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Somewhat of an odd question.

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fortheo
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So, I've been going back to the basics; all the way back to support. This is kind of weird, but when I use my diaphragm for support it kind of gives me the sensation that...well, that I have to pee haha. I'm not even joking. Just curious if this is somewhat normal or what.

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Don't relax your pelvic floor. Pretend you are holding in that piss you are feeling you need to take.

I read somewhere that the sphincters are somewhat neurologically connected. In order to help keep your throat from constricting you would also relax other sphincters. During support you would use the feeling of making the stream stronger not stopping it. Of course do not relax it too much, That could be a little messy.

By all means, correct me if I have been misinformed.

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it's more towards the natural process of defecation. was your bladder full to begin with? empty your bladder.

don't train support on a full stomach.

it's not the diaphragm, it's the lower core muscles that give you the support. you are learning to drop the diaphragm down, and suspending and/or controlling its return......controlling exhalation.

key is that you expand the whole area below back, sides, and ribs. you want to feel a sensation of inhaling silently and the air going down low......shoulders don't budge.

nice to hear you are beginning with this seriously important vocal technique element.

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it's more towards the natural process of defecation. was your bladder full to begin with? empty your bladder.

don't train support on a full stomach.

it's not the diaphragm, it's the lower core muscles that give you the support. you are learning to drop the diaphragm down, and suspending and/or controlling its return......controlling exhalation.

key is that you expand the whole area below back, sides, and ribs. you want to feel a sensation of inhaling silently and the air going down low......shoulders don't budge.

nice to hear you are beginning with this seriously important vocal technique element.

I wouldn't say my bladder is full, but I drink water A LOT throughout the day, especially in the summer, so I could probably go to the bathroom once an hour haha. So the sensation that i'm feeling is somewhat normal then? Thanks for the tips on expanding, I think I have most of that down; expansion in the back is still the hardest for me to notice though.

Thanks again!

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Phil is dead on here. I've been training support from him and the results are undeniable.

The sphincters activate in support, they do not relax. If they relax you get the literal "taking a dump" sensation and THAT is what leads to constriction in the throat.

This is what CVT means when they talk about how "lavatory support" (supporting like you're going to the bathroom) is incorrect.

If you relax them you can't build up enough intra-abdominal pressure because you're leaving openings and letting pressure escape. And building up intra-abdominal pressure is one key component necessary for powerful high notes without having to constrict the throat. If you don't build up the full extent of intra-abdominal pressure for a particular phonation, throat constriction is the result. So people may partially succeed at the "bathroom" support method (compared to no support) but they will have less range, more constriction, etc. than the folks who have sorted out the positioning of the pelvic floor and surrounding lower components of support.

Also true that expansion in the back is very hard when the sphincters/pelvic floor is open and especially if you're in an anterior pelvic tilt and look like you've got a beer belly...that whole setup is insufficient support. You can build up some pressure with it but depending on your goals as a singer, more than likely not enough.

When people are looking for those extra few notes of range they can't seem to get it's often because of misunderstandings like this about support.

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Phil is dead on here. I've been training support from him and the results are undeniable.

The sphincters activate in support, they do not relax. If they relax you get the literal "taking a dump" sensation and THAT is what leads to constriction in the throat.

This is what CVT means when they talk about how "lavatory support" (supporting like you're going to the bathroom) is incorrect.

If you relax them you can't build up enough intra-abdominal pressure because you're leaving openings and letting pressure escape. And building up intra-abdominal pressure is one key component necessary for powerful high notes without having to constrict the throat. If you don't build up the full extent of intra-abdominal pressure for a particular phonation, throat constriction is the result. So people may partially succeed at the "bathroom" support method (compared to no support) but they will have less range, more constriction, etc. than the folks who have sorted out the positioning of the pelvic floor and surrounding lower components of support.

Also true that expansion in the back is very hard when the sphincters/pelvic floor is open and especially if you're in an anterior pelvic tilt and look like you've got a beer belly...that whole setup is insufficient support. You can build up some pressure with it but depending on your goals as a singer, more than likely not enough.

When people are looking for those extra few notes of range they can't seem to get it's often because of misunderstandings like this about support.

A bit of this went over my head, but obviously I'm not peeing or shitting myself over here so I must be using the sphincters and my pelvic floor right ? I just notice the sensation of having to pee haha. umm how else could I say it. Remember those gradeschool days of climbing a rope in gym? lmao, that weak feeling when you climb the rope...yeah.

*edit* I just did some awareness exercises and what phil said definitely feels right. I tried to keep my support while focusing on the feeling you get when you hold a pee in, and it felt sooo much better. I've felt like that before at times, but never knew exactly how to replicate it on command, thanks for the advice guys!

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owen,

i understand that is your opinion, but it may not apply to everyone or be the sensation for everyone. pavarotti, jaime vendera, ken tamplin, and others stated it's very much like the sensation of defecation and i agree totally.

depending on how much this area gets exercised, you will feel the expansion and the "defecation" sensation as one.

the throat does not get constricted, in fact, quite the opposite happens.

the throat only gets constricted (regarding support) if you haven't trained to maintain the expansion throughout the singing phrase or line you're singing, or if you haven't learned to drop the breath in low or you overtank.

another point, support needs to in be in place before you begin to sing

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blow up balloons...lol!!!!

support is not that complicated.....it all depends on what you are singing and how you wish to sound. if you want to reap all the resonance, tone and volume you can while you're singing or you need to really apply crescendo and decrescendo.....learn it.......well.

to me, support is really what helps to really free the voice.

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Don't relax your pelvic floor. Pretend you are holding in that piss you are feeling you need to take.

This is really good advice and very simple to understand. I have been trying this in practice and it has become much more clear on how to support.

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Phil

Thank you for your advice! I have had some good results with your advice contracting the lower abs and a very slight pelvic tilt.

What I am doing is focussing on contracting the abs as low as possible - in other words, as close to the pubic area as possible. I try to do this to avoid ab tension climbing up into the solar plexus area. In other words, I am trying to avoid contracting the upper abs.

In addition to a very slight tilt (under) of the pelvis, I am contracting the glutes fairly strongly as well.

Are you in agreement with what I am doing?...trying to keep the solar plexus area relaxed/contracting of the glutes?

this is in agreement with what he has been teaching me.

but to be clear the solar plexus and upper abs should still have moderate contraction, just less tension than the lower abs.

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Just want to thank everyone who commented in here. I'm definitely getting better and (more importantly) more consistent with my support. Not relaxing the pelvic floor and engaging the lower abs has really helped a lot. Also making sure that I don't gain tension anywhere in my shoulders/neck as I go up scales has helped a lot. For some reason I think of it as holding my breath without my throat; instead I use my body: the lower abs, the diaphragm, the pelvic floor etc. It helps me a lot to think of it that way. It's weird how after reading a million explanations on the same topic, only one explanation finally makes it all click.

Anyways, thanks again!

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The more you engage these muscles, the more it allows you to expand your solar plexus.

hey dante, does it work the other way around too. like if you focus on keeping the solar plexus expanded, those pelvic area muscles will become engaged just indirectly, or do you think its essential to focus on the lower abs?

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hey dante, does it work the other way around too. like if you focus on keeping the solar plexus expanded, those pelvic area muscles will become engaged just indirectly, or do you think its essential to focus on the lower abs?

this is an excellent question but i think i know the answer - you have to intentionally focus on the lower abs and pelvic floor to get the solar plexus to expand. because the solar plexus expansion is simply a result of the added pressure the pelvic floor and lower abs create, correct?

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He Dante, I watched your video and it made me wander about something that I've noticed during my singing. Everyonce in a while when I'm doing my singing exercises I will notice my solar plexus sort of palpates like a heart beat. Is that just my muscle relaxing briefly?

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