Growling help

[Enander]

Hi, guys!

Started growling for real some time ago. Was inspired by the unusually harsh, cold winter ("vargavinter", as we call it here in Sweden), and all that shoveling made me angry. Haha!

It's plenty fun, but also plenty painful. Gonna regret it when I'm older, that's for sure. Even as I'm typing this my voice is under reconstruction from a "session" earlier this weak.

Anyway!

I'm stuck, and since I got good advice in the my last thread (Steven, if you read this: Thank you! I'm almost there.) I thought I might as well try it again.

My growl sounds mostly thin and dry, but I've got no clue how I get that wet, rich sound I desire.

I've even gone to the lenghts of recording myself so you can pinpoint my faults, eventhough I'm having a hard time displaying my singing. Guess I'm just too conscious about my faults and singing overall.

Therefore I'd like to point some things out before you listen:

1. It was made with a cheap computer microphone, and I was stupid enough to save the file WITH reverb. I know it might make things harder for you, but to my defense, this wasn't meant to be published in any way. Which leads me to...

2. Don't care about those high-notes, and especially not my screw-up! Haha! It was just me having some fun with some kind of wolf-meets-crow:ish sound.

I'm unable to record things whenever I want to. There are always people around me, and I just don't have the cojones to bust a gut; hence the poor sample.

http://www.box.net/shared/nzn8p4gbid

So, "Practice more, you whiny kid!" or "Oh! Here ye are, sir, a great advice of olde"?

I'd appreciate either way, so I at least know which path to follow.

Take care!

[Snax]

I'm not quite sure what it is you are trying to achieve? I guess your growling is pretty scary sounding if that is the intended effect and the piercing screams had a cool rasp to them. The thing with growling is that it is next to impossible to have any melody and the listener would surely become bored quickly? Perhaps you only use this on certain phrases as an effect, the same as many metal singers use high screams as punctuation?

Sorry I can't really offer any advice but it sounded like you growl better than most! ;)

[akarawd]

Hi Enander,

I liked the growling part, it sounds convincing and not thin to me. Besides a bit of producing will make it sound big and thick etc. in context with the music.

If it hurts though, I'd be very skeptical about it. I mean, is it just your voice becoming sore because it's strengthening itself or are you just tearing up your throat which eventually will set you back vocally ?

I've read your previous post so I wanted to ask you if you gradually warm up your voice beforehand and if you keep your body hydrated. If you do and it still hurts, I'd definitely try to find a different way to do it -

there has to be, so many people base their career on this type of voice.

[ronws]

Whic part tires you? The screamo growl or the high note? Both are well done. I've tried the false vocal cord growls and they are neat for a sound but they wear me out.

[Jens]

Tjena fredrik!

It would be great if you could post a clip of an artist or sound you want to be able to produce.

If the growl hurts you train it in small periods of time, like one minute maximum making sure it doesnt hurt. The important part is never let it hurt, then rest for 15 minutes and do a small 1 minute session again still making sure it doesnt hurt.

BY doing so the body will learn the coordination and wont be afraid of the sound. Do alittle each day and dont overdo it and after a while it will have setteled in your voice.

[Enander]

Snax, I agree with you. Growl tends to get tedious after a while... well, at least it loses it's effectiveness. I plan to you use it rather scarcely, but when I actually do use it, I want it to be good

Thanks for the kind words! Helps people like me getting off their chair, and do something with their singing.

Hi, Akarawd!

The thought about technically enhance it, has crossed my mind, and I guess it's ok to be pragamatic in that way. It all comes down to sounding good on the record, right? Haha!

You know, I don't really know whether my soar throat is due to doing wrong or just the old "break it down; get stronger". But, since my voice is totally (*auto edit*) up a few days after I've growled, I'm afraid it's the first option.

When I come to think of it, to growl with brute force doesn't seem very nice, but to be totally honest; it's the only way I know. Vocal fry doesn't say me anything, just like false vocal cords.

Sure, I've tried to read up on it, and I'm able to grasp the concept, but the execution itself is very hard to grasp just through reading... at least for me.

Yes, I DO understand the irony of me asking for help at this forum, but here I can ask if there are any unclear things.

Regarding the warm-up aspect, I assume it's inadequate since I've never gone to a singing pedagogue and filled my repertoire with warm-up exercises... and also being too stupid/lazy to read up on it

I just start with singing relaxed and carefully, and gradually empowers my voice. However, sometimes I'll even go all out at the first second. I'm just too psyched up to care about "such trivial things". Haha!

When I put these things "on paper", I'm making it very clear (not least to myself) that if I keep this up, I'm not gonna last long. A great wake-up call!

Ronws, it's the growls. Those schrieks feels just as naturally as talking. Could do it all day long without any repercussions, but the growls thrashes my stamina very fast. My totally obvious screw-up in the clip, is due to my low growl stamina.

Haha! Tjena, Jens!

Well, my greatest influence when it comes to growl is Micke Ã…kerfeldt. He's got nice articulation, yet still is able get down there and really make the subwoofer shake, rattle and roll.

Otherwise I'm bad at names, but http://www.youtube.com/watch#!v=3tj5v5wxWNw has a good sound to it. Doesn't sound like demonic PIG; just like a demon. Haha! Would be nice to take my growl in that direction, while still maintaning some articulation.

Not sure if it's possible, and for all I know, it can have been pitched down.

Ah, at first I was very careful with my growls. Mostly because I didn't know if I was doing it correctly, but then I got fed up and went all out... but, you're right, I really should slow things down.

I'm just getting into russian basso profondo/profundo. It's sick, and it might help me growl better and make it less painful.

Thanks for all the ansewers! It has helped me.

Perhaps not with my growling per se, but with my attitude towards the training regarding growl. Easier to see/notice things when it's spoken out loud.

[Jens]

Well fredrik, I personaly find it okay to go allout, more then often thats a better approach than holding back. But if your not fully secure in your growl going all out for 30 mins might not be the best idea, i do my fare share of "dangerous sounds" and ive trained them the same way shorter periods of time making sure it doesnt hurt. After some months im comfortable with it and can add them to songs ect.

Well just listened to that clip, and when your using growl that low it's probably impossible to have any articulation at all. I dont have to be pitched down there sure are people out there who can sound like that. Do you have the CVT book? if not get it and you can also checkout their homepage, if i dont remember wrong they had a thread that broke down mickes growltechnique :P

[Enander]

Well fredrik, I personaly find it okay to go allout, more then often thats a better approach than holding back. But if your not fully secure in your growl going all out for 30 mins might not be the best idea, i do my fare share of "dangerous sounds" and ive trained them the same way shorter periods of time making sure it doesnt hurt. After some months im comfortable with it and can add them to songs ect.

Well just listened to that clip, and when your using growl that low it's probably impossible to have any articulation at all. I dont have to be pitched down there sure are people out there who can sound like that. Do you have the CVT book? if not get it and you can also checkout their homepage, if i dont remember wrong they had a thread that broke down mickes growltechnique

Yeah, the importance of reasonable duration is certainly something I've taken to heart after these posts.

Haha! As I expected, but I will try to assimilate that gory sound as far as I can without losing a significant amount of pronunciation

I don't even know what the CVT book is. Tried google it, but without luck. Just some vague references to it.

I get the feeling it's quite indispensable, and if it is, I sure would know what it is and where I can get it! Haha!

[gno]

Enander - I think your growl sounds great. It doesn't sound thin and dry to me - it certainly sounds full, round and big. maybe you are being overly critical of yourself? But doing it healthy is critically important. Jens advice is great and the CVT book explains a lot.

Here is the CVT link where you can get the book:

http://www.completevocalinstitute.com/

[Enander]

Enander - I think your growl sounds great. It doesn't sound thin and dry to me - it certainly sounds full, round and big. maybe you are being overly critical of yourself? But doing it healthy is critically important. Jens advice is great and the CVT book explains a lot.

Here is the CVT link where you can get the book:

http://www.completevocalinstitute.com/

Thank you very much, guitartrek! Both for the compliment and that link!

I'm buying it right away, but the question is: swedish or english? ;P

I'm afraid some things will get lost in translation, but since she apparently is danish I guess the english version might be just as "lost" as the swedish.

Again, thank you!

[Jens]

swedish version is very good, it's one of the newer editions so i recommend it :P