question about the bass singer range extension myth

[mpropelus]

Is it proven that even a bass singer can sing higher than his current vocal range through training? Physiology/Vocal Anatomy wise how will this be possible?

Thanks

[Steven Fraser]

Is it proven that even a bass singer can sing higher than his current vocal range through training? Physiology/Vocal Anatomy wise how will this be possible?

Thanks

mpropelus: Assuming that the bass has not discovered how to sing well in head voice, the answer is yes. That does not mean that there will not be challenges. And there is some variation by type of bass voice.

What is your current range?

[Rick Jones]

This is me pretty much, I would guess I am bass baritone, E2 on a rested voice being my lowest usable pitch it seems, and just learning to use my head voice, however when I discovered what CVT calls "curbing" feels like, I found the passagio useable, if only for rocky sounding stuff at present.

But I always imagined my voice was too low to sing many songs, songs that I am getting now.

[WebAndNet.com]

It's difficult to extend the range beyond what the vocal cords are capable of doing, but it is significantly easier to amplify vocal cords sounds that are weak. Hence, the physiology is to create greater resonance in the desired pitch by adjusting the vocal tract.

[Jens]

"It's difficult to extend the range beyond what the vocal cords are capable of doing"

I completly agree with this, however the human voice can be trained to span more than 5 octaves. The lower the voice you have the greater the possibility of a larger range. My friend marcus is a bass baritone, expanded his fullvoiced sounds up to around high C D his headvoice up to soprano C at start he could not utter a single sound above high C.

Range extension is fully possible but it takes time and alot of dedication, thats why many people fail they just dont have the will and time to put in.

Ive taken notes so high it's ridicoulus and unusable and i would not call myself special in anyway, it's something anyone can learn if someone wants.

[Snorth]

Range extension is not a myth in anyway. Dedication can take you higher and higher.

I've increased my range alot in the one year that I've approached singing abit more seriously, but now I'm focusing on making my singing actually sound good in the whole range which in my opinion is more useful. ^^

Just listen to this

. If I told my band when writing a new song, hey let's put in a segment where I bark like a little puppy just so that some guys on youtube can get a hard on for my vocal range, I really don't think they would accept that.

I wouldn't mind being able to nail a soprano C like Vitas or Mark Boals though. :)

[joshual]

In my band, the bass player is a low baritone voice, and he sing pretty damn well in his high parts!

in our shows he sings the police songs (message in a bottle and so lonely) and U2 (new years day 1/2 tone up!!!), and omg his voice is awesome! He uses pretty well his head voice and "cover" a lot. I've never heard his break/passagio.

So yes it's possible to sing high and well if you have a natural low voice. And you can also sing songs that a tenor would never be able to do lol...

[Steven Fraser]

mpropelus: A couple questions for you:

1) Why do you think that range extension for a bass is a myth?

2) Are you looking to overcome a range limitation that you yourself are experiencing?

[James Lugo]

The real question is can a bass singer get a real usable range up there? I've helped guys over the years extend their range, most times it was not easy and many times you get a real constipated choked and in my opinion unusable sound. BUT it can be done and I have seen students really get some chops up top. The key is to keep the throat area as loose as possible because most basses and baritones for that matter don't feel the higher notes like a tenor so they are not comfortable up there. For me as a tenor it's not only easy to sing high but it's easy for me to live up there because it feels right and my ear really hears it. When writing songs my voice is waiting for the hook to explode.

So I don't know if any of this helps, my advice is good solid fundamentals, practiced constantly and keep the tension off the chords as you think down. Keep the jaw loose and the tongue flat and forward. As you go up, think down and move into your blend fearlessly.

Peace

James

[Jens]

For instance im a lighter typed baritone, ive worked alot with singingsuccess, CVT, and James lugosprogram is great for building range. No way i could have done this some years ago...

http://www.speedyshare.com/files/23560762/MLN_volym.wma

edit and if you wanna count whistleregister and fry then the sky is the limit...

[Steven Fraser]

All,

Since so many of us on this group are higher male voices, I thought I'd offer some thoughts on the challenges faced by the bass singer when it comes to range extension.

First thing to say is that the passaggio range for the bass singer is the lowest of all voice types... that is a big part of what makes a bass a bass. For the deepest bass voice type, the profundo, the passaggio can begin as low as the G below middle C, a perfect 4th below where it happens for many tenors.

The implication of this for the bass is that a great deal of the solo performance range of the bass is in or above the passaggio, and has to be managed with attention to registration and vowel choices in the same way that the tenor does in the range from Middle C to the G above.

The second challenge has to do with the length and tissue quality of the vocal bands. For many basses, the vocal band mass is large, and the bands themselves longer than other male voice types. This makes the speaking-voice range of the bass lower than most other male speaking voices.

The final element is in the realm of the listener's expectation. Though there are exceptions, bass roles and individual basses don't make it to broadway, pop or rock performing careers very often, and the voice type is rare among the population generally. Its rare on stage, and in life. Inspector Gervais from Les Miz, Johnny Cash, and the high priest Chiaphas from JC Superstar would be some exceptions. Even in the opera world, the true bass role is rare. The Grand Inquisitor in Don Carlo, Colline in La Boheme, Boris and Varlam in Boris Gudonov are good examples.

Just for fun, Here is a fairly famous bass song, in gospel style. JD Sumner, singing the tune 'Rainbow of Love', with the Stamps Quartet. It may be the only song I know that transposes DOWNWARD by whole steps in the chorus repeats. Yes, it does break off before the end of the song.

In case you are interestd, the last note you hear JD sing is the Eb below bass low C... Eb1

For another example, from perhaps the greatest american operatic basso of the 20th C, Jerome Hines, this recording of 'You'll Never Walk alone', as televised on Lawrence Welk. You can hear him fully in his head voice in the climax of the two verses, topping out at F above middle C.

[VideoHere]

Since so many of us on this group are higher male voices, I thought I'd offer some thoughts on the challenges faced by the bass singer when it comes to range extension.

no question, that's some beautiful singing.

steve, can we conclude that bass singers are unhappy "tenor wannabees" for the most part, or perhaps they are happy with what they have been endowed with?

what do you think? as an analogy, there are some overweight folks who are content being overweight, are most basses envious of tenors?

[Rick Jones]

Are there any excercises to improve the strength and quality of low notes?

I'd actually like to use mine and getthem stronger.

[Steven Fraser]

Bob: I have no idea. That would require speculative psychology Go interview a hundred basses randomly selected, and ask them.

However, I am confident that there are many bass singers, especially those that have not found their head voices, that would like to be able to sing a G or Ab4 or even A natural. Those notes are _written_ in some pieces. Heinrich Schutz wrote a cantata for bass that has the range from the low D to the A above Middle C. It can be done. The music calls for it. IMO, the bass that wants his most flexible and enduring voice should find the technique to do it.

[Steven Fraser]

Are there any excercises to improve the strength and quality of low notes?

I'd actually like to use mine and getthem stronger.

Rick: Yes, there are. I wrote some up a couple months ago in another thread. I'll find them and repost them here.

Edit: I have written a full article to post this on the main site, and will provide a link here to it..

[ronws]

I'm glad that we can concentrate on lower notes, for a while. Caiaphas was another favorite from "Jesus Christ, Superstar." I would say that the lyric, "We turn to Rome to sentence Nazareth. We have no law to put a man to death. We need him crucified .../" Is tough for me to do low enough with volume. His higher parts such as "I see bad things a-rising. The crowd crowns him king, which the romans would ban. I see blood and destruction. Our elimination because of one man ..." is easier. And of course, the other parts in that multi-role section are easiest for me because they fall into upper baritone and low tenor. "How do we deal with this Jesus mania. His half-witted fans will get out of control. We cannot stop him, his glamor increases. By each passing minute he's top of the polls."

The easiest part for me is the title role.

But I think we need to seek our best in every part of our range that we can do.

[Steven Fraser]

I'm glad that we can concentrate on lower notes, for a while. Caiaphas was another favorite from "Jesus Christ, Superstar." I would say that the lyric, "We turn to Rome to sentence Nazareth. We have no law to put a man to death. We need him crucified .../" Is tough for me to do low enough with volume. His higher parts such as "I see bad things a-rising. The crowd crowns him king, which the romans would ban. I see blood and destruction. Our elimination because of one man ..." is easier. And of course, the other parts in that multi-role section are easiest for me because they fall into upper baritone and low tenor. "How do we deal with this Jesus mania. His half-witted fans will get out of control. We cannot stop him, his glamor increases. By each passing minute he's top of the polls."

ronws; Those were the sections I had in mind too, from the original recording, not from the movie. In the movie, the high priest is re-cast as a tenor, and IMO it was not as threatening and conniving as in the original.

[VideoHere]

in a way, it's kind of sad that the record buying, non-musician, public oftentimes judge how good a vocalist is (they think one is) by how high they can sing.

[mpropelus]

Thanks for all the input! I truly learned a lot from this. I hope more and more opinions will be shared on this thread.

mpropelus: A couple questions for you:

1) Why do you think that range extension for a bass is a myth?

2) Are you looking to overcome a range limitation that you yourself are experiencing?

1) Based on my current experience and based on what I've observed from others. However I'm certain that this is just a temporary belief and someday there will be a breakthrough that will bust this myth IMO.

2) Yes I am. Personally, I haven't really seen/heard from-scratch bass singers that are trained either by SLS or any methods out there that achieved tenor-sounding high notes like those of Pavarotti, Steve Perry, etc.

The real question is can a bass singer get a real usable range up there? I've helped guys over the years extend their range, most times it was not easy and many times you get a real constipated choked and in my opinion unusable sound. BUT it can be done and I have seen students really get some chops up top. The key is to keep the throat area as loose as possible because most basses and baritones for that matter don't feel the higher notes like a tenor so they are not comfortable up there. For me as a tenor it's not only easy to sing high but it's easy for me to live up there because it feels right and my ear really hears it. When writing songs my voice is waiting for the hook to explode.

So I don't know if any of this helps, my advice is good solid fundamentals, practiced constantly and keep the tension off the chords as you think down. Keep the jaw loose and the tongue flat and forward. As you go up, think down and move into your blend fearlessly.

Peace

James

Very well said. This is the dilemma that I'm talking about--getting basses to have usable range up there. In today's contemporary music, the men's usable range is mostly found (sadly) on the passagio (approx. G4-Tenor High C)

[Steven Fraser]

Thanks for all the input! I truly learned a lot from this. I hope more and more opinions will be shared on this thread.

1) Based on my current experience and based on what I've observed from others. However I'm certain that this is just a temporary belief and someday there will be a breakthrough that will bust this myth IMO.

2) Yes I am. Personally, I haven't really seen/heard from-scratch bass singers that are trained either by SLS or any methods out there that achieved tenor-sounding high notes like those of Pavarotti, Steve Perry, etc.

mpropelus: For the bass voice, the resonance frequencies of the vowels are downward-shifted when compared with a tenor. This is particularly important with F2, the second Formant. Its the resonance that is tuned (by a tenor) with the 3rd or 4th harmonic of a note up in the top range... that gives that distinctive tenor top-voice quality.

Since for the bass F2 is lower, for the same note F2 will not likely tune to the 3rd or 4th harmonic... more likely either not tune well, or tune to the 2nd harmonic, resulting in a different sound.

Additionally, research has indicated a correllation between the center frequency of the singer's formant and voice type. For the bass, the center frequency is lower than it is for tenor. This makes the 'ping or ring' of the voice a bit different sounding.

So, a bass is never going to sound like a tenor on the same note. This is similar to the situation when comparing the baritone and tenor voices, but in the case of the comparison of tenor with bass, even more so.

That does not keep the bass from singing those notes... it just results in a different, and audible, resonance combination.

[gno]

mpropelus - When I was younger, an experienced voice teacher told me that I can learn to sing in full voice the same high notes I could sing in falsetto. I had a hard time believing him at the time. I couldn't really sing full voice higher than a G4 at that time, but I could sing way higher in falsetto. Well, after the last 7 months of extending my range I'm up to a Bb5 in full voice (almost at saprano high C). This is actually alot higher than I could ever sing in falsetto when I was younger.

What is the highest note you can now sing in falsetto?

[Rick Jones]

Rick: Yes, there are. I wrote some up a couple months ago in another thread. I'll find them and repost them here.

Edit: I have written a full article to post this on the main site, and will provide a link here to it..

My apologies Steven, but I can't see the link on my browser.

[Steven Fraser]

My apologies Steven, but I can't see the link on my browser.

Rick: The post has not been approved yet. As soon as it is, I will post it here. I would think that this would happen pretty soon.

[Rick Jones]

Rick: The post has not been approved yet. As soon as it is, I will post it here. I would think that this would happen pretty soon.

Ah I see, thankyou Steven, looking forward to the article.:)

[Steven Fraser]

All:

Link to my article about developing the lower voice:

http://www.themodernvocalist.com/profiles/blogs/developing-the-lower-ranges-of

Its also available on the main site in the list of articles.