 3*20 = $60. So roughly $60 on books a year. Add in the cost of lessons with me friend. Don't add in the cost of the books I already own. Don't add in the cost of free materials I find on the internet..... roughly $60 for mats, and between $30 and above, depending on how many lessons I get with my friend...

I also am alumni at a University that has a good music program... So I may try to see what they have online at the library there.

Jens answer was technically wrong for me. Not wrong for other readers... But keep in mind, I am the OP. I asked the question. I said I did not want to do X. And Jens said "do X". .... So... in math terms, if I say what equations will help solve for Y except for X and a student gives me X then they would be wrong.

Jens' answer is correct for other people that have the money though. But each indivdidual is different. Even the teachers here will tell you that each student has different requirements.

I, myself having been a teacher for over 4 years, and going to school for Psychology, and going to school for Education, will tell you, from an authority on the subject, that authority being, legally represented, by Canada, myself, that each individual is different. Each person has different needs. Each person needs to be taught different ways. And each person has a different economical background that will effect how they learn. Not every person can afford to go to private school. Not every person can afford a private tutor.

I do recognize that the four pillars is probably a good price, but it also is not being offered in an installment. It is not sold separately in different sections for more money. Speaking in terms of business and money, the product would probably sell more and make more money if it did offer the material in separate levels and sections.... And, if it can not sell like that, it is largely because the people that had the $20 to buy the first book and read it realized that it was not worth their money. It almost begs the question, is that why this product is only being sold in a lump sum form? I do go back and buy music books that have levels as I progress from level 0 to level 9. If the book is horrible I do not buy it, I do not use it.... Myself having been a teacher, the same is true for what I buy for my students. I will buy books for them that I know will work, that I know have an obvious and thought out learning curve. Besides, I also get a discount at my music store because I am a teacher.

any hu.... sorry if I got a bit defensive. I just want you guys to understand where I am coming from.

I understand if people do not know of some good cheap/free material that they can point me in the direction of. Me being an unemployed father of 2, with my 4 mouths to feed, you might be able to understand why I can't fork out large sums of money.

No, thank you matrix, for the only minus point I have ever had here, since May 2010.

I would try to reply more but fear that my musings and suggestions would be more bad attitude on my part. believe it or not, I am not trying to stir your pot.

And I am out of this.

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My only suggestion is that, in my experience, people who are new to singing generally have a pitch and control issue. All the technique in the world doesn't help if you are off pitch.

Get a cheap microphone and guitar tuner. $50 or less at a local store. plug mic into tuner and hum. Practice holding the note so that tuner shows dead center pitch. do it until the pitch stays steady and doesn't waver. Practice different notes. After you've mastered that, start to use vibrato, lowering and raising pitch quickly while always landing back at center for pitch. This helps to learn and master pitch so you will always sing in key...and doesn't cost

much at all to develop.

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If you dont want to use a program, find a teacher.

If you cant do either, then sing and try to get a good quality with comfort, its all you can do.

Technical books without a fundamental understanding of how to apply it in practice will just create confusion. Specially stuff 300 years old like this book you mentioned.

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As a side question.... I have noticed that I sometimes get mild irritation of my vocal cords after I have been doing some singing practice. Not singing, singing practice. When I sing in choir at church I don't get this problem. But when I sit down and try to focus on extending my range and connecting bridges I get this sensation. It is not overly painful. More like it feels dry, if that makes sense.

You've got to watch it. If you are feeling any "tickling" or irritation it is not a good thing and can lead to vocal damage. It is an indication that you are not bridging correctly. Voice is not like sports where it is often said "no pain, no gain". But you probably know a lot about that having taught yourself other instruments. If you feel a tickle or irritation at all then stop for a few moments, maybe a minute and try again. If you can't seem to get rid of this then rest and try again the next day. The last thing you want to do is sing "through the pain".

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My only suggestion is that, in my experience, people who are new to singing generally have a pitch and control issue. All the technique in the world doesn't help if you are off pitch.

Get a cheap microphone and guitar tuner. $50 or less at a local store. plug mic into tuner and hum. Practice holding the note so that tuner shows dead center pitch. do it until the pitch stays steady and doesn't waver. Practice different notes. After you've mastered that, start to use vibrato, lowering and raising pitch quickly while always landing back at center for pitch. This helps to learn and master pitch so you will always sing in key...and doesn't cost

much at all to develop.

very helpful. I have been using downloaded apps for my phone. I find them easier to use then a simple guitar tuner. Though I do hear Korgs OT-120 is suppposed to offer tuning for different octaves; the apps seem to be the only cheap thing that can do it.

I also have downloaded the trial version of EarMaster Pro 6.1. It's very helpful with getting a better tuned ear, and it also has a section that trains your voice.

For Mic, I have my CAD M179. I just use that with the EarMaster Pro 6.1

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If you dont want to use a program, find a teacher.

If you cant do either, then sing and try to get a good quality with comfort, its all you can do.

Technical books without a fundamental understanding of how to apply it in practice will just create confusion. Specially stuff 300 years old like this book you mentioned.

lol. I agree that this book is very much out dated. ... that being said, I also enjoy knowledge, even if it is a bit useless. I figured I'd post that book because I found it interesting, and I enjoyed the fact that it was all written out by hand.

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If you dont want to use a program, find a teacher.

If you cant do either, then sing and try to get a good quality with comfort, its all you can do.

.

so your saying one can't make any noticeable progress without lessons? sure, it's much harder and longer but its not like it's impossible.

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