Neutral

[Matt]

Wee question: Am I correct in assuming I am in neutral all through this? And if so, how far up can you go with neutral?

[ronws]

It sounded neutral to me. How high can you go? I don't know. I've been told I sing neutral even when I thought I was twanging a bit. Which may only mean that my twang was subtle and sounded like neutral. So much depends on our perception and values we apply to that perception. And I'm not saying I'm right and others are wrong.

[Jens]

I hear mostly curbing

Helvetes bra sjunget matt,ett riktigt tjejjagarvapen!

[Matt]

Haha tack tack, I wish!

Wtf, curbing? Then I am completely lost in the terminology. Which mode is it that is limited in range again? *Google*

[Jens]

Overdrive är limited i range, curbing/neutral och edge kan du sjunga varsomhelst dock så kräver curbing och edge mycket mer stöd än neutral. Detta gör att du inte kommer komma lika högt i din curb/edge som din neutral.

Sedan kör du ju inte enbart curbing i denna du blandar även in en del neutral och din curbing är väldigt lätt. Om du lyssnar på vokalerna så lutar du extremt mycket emot curbingvokalerna ooo/ii på hela klippet

Edit: det är väldigt sällan man bara använder sig ut av en typ ut av mode när man sjunger. Det är det som är det fina med CVT's terminologi det är lättare att bryta ned en strof till små små delar och anpassa sångtekniken och struphuvudsinställnigen till detta.

[chele1000]

for me it says "the link is not correct"??? I can't hear it....:(

[Matt]

Does this work?

A lot to think about there Jens, tack tack. That would explain why I do feel more comfortable with the eeee and oooooo vowels I suppose.

Edit: changed link

[chele1000]

yes...ty!

I agree with Jens that it's not neutral. Don't know what curbing is so can't comment about that.

All I can say is ...Great Job!!

I would like you to record it again and this time sing it with more conviction. Like you mean what you say. :)

[VideoHere]

Does this work?

http://kiwi6.com/file?id=22jxou52ub

A lot to think about there Jens, tack tack. That would explain why I do feel more comfortable with the eeee and oooooo vowels I suppose.

nice job matt...!

[Matt]

Thanks Yeah, im probably sounding nonchalant because Im concentrated on staying in speaking mode.

So its back to the drawing board to suss out what neutral is then. How loud/powerful can curbing get?

This would have been my guess is curbing:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kt3cF1Dgo7w

[ronws]

By the way, that was wonderful. And well done on singing with an american accent. Anyway, curbing, I would think, depends on the individual singer. What if I stated that one could do it with strength up to D about tenor C? Then someone comes along and curbs higher.

[Matt]

Thanks I was thinking curbing is something I can experience as pressure against my top pallet, sort of in the center between my earlobes which I'm doing pretty much all through the second clip, especially higher notes at the end. Neutral I thought was more speaking level, which I thought I was doing in the first one. I can wrap my head around the top notes 'higher than' being curbed though.

[Matt]

Does anyone agree that I have weak cord closure and sound woofish especially in the first clip, and that they only come together reasonably at the top notes or am I imagining things?

[ronws]

Does anyone agree that I have weak cord closure and sound woofish especially in the first clip, and that they only come together reasonably at the top notes or am I imagining things?

I listened to it again. And it only sounded a little raspy, which is a neat effect and not a detriment, at all. I don't know how you were feeling when you sang it but I didn't hear anything that sound weak or even shaded wrongly. I could barely make out some nice overtones in your voice that almost didn't make it through whatever mic you are using (trust me, I know how that is.)

So, what issue did you have with it because no one has replied to your question until now. Which may only mean that I happened to be the one with free time.

I liked your version very much. As I have been saying to others when they have done well, you sang it like you wrote, which is just as important as any technique we might learn and apply.

[gno]

Matt - that sounds really nice. Good singing. I'm not sure some of that isn't neutral. You could be switching between Neutral and curbing. Neutral you can convert to airy or breathy without damage. The chorus where you go up to the G4 is lighter to me than curbing would be. Curbing (think of the sensation of crying) can be somewhat intense up at a G4 (of course not as intense as overdrive). When you sing it, can you add breath to it easily without discomfort? Curbing has "half metal" or more overtones - brighter than neutral. Some of the song definitely is brighter in spots which would indicate curbing.

[babystar]

Singing Neutral is like singing headvoice.

You have a nice voice, Matt.

[ronws]

I guess what I am saying Matt is that it may be in your head that you perceive these weaknesses. From the standpoint of a listener, you sounded fine, not weak or breathy. I would say it also depends on what you are trying to do with the song. In the original, they have Tommy Shaw singing it but he puts an edge on everything he does, which almost takes away from the ballad. I don't think they would have fared much better with Jack Blades, either. Those guys are wonderful singers but I think the approach was wrong. I think your arrangement and approach to the song gives the listener a better understanding of the emotion of the song. They should have hired you to sing that song.

[Matt]

Thanks for the encouragement! Yeah, the rasp is intentional, in fact I wish I could keep it at louder and higher notes, unfortunately my initial quest of learning to sing higher up in a clean voice means I dont really know how to get it gritty anymore (it used to be all grit and no tone).

Youre correct ronws, in that I feel my voice is weak in some places. I can get very loud, but that means completely leaving my speech level comfort zone, not to mention I also think my loud shout is ugly. The peculiar thing is, even though the top notes F# and G are sung with no physical effort and trying to stay as close to my speaking timbre as possible, it doesnt sound like me, to me. I think perhaps I was thinning it a little subconsciously because the original sounds so hysterically high (even though its only a full note higher than me)

Im glad I posted this though, because now I have a much clearer understanding of the term curbing. I had this idea that neutral would be sort of speech level mixed voice, which is where I thought I generally was. I'm still a little confused about the term neutral. I also thought I was sounding a little woofy but that seems to be mostly my imagination.

I'm not too excited about having a noticeable crying tone in my voice other than occasionally. I guess I need to learn to use it at its barest minimum, because I notice its a lot easier to ascend with a little cry.

As far as what I was feeling when I sang it, I must admit I was just concentrating on reading the lyrics and paying more attention to staying in tune, in time and at speech level than if I was just playing to the cat (who hates my singing lol)

Thanks all.

Edit: I'd also like to add concerning the actual choice of song, because Im a little embarrassed about such a soppy tune (lol), I only heard it for the first time a while back at the gym, where I could only hear the chorus, and while I think the chorus is a great chorus, I was disappointed at the verse and bridge, which I think are pretty cheezy 'Smokey - living next door to alice' crap...

[ronws]

Let me tell you about cheezy. The original album track and even the video had a rip-roaring solo from Ted Nugent. But in later radio versions and rock song compilation cd's they neutered Ted's solo and I was sorely disappointed. I have been a long-time fan of Ted Nugent. I have met him in person and have autographed copies of his two main books. His memoirs, "God, Guns, and Rock and Roll." And his cookbook, "Kill it and grill it!" He's a decent guy and a treasure to the music world and his big contribution to this song got muted to near nothing.

On the other hand, after the dissolution of Damn Yankees, Shaw and Blades, under that name/logo, formed a duet for an album and a tour, which I think is great. They are balladeers and their music should be heard, too. Plus, they can go a little more "unplugged" and do acoustic arrangements like yours.

As for what sounds like less volume, I would suggest watching Lunte's tutorial on "lifting and pulling back." You can get through a passagio by reducing air speed and some of the volume and get the note and ascend into the upper "head" voice and no one will know the difference in volume, especially if you move the mic as needed. Such as, moving the mic in closer for the "lift-up and pull back" and then back out again as you get above the passagio at greater volume.

[Matt]

As a litle curiosa: half of my dads old band went off to join and produce Nugent...Dad was not amused or very impressed lol. Actually, I was looking for a harder version but couldnt find it. I was surprised they didnt have a rockier version, since the chorus screams for it. All those violins seem very inappropriate.

I think I sussed how to add more edge to it without leaving my speech level thingy, which Im very reluctant to do (I really want my singing voice to sound unaffected), which is learning to add a little curbing in appropriate measures.

[ronws]

Well, I do have to admit that Ted describes himself as an "alpha male." It's his way or the highway. He's even had a clause in the contracts for band members that none of the members can be using illicit drugs or even smoke, especially on stage. But that's not totally out of line. Arlo Guthrie, when playing small clubs, requests no smoking during the performance.

[Matt]

Well, I know the drummer/producer Cliff Davies had some rather serious issues with drugs. Sadly, he shot himself a year or two back because medical bills for cancer were killing him, excuse the pun.

[ronws]

Well, I know the drummer/producer Cliff Davies had some rather serious issues with drugs. Sadly, he shot himself a year or two back because medical bills for cancer were killing him, excuse the pun.

We can't stop the world from turning. Steven Adler, drummer for Guns and Roses during their break-out success, had a heroin habit for most of two decades and suffered two strokes from overdoses. The second stroke left him with a speech impediment, if you ever wondered why he talks the way he does. But it was the resaon he was fired from the band. Guitarist Izzy Stradlin sobered up and then couldn't emotionally deal with the alcoholism of Slash and McKagan. So, he left. Then, Slash left. McKagan suffered pancreatitis and a ruptured pancreas from drinking and that changed his ways and then he left GnR. The only person to remain relatively clean and sober, even more so in later years, was Axl, and yet he gets the rep of being hard to work with. Actually, he is not. The reason the band has had a number of personnel changes since the turn of the century is because he doesn't want to hold anyone back from what they want to do.

Kevin Dubrow of Quiet Riot died from complications of a cocaine overdose. As did John Entwistle, bassist for the Who.

Sorry, we got sidetracked from your thread. I have a head full of useless trivia and it leaks out, sometimes.