Gravelly / raspy voice effect

[califauna]

Hi,

I'd like to know how singers add a gravelly/growl effect to their voice. I love it. It sounds so emotive, so passionate. I'd like to be able to do it sometimes, to add as an effect when I sing blues songs etc, preferably in a way that's not too bad for the voice.

Here are some examples, first male:

Joe Cocker -

then female:

Bonnie Tyler -

Whats going on physiologically to bring on that effect ? Whats going on with the vocal cords, larynx, voice placement etc. Is it compression, extra chest voice in the mix, hardcore vocal fry, combination of techniques? :/

Any drills to practice /achieve it?

Before you all say 'dont do it, its bad for the voice' - there must be right way and a wrong way to do it, as there are numerous singers who sing like that and DONT lose their voice as they get older.

Thanks in advance,

Dale.

[Matt]

The only way I know how is to sort of gurgle without all the saliva, 'vocal fry', which is perfectly or reasonably healthy. The stronger the clear tone lying underneath the gravel at the core, the more powerful, gravelly voice.

[califauna]

what does vocal fry sound like when its applied at the higher notes? Do you have any recordings? Any chance of a sound file/link?

I can vocal fry easily low down, but higher I find it impossible.

[Jens]

ronws how do you know it's his technique that has caused that? juding by that clip posted he's old as (*auto edit*), so you could prolly rule out bad technique. Bad technique presents itself very quickly, and if he's sung for that for many years it's probably not dangerous.

"But please, for the sake of your voice, don't sing like Joe Cocker. You should hear him lately"

Comments like this is something i dont wanna see on this forum, a sound per see is not dangerous, there are singers who have sung clear as a bell and lost their voices and there are singers who have 10 times more distorted tone and do fine.

Dont scare other people trying to achive a certain sound or sound ideal, it can be made healthy.

I did a quick explanation for an other forum about the falsefolds, maybe can give some insight !

http://www.speedyshare.com/files/23201867/distortion.wma

[Matt]

Cali, I'd say Paul Rodgers does that. Im no expert, but I'd say the tricky bit is remaining as relaxed as you are when you fry low down as when you do it high up to keep the fry.

[analog]

Jens,

link is f'd up.

[Jens]

http://www.speedyshare.com/files/23430719/distortion.wma

check thisone :P

[Rick Jones]

Thanks Jens! Awesome little demo!

[analog]

Great demo Jens!

[chele1000]

YOU rock Jens! Can I keep that demo for future use?

That was awesome...I was trying it as you were demonstrating...it works! Sooo cool...:cool:

[Jens]

ofc keep it im glad to help! Remember they key to make this work is by doing it alittle a day some minutes max, then the tissue above the folds will become more and more flexible see it as stretching.If it hurts or tickles stop, as by then you will only train bad musclememory and your body will learn it's dangerous.

[Rick Jones]

Thanks again Jens, I'm nailing this now.....I could do it before but didn't know if I was doing it the right way...but now I can focus it. This forum is a great place!

[Martin H]

Great clip Jens

In regards to Joe Cocker, he also very often uses the "Rattle" effect described in CVT. "Rattle" is produced higher in the vocal tract than the false folds :

http://www.box.net/shared/7jo30e2l7t

:)

[Snax]

Jens that clip is SO helpful dude! Thanks!

What technique is used to get the sound when Jorn sings Whitesnake's "Crying In The Rain"? I REALLY like that kind of sound. It reminds me of Dio also. Thanks!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7TDEMNYLbl0

[ronws]

Yeah, Jens, I deleted my previous post. A) he sounded fine in the clip. Now I know my opinion is not welcome, erroneous or not.

I still hold the opinion that it is tricky to do this timbre without damaging yourself. Even in your clip, you point out that done improperly, it can lead to damage or at least strain.

Aside from that, I liked your share file and yes, with proper vocal effect, one could approximately the gravelly sound he got.

[VideoHere]

Hi,

I'd like to know how singers add a gravelly/growl effect to their voice. I love it. It sounds so emotive, so passionate. I'd like to be able to do it sometimes, to add as an effect when I sing blues songs etc, preferably in a way that's not too bad for the voice.

Here are some examples, first male:

Joe Cocker -

then female:

Bonnie Tyler -

Whats going on physiologically to bring on that effect ? Whats going on with the vocal cords, larynx, voice placement etc. Is it compression, extra chest voice in the mix, hardcore vocal fry, combination of techniques? :/

Any drills to practice /achieve it?

roger kain's book? w/ cd exercises are fantastic for this development.

there's some crazy ass exercises on those cd's!!!

immensely helpful.

that's what helped produce that scream i posted a while back.

here's some helpful items i've learned.

to do these types of sounds, you must have support, and focus the sound in the nose and mask and stay away from the throat. the throat must be relaxed and open.

these sounds are very much an "act"..... "act" the sound.

when you're shooting for a paul rodger's sound, think "sexy"

when you practice them, you really have to let go, don't hold it back!

try his exercises!!!

[Steven Fraser]

Yeah, Jens, I deleted my previous post. A) he sounded fine in the clip. Now I know my opinion is not welcome, erroneous or not.

Ronws: I sure enjoy reading what you write. Your opinion is very welcome, at least by me. Please don't let the sometimes-argumentative style of discourse here dissuade you from expressing your own opinion on the topic at hand.

Not only are many here learning how to sing, but also learning how to discuss singing, i.e., getting a handle on terminology... mixing different levels of experience with the challenges of using words to describe how (and why) to make sounds. We all experience challenges, limitations and frustrations. How we think about what we want vocally, and how we go about getting what we want... these are different person to person.

So, just because you got pushback on something you wrote does not mean you should delete. Maybe it means you should REVISE. I've done that many times here, when I have realized that my particular way of putting something did not communicate well with some folks.

And in those places where we disagree, we agree to disagree... agreeably.

[Jens]

"Yeah, Jens, I deleted my previous post. A) he sounded fine in the clip. Now I know my opinion is not welcome, erroneous or not."

Dont take stuffs so hard, when you are wrong you learn something see it that way. It's just that, it's very common to put together vocaldamage with a soundideal and we know now thanks to forums like this thats not the case.

If you would have known the voice as I do you would have an easyer time understanding why i responded the way i did.

But let me explain, one of the biggest voicekillers is fear, when you are afraid of your voice. This causes constriction, it's the same as knowing when someone is about to hit you. Then you tense up...

I dont want anyone fueling the old beliefs atleast not anyone from this forum, a sound is just your folds vibration and manipulation of the vocaltract, if you strain doing that manipulation then you hurt yourself, íf you dont you will be fine.

And if you dont think ive changed my opinion of something i welcome you to read the thread distortion in the whistleregister here in the forum

Snax: mix my clip with martins rattle clip and you have what jorn uses, distortion with rattle ;)

[Snax]

Snax: mix my clip with martins rattle clip and you have what jorn uses, distortion with rattle

I wish it was that easy! lol

I'm still learning how to do some of the various distortions without constriction. I have gotten a grasp of the Brian Johnson sound pretty well recently but this Dio/Jorn/Coverdale sound has me baffled. I seem to get too thin sounding when I sing above a certain pitch. The line in Crying in the rain at the beginning for example where he sings "A woman goes crazy with the thoughts of retribution..."

Jorn's voice sounds to open and big on notes where I feel choked and constricted. Could it just be that my muscles aren't developed enough yet to achieve that type of sound?

[HolaChau]

I got a but curious abut what metal singers do (I don't know the actual genre name, those singers who sing all disorted and "dark", I'll ask a friend for an example and post it here).

Is it just the dissortion effect but without the true folds making a sound?

[Jens]

Snax, it's probably the underlying "mode" you have a problem with, Jorn is pretty good with very high overdrive and edge, wich has a fuller quality then for instance high curbing.

Martin is a bitch on demonstrating sounds like this, so il pass the ball to him! Martinrobot assemble! Provide us with some high overdrive/edge distortions! :D

[jonpall]

To make it better, perhaps Martin could show us some high, distorted notes in all 4 CVT modes? :)

[Freddie]

That coverdale-distortion is something I would refer to more as compression. I look at it like balancing. Too much compression and you constrict too much and too little and the effect is not reached. But i believe it takes effort but youll build the stamina.

I use this kind of distortion alot and sometimes I do the kind that Jens showed which is much lighter in the production, I would say, at the same time more intense in the sound it produces.

[Jens]

Freddie you dont think it's because your using a diffrent underlying mode, i usually use MLN and youre more of a overdrive/curber?

[Freddie]

probably

I still do feel two different sensations and get two different sounds. One being more intensive/focused and one being more compressed/forced

But yeah it is probably the underlying mode that shifts, it makes sense.