Oversinging???

[ronws]

Martin's book of the interviews with the pros of hard rock singing distills to these three principles, repeated by every one of those singers, some with more than 40 years as a pro, not 40 years of learning and then pro, I mean, 40 years of getting paid to sing.

1. Hydration.

2. REST

3. do what it is that your voice will do, don't do what it will not do.

But, yeah, what the heck do they know? They can't know as much as we guys do, sitting in our chairs in the den or study, on our computers. We have broadband, we really must know.

Okay, off my soapbox ....

[VideoHere]

xamedhi and owen,

i can't make you believe this, but like i said before, you can do just as much if not more damage undersinging than oversinging.

take it from my this little cutie below. she belts to get the job done.:

(watch closely and you see the lower abs move in.)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KhMROyxR1vo

[Owen Korzec]

Bob I know under singing is just as bad. That's not my point.

The point I made was you can't just go ahead and sing forever, infinite singing with no rest periods - that's a fast track to vocal damage, even with great technique. That should be an obvious truth, but you seem to be denying it and I don't know what has gotten into your mind to think that just because you have great technique, overuse is no longer and concern and you'll never have to rest your voice again. That mentality will just bring back another set of polyps.

Every vocal health article will always mention both misuse and overuse. Because the cause of damage could be either or both. Just because you aren't misusing your voice doesn't make you immune to overusing it!

[Felipe Carvalho]

Even with proper technique, there is a limit, you become more efficient, not super-human.

Its part of hygiene, to control the ammount of usage, and rest well to recover.

Also its part of technique to learn how to adapt your performance if you need to sing for longer periods of time. There is a lot you can do so that you reduce the ammount of stress. Whats important is not the ammount of time you have the mic on your hand, but the actual ammount of phonation you do.

[VideoHere]

owen,

i'm not saying i have perfect technique, and i get tired just like the next singer.

but i have gotten my support and breath management to a level (so far) that has made the vocal tract more isolated from the work.

the body takes the brunt of the singing.......i wish i could explain it better for you...but that's the best way i can explain it.

[Owen Korzec]

owen,

i'm not saying i have perfect technique, and i get tired just like the next singer.

but i have gotten my support and breath management to a level (so far) that has made the vocal tract more isolated from the work.

the body takes the brunt of the singing.......i wish i could explain it better for you...but that's the best way i can explain it.

I get this, Bob, I get it, you're still missing/avoiding my point. I don't even know what you're trying to say now. Are you thinking that I don't understand the idea of support and "redirecting" (not actually redirecting but I know what you mean) of tension? I've been working on it recently and have started to experience it personally, I'm a believer in it's importance, so let's make that clear. Yea, support helps a lot. The big reason we all should do it is because it extends our longevity big time. But not infinitely!!!! The highest form of longevity cannot exist without rest.

You can have the body taking the brunt all you want and even back off the pressure of the folds, but it does not change what the vocal folds are going through by the mere act of vibrating over and over again without rest!!!!

Here's an analogy: if you punch your arm repeatedly and it hurts and then some one kicks you in the face repeatedly and that helps "redirect" the tension, and then that encourages you to start punching your own arm much softer, it still doesn't make you arm immune from damage!!!!! Your arm will last last longer yes, but if you punch it softly, repeatedly, enough times, you'll still get a bruise.

Well Bob, I'm pretty much done, I'm sorry that you can't understand what I'm saying. This is simple physics and I'm amazed you're not understanding it.

My point is basically that support and hydration and whatever else you believe, is not the complete package required for optimum vocal health, without the important variable of REST.

[VideoHere]

owen, everyone has to rest..i agree.

but you can build up to be able to last longer, have more stamina, or be more resilient or whatever... you know what i mean.

when i was into bodybuilding many years ago, i remember how in the first couple of years i needed to take a good rest between sets of an exercise.

as the years went on i would notice, that i could do a set of an exercise and feel just after completing it, how i could do the same thing again with hardly any rest in between, or i could do supper sets and recoup very quickly.

it's the same with your voice, it learns to recoup faster or it can take more without breaking down so fast.

would you agree with that?

[Owen Korzec]

owen, everyone has to rest..i agree.

but you can build up to be able to last longer, have more stamina, or be more resilient or whatever... you know what i mean.

when i was into bodybuilding many years ago, i remember how in the first couple of years i needed to take a good rest between sets of an exercise.

as the years went on i would notice, that i could do a set of an exercise and feel just after completing it, how i could do the same thing again with hardly any rest in between, or i could do supper sets and recoup very quickly.

it's the same with your voice, it learns to recoup faster or it can take more without breaking down so fast.

would you agree with that?

Absolutely. We're on the same page now.

You were just coming across as completely anti-rest at first. I just wouldn't any less experienced forum readers to misinterpret what you were saying as arguing that rest is not necessary at all.

But it is totally true that the better you get at any skill the longer you stamina on the activity becomes and the shorter the rest time you need to recuperate.

[ronws]

Let me throw my two cents in.

Bob, I never thought of you as anti-rest. And at times, I have also misunderstood your words. But, essentially, the emphasis you place on training support is so important. The problem is semantics. Support does not always mean "push" or "heft." It means management.

Any muscle that is truly a muscle has a training effect. As it developes, it gets more dense, not bigger, so that it can handle the repeated load, not the "heavy" load.