Art Prince Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 Hi everyone! I've been practicing 4 Pillars of Singing for some time now and I can enter head voice with no break and that's great, but I just can't get my head around how to go back from head voice into chest voice. Every time I descend the scale (onsets)...I just collapse down into chest voice, what's worse, I fall an entire octave lower. Somehow my voice tends to skip one octave and suddenly drop from head voice an octave lower than it should. It's really frustrating so I am begging you to help. Has anyone ever experienced something similar or does anyone have some advice regarding this problem? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owen Korzec Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 You are probably starting too released and lazy on the support and intrinsic musculature at the top. If you start in falsetto you won't be able to get back down smoothly. Try doing a faster sweep up and down the range on the same breath and see if that fixes the problem. If so then its probably a support issue. So then when you back to the slower pillars sirens you need to work on how you onset the top note - make sure the appoggio and intrinsic and extrinsic anchoring is fully engaged as you start. Use a dampen, attack, or contract and release onset and make sure you are pushing down and out and getting a little diaphragm "kick" as you onset the note. And you have to really work to maintain that pushing down and out. Also be careful and don't let yourself constrict even though you're adding more compression. If you constrict you can go back to wind and release but then once you memorize the open sensation go back to the bulkier onsets as soon as you can because they'll really help you get more of a one-voice sensation happening. Also make sure you are doing the correct uh to eh vowel modification on the way down and in a smooth gradient not like an on/off switch. Oh actually most important thing. Get the bridging down on lift up pull back first in both directions and get really good at that (but don't neglect your medium mass training just spend more time on the LUPB bridging) and then when that's really solid then you can take the advice I listed above Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owen Korzec Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 One more point. When practicing a trouble bridging area like this definitely work with it on sirens or simple scales like the B&C scales, not onsets. And when you do the sirens don't hang on the high note, start bridging right away and go slower so you're forced to really tackle the problem area. If sirens are too hard right now you may find scales easier but use a critical ear to make sure you're not flipping on them. But also don't beat yourself up over minor pitch issues (yet). Take that approach first, go through the scales focusing more on bridging and the feeling of one voice, not necesarrily nailing the pitches exact, then I think you'll find the sirens a bit smoother. Of course later down the road when your bridging gets good start focusing more on pitch accuracy in the scales and also move on to the harder ones Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VideoHere Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 post a clip.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gno Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 The sudden drop in pitch as you flip into chest makes me think that you are starting in falsetto with no TA. As soon as you activate the TA (used for chest voice) you drop in pitch and and are in chest. If you were truly in head and hanging on to a tiny bit of TA you'd be able to smoothly make the transition. If not, it will be like a yodel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owen Korzec Posted July 4, 2014 Share Posted July 4, 2014 The sudden drop in pitch as you flip into chest makes me think that you are starting in falsetto with no TA. As soon as you activate the TA (used for chest voice) you drop in pitch and and are in chest. If you were truly in head and hanging on to a tiny bit of TA you'd be able to smoothly make the transition. If not, it will be like a yodel. exactly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lobster510 Posted July 4, 2014 Share Posted July 4, 2014 This forum really is helpfull, I've been having the same problem which I was trying to remedy with Q&R. As my head voice doesn't sound windy I assume that the same advice works. I haven't been doing C&R or A&R onsets at all, as they strengthen the intrinsic muscles am I right to assume that they also help to create more twang? Thanks in advance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owen Korzec Posted July 4, 2014 Share Posted July 4, 2014 yes, A&R and C&R can definitely help with twang but they also add mass which is important. Q&R doesn't really, so if the issue is you're starting at the top without enough M1 musculature (what Geno and I are really talking about) it's not going to help a ton. Q&R is more for if you are lacking twang and need to work on that specifically. It's a separate issue - you could be lacking twang at any mass, with or without a great bridge, etc. But A&R and C&R not only encourage a good balance of twang (C&R gets it going a bit more intensely) but also add M1 musculature making it easier to blend your head back into your chest because then you onset with chest qualities already in it - gives you less of a transition to make. But it's important to learn to bridge in a windy light way with lift up pull back first. I know it's annoying to train something so weak but it's really important to get that foundation down first Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lobster510 Posted July 5, 2014 Share Posted July 5, 2014 Brilliant! Thanks alot, this makes alot of sense. When I do succesfully bridge on a descending siren, I feel something else engage, I'm guessing that it's the TA muscles. But it's important to learn to bridge in a windy light way with lift up pull back first. I know it's annoying to train something so weak but it's really important to get that foundation down first So that you can get good placement and disengage the constrictors first..... So I'll be sure to do these onsets later in my workout then. Thanks guys for your consistently helpfull advice ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khassera Posted July 5, 2014 Share Posted July 5, 2014 You're welcome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimR Posted July 5, 2014 Share Posted July 5, 2014 Minor complaint, there isn't an FAQ here, so figuring out what A&R, Q&R, LSMFT etc isn't exactly easy for a newcomer. TA and CT I've understood from doing searches, even some of the M1 H1 stuff, but nomenclature can be a barrier especially if it's specific to a method AND an acronym. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D.Starr Posted July 6, 2014 Share Posted July 6, 2014 Ahh yes, do be prepared to be confused. Many don't seem to have a layman's filter. Here's a link to explain the whole TA and CT. http://completevocalinstitute.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=9907 I keep away from the whole M1 and M0 BS, that's just another way of saying head, chest blah blah blah. But you are correct, there should be a sticky thread explaining these basic acronyms etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lobster510 Posted July 6, 2014 Share Posted July 6, 2014 You might be right, however in this case the person that started the thread already stated the method Hi everyone! I've been practicing 4 Pillars of Singing for some time now and the anacronym was explained attack, or contract and release onset Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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