Why I can't improve myself?

[kengperapol]

I have sung for 4 years but I still feel like I'm a beginner . I've tried many home course singing exercises and studied with many vocal coach in my country . I tried to work very hard but maybe not smart . Some teachers told me that they don't know why I can't control mix voice and keep pulling up chest voice when singing . Some said that I should sing within my range . Am I hopeless ? I keep telling myself that I must not give up .

Is there anyone that ever face the same situation as me ? Could you tell me how to improve myself and be better singer ?

[Jens]

It takes time as hell, when i had sung 4 years i had almost seen no results... Dont stress itr work out your voice, remember our voices mature very diffrently.

[Steven Fraser]

I have sung for 4 years but I still feel like I'm a beginner . I've tried many home course singing exercises and studied with many vocal coach in my country . I tried to work very hard but maybe not smart . Some teachers told me that they don't know why I can't control mix voice and keep pulling up chest voice when singing . Some said that I should sing within my range . Am I hopeless ? I keep telling myself that I must not give up .

Is there anyone that ever face the same situation as me ? Could you tell me how to improve myself and be better singer ?

kengerapol: Yes, everysinger struggles at some level or another. Please be patient with yourself.

If your vocal coaches have not known how to resolve the issues with producing mix voice, then they have not been good coaches for what you needed to learn. This circumstance happens in many student/teacher relationships, where the teacher's experience and approach is not suited to address the particular needs of the student.

If you do not mind me asking, how do you know that you are 'pulling up chest', that you are not getting into 'mix'? Are you having difficulty bridging into your top voice?

If you would write back and tell us ua little about your particular circumstances... for example, what exercises you are doing to approach mix, then we can give some suggestions of other things you may try. Also, if you could mention your range, that would be helpful.

[Rick Jones]

I feel just the same, if it's any comfort to you to know others are in the same boat....I'd dearly love to feel like I was capable, but I work really hard and nothing seems to change.

[VideoHere]

I have sung for 4 years but I still feel like I'm a beginner . I've tried many home course singing exercises and studied with many vocal coach in my country . I tried to work very hard but maybe not smart . Some teachers told me that they don't know why I can't control mix voice and keep pulling up chest voice when singing . Some said that I should sing within my range . Am I hopeless ? I keep telling myself that I must not give up .

Is there anyone that ever face the same situation as me ? Could you tell me how to improve myself and be better singer ?

hey man, welcome to the club! you are not alone...there are days where i'm one big mistake, but you'll get days where you can't believe what came out of your mouth.

plateaus are inevitable....i'm trying to grow my range and adapt to differing sensations in the vocal mechanism.....

i've resigned mself to the fact like jens said it's gonna take a while but you've got to celebrate your achievements in the interim.

why don't you post a sample...sometimes you're actually better than you think you are!

[kengperapol]

Thank you all .

I am a baritone my range is F#2 to B5 . But it difficult when I want to sing over the first bridge . It seem like I can get into mix but I have to push air pressure so much that make me very tired . For example , I do Brett Manning's Nay exercise . When it come over Ab4 , I have to push air pressure or it'll be edgy head voice like . I know , it's not the right way to do but I can't get out from this tension . I can't even sing a song that higher than E4 because it's sound really bad when I want to sing high.I know that everything take time but a little progress in a year can encourage myself . However , I am struggling and don't have any progress in this past 2 - 3 years . Here is my voice sing You raise me up : http://www.box.net/shared/nmuorx0b7f . I recorded it awhile ago . It sounds awful . Any suggestion will be very appreciate .

[Sheepdog]

Thank you all .

I am a baritone my range is F#2 to B5 . But it difficult when I want to sing over the first bridge . It seem like I can get into mix but I have to push air pressure so much that make me very tired . For example , I do Brett Manning's Nay exercise . When it come over Ab4 , I have to push air pressure or it'll be edgy head voice like . I know , it's not the right way to do but I can't get out from this tension . I can't even sing a song that higher than E4 because it's sound really bad when I want to sing high.I know that everything take time but a little progress in a year can encourage myself . However , I am struggling and don't have any progress in this past 2 - 3 years . Here is my voice sing You raise me up : http://www.box.net/shared/nmuorx0b7f . I recorded it awhile ago . It sounds awful . Any suggestion will be very appreciate .

Hi, awesome, I'm glad you posted that audio clip.

The first thing to note; your pitch sounded pretty good to me. I definitely think you have the potential to be a great singer. So let's talk about what you can do.

Here's your first problem; you're singing like someone's trying to sleep in the same room. This is giving you a breathy, shaky, "held back" sound. This is how I started too, because I felt I wasn't "good enough" and that it would be embarrassing if I really got loud and confident and "into it". But this is what you have to do. If you keep training on that held back sound, you're not going to get better at a resonant, rich tone.

I think this video will really help you, starting at 2:05:

Also, you should try doing a really buzzy hum that makes the front of your face vibrate, and then opening that up into a vowel while keeping that buzz. Don't worry about being loud!

Now, an airy sound may or may not be what your ultimate goal is, but it is NOT a good sound to start and train with. So for now, get rid of the breathiness and sing with the same fullness you speak with.

The other problem is your vibrato... it sounds like you're trying to force it by "panting". Get out of the habit of doing this. I know Brett Manning and other teachers try to "train" vibrato, and I've tried their methods too, but having just recently discovered my natural vibrato I think that forcing it only leads to unnecessary constriction and confusion, and takes your attention off of the other parts of singing. So don't try and force that vibrato in, at least for now.

As for high notes, the term "mixed voice" isn't very popular on this forum. It is a confusing term that is never properly defined. For now, what you should practice is getting lighter as you go higher. Singing Success tries to say that head voice and falsetto are two different things, but they are not, and it's confusing to say that they are. Falsetto is just a less adducted (more airy) form of head voice. So for now, when singing higher, sing it in a light falsetto/head voice. After you start doing this, there are exercises and techniques that will turn a falsetto sound into a strong chesty sound, but you have to be comfortable with backing off on the pressure as you go higher first.

I'm sure other people will be able to give more tips, but I hope you get something out of my post. Don't give up singing! :)

[classical guitar]

To help further...

I agree with the last post completely.

A great piece of advice I can personally give you from someone who suffers from a few singing ailments, but still manages to pull of great full voiced rock tones... Find some very easy exercises that you can do on a daily basis to evaluate your voice strength.

The buzzy hum is a good idea but only if it is an efficient one. A good check on this is doing the breath exercise where you hiss air out the mouth sounding like a leaky basketball. Then do the same thing with a easy note in your range. You'll end up making a resonant "zzzz" sound. Ideally, you want to be able to do at least 40 seconds of the "zzz" sound. Once you get this type of efficiency it shouldnt be hard to get more control above those pesky breaks all of us mere mortal singers have trouble with.

You might even try some sirens on the resonant "zzz". Or as Stephen would say... semi-occluded resonant consonants

[WebAndNet.com]

"Why I can't improve myself?"

Many, many possible reasons. One approach: the question you ask is no different from that of a person with a compulsion of some kind trying to change. He tries psychotherapy (this is like talking and listening therapy, in singing, it's similar to being individually coached), listening to self-help tapes (like buying do-it-yourself-singing-lessons), practicing new behaviours (this is like practicing scales), using nicotine patches, drinking, drugs, etc. Something's not working--compulsion remains--analogously, singing remains same.

People are very complicated. I don't think your issue has to do with the effort and length of practice. I believe it is because the complicated problem hasn't been diagnosed. Once diagnosed, changes will be very rapid.

My personal view is that a lot of the therapeutic training from the East can help; and I took some of its principles and applied these toward my in-the-works blog, www.vocalposture.com .

[Matt]

It sounds to me that you're just inches away from a break through. IMO, sounds like you have good fold closure in intervals, but you weave in and out of good closure and bad closure and the vibrato seems to be involved in them flapping apart. I think you should ditch the vibrato (at least when practicing) and sing whole notes on the sound you have on the strong part of your vibrato as you would if you did a siren.

Lets say this represents your vocal folds during your vibrato:

|| is the strong part with good closure between your folds and,

| | is the quiet part of the vibrato with weaker closure.

You, imo, are singing like this:

|| | | || | | || | |

skip the: | |

and sing on this: ||

Hope that doesnt sound completely incomprehensible...

[kengperapol]

Thank for all tips and suggestion . I usually do Buzzy Hum as my daily warm up . Maybe I shouldn't do the vibrato for awhile if it make my closure weaker .

Sheepdog :thanks for the video . I'll try doing as he says . I can do head voice but it's seem like a switch . Like Chest voice is switch A and Headvoice is switch B . My last vocal coach give me many exercise to do headvoice in low notes to get connect with chest voice . But it still much tension when I try to go high . Many people tell me "go light first" but yeah I go with headvoice for about half year and I still can't go up there with stronger voice .

classical guitar : What's semi-occluded resonant consonants ? Is there any example?

webandnet : I'll try to read your blogs . Where should I start?

Matt : It's not too complicate . I understood . But why my closure come with some tense ? Is there anyway to get out that stress?

[Matt]

Well, first of all Im only an amateur and listening to too many amateurs could confuse you, but if you feel too strained during the closure, perhaps you're exaggerating it? This whole singing lark is very much about finding the balance, not too little but not too much either. This clip isnt an example of an exercise or doing it correctly, but its sort of an illustration of going from too loose folds, falsetto, to the opposite, too tense and you sort of need to find the correct balance in between, the most comfortable spot. IMO. I do feel you're close, you just need to sort out how that key you've got fits in the lock properly to open the gate. Make sure the buzzy hum is relaxed all the time, else you're doing it wrong.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uRvmPu_C3Fs

[Robert Lunte]

Thank you all .

I am a baritone my range is F#2 to B5 . But it difficult when I want to sing over the first bridge . It seem like I can get into mix but I have to push air pressure so much that make me very tired . For example , I do Brett Manning's Nay exercise . When it come over Ab4 , I have to push air pressure or it'll be edgy head voice like . I know , it's not the right way to do but I can't get out from this tension . I can't even sing a song that higher than E4 because it's sound really bad when I want to sing high.I know that everything take time but a little progress in a year can encourage myself . However , I am struggling and don't have any progress in this past 2 - 3 years . Here is my voice sing You raise me up : http://www.box.net/shared/nmuorx0b7f . I recorded it awhile ago . It sounds awful . Any suggestion will be very appreciate .

Kengperapol,

Great to hear from you and you will find some insights here with our powerful TMV Forum moderators. I echo Steve, it takes time and sometimes tears and toil to get the break through. It never ceases to amaze me how students of singing, the less experienced ones, are fully confused on what kind of commitment it takes to truly become a great singer. Im not suggesting you are one of these people, but the point is, this is not easy, but so many people think its just a matter of singing a certain workout and it will work. Apart from the complicated maze of understanding enough about vocal physiology and singing techniques, you also have to be prepared train physically. To really sing great, to really get to the good stuff... and namely, we would all generally agree that would include, among other things, the ability to bridge your registers and phonate with full "chest-like" results in the head voice while eliminating all vocal tension... its really hard bro... REALLY hard... but like anything in life, the reward is equally powerful.

Steve is right, I hate to say it... but given the success I have with my students and the honest fact that at TVS they get very quick results... if .... after four years, your still not bridging... then ill be frank with you... you dont have the right coach. Im going to "thump my chest" here and tell you that... if you train with me, I will gurantee you that you will get the results you are looking for, quickly! If after 4-8 internet lessons with me you are not radically singing better... Ill refund your money... thats how confident I am that I can help. Im not doing this to get another student first and foremost... I really care and I really want to help you... let have a shot at being your coach and I think I can put a smile on your face. (Fellow TMV team, please understand, Im not just shamelessly trying to sell a lesson here... I really want to help this guy and I have made a decision... Im not going to just stand back and not speak up and reach out to help these singers because of some percieved "conflict of interest"... because im the founder of this forum... Im done with that... My calling is to help singers and if I think I can help people, im not going to keep my mouth shut anymore... Im going to get involved in helping them).

As for your file you sent... someone else mentioned that you are singing like your trying to not wake someone. I agree. If you are going to workout the your vocal mechanism/s, you got to pick up your feet and move some air, contract some muscles (the right ones) and start running around the track. Sitting on your "duff" and passively singing windy and polite is NOT going to get you what you seek. You are a "vocal athlete"... you have to workout and train!

Someone else mentioned that "mixed voice" is not favored on this forum... well, I wouldnt say that... there are those that probably think its ok... but I dont mind pointing out that that individual was politely not revealing that he was talking about me. Its true, I dont like it. I believe, in most cases.. the term "mixed voice" confuses students of singing, especially beginners that dont yet have their head around teachnique and such... if someone says to me, "hey Rob, sing in your mixed voice"... I know what they mean... but developing students do not. To help you with this, I want you to stop worrying about some mystery, 3rd register, called the "mixed voice"... its creating an impediment to your progress. Here is a video I recently did for my buddies on forum that relates to this, please watch it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HNfpeHE6Wls

Now, if you want to get this behind you... stick with this forum and keep discussing with me and the moderators here... and contact me personally and lets get to work on helping you understand how to sing amazing, the way YOU want to sing and get you to a new level... I present to you, potentially a major break through for your singing... the next step is entirely up to you. Here is my web site: www.TheVocalistStudio.com

Hope this helps...

[VideoHere]

Apart from the complicated maze of understanding enough about vocal physiology and singing techniques, you also have to be prepared train physically. To really sing great, to really get to the good stuff... and namely, we would all generally agree that would include, among other things, the ability to bridge your registers and phonate with full "chest-like" results in the head voice while eliminating all vocal tension... its really hard bro... REALLY hard... but like anything in life, the reward is equally powerful.

i gotta chime in here in support of rob....

although i was only able to afford a brief trainiing sesson or two, (his rate is more than reasonable) i learned a hell of a lot from him and the 4 pilars set. the guy is really passionate about having you succeed. he really cares abut his students.

we really got into it during those lessons.

[ronws]

I, too, agree with Robert. I'm relatively new to this forum but I started working on my range and volume in 1988. So, I'm not any kind of "overnight" success. Most everyone here has been singing for years and still seek improvement, which is the main reason for being here. Plus, Robert has the techniques that will get their voice where they want to be.

All you got to do is listen. I'm amazed how much free information Robert gives away. It's because he truly loves to teach and share the passion of singing. But the singing, like anything of great value, takes work and sacrifice. And sometimes, a shift in paradigms.

[kengperapol]

Now, if you want to get this behind you... stick with this forum and keep discussing with me and the moderators here... and contact me personally and lets get to work on helping you understand how to sing amazing, the way YOU want to sing and get you to a new level... I present to you, potentially a major break through for your singing... the next step is entirely up to you. Here is my web site: www.TheVocalistStudio.com

Hope this helps...

I can't take Skype lesson because my internet connection is too slow and can only chat without video. I know that the price rate is reasonable and I really want to take a lesson. But I still have money limitation . Maybe I can afford the 4 pillars and consult with you by e-mail or chat without video . Is that OK to take 4 pillars and consult with you? I want to be your student but that's the most I can afford .

[VideoHere]

I can't take Skype lesson because my internet connection is too slow and can only chat without video. I know that the price rate is reasonable and I really want to take a lesson. But I still have money limitation . Maybe I can afford the 4 pillars and consult with you by e-mail or chat without video . Is that OK to take 4 pillars and consult with you? I want to be your student but that's the most I can afford .

if you want it bad enough you'll figure out a way.

[Matt]

I hope Robert doesnt get annoyed at me here...I do think he has a good trick which might be useful for you: Siren up and when it begins to get hard, decrease the volume and siren your way quietly, even very quietly if need be in the beginning, through the difficult patch. You should notice after some practice that a few notes higher up you can sort of lean back into some more volume. Also, this should help you with finding the right place in your throat to sing through the passagio, the right configuration.

[ronws]

Plus, there's Robert's other technique of getting into head voice earlier so that there is no break. This technique is used most religiously by the eminent example of Geoff Tate of Queensryche. Small wonder. Tate and Lunte have studied with the same instructor, in the past. In fact, Lunte's song, "Blue Rain," makes me think of the best of Queensryche, in a ballad. It seems to me that Robert uses the early bridge in this song. It is seamless.

[Matt]

Yeah, top down instead of bottom up. I didnt think I dared mention that though...:p

[ronws]

Yeah, top down instead of bottom up. I didnt think I dared mention that though...

I don't know. Usually it's Martin trying to bust Robert's chops on something.