Heart - Alone - vocal cover

[Gneetapp]

Hey guys, here is another one of the songs I've been using to practice my high range. Please let me know what you think.

Keep on Rocking! :cool:

[Olem]

It sounds a little too falsetto-ish yet on the high notes, Gneetap. But you could hit these notes and that is a big advantage. You just need to change the configuration a bit, get a more fuller sound. Good job!

[MDEW]

I don't know what to tell you to correct this but you seem to have intonation problems. Your pitch is so close to being correct that it is not an ability problem.

I want to clarify what I mean because otherwise you have a very good sound. Even though your pitch may be correct it sounds flat do to overtones that are not tuned in.

Take for example a guitar chord is made up of at least 3 notes. Strike them all together and you get one harmonious sound but if one note is off the chord doesn't sound correct.

It may be more of a tone problem than pitch problem. It happens with the lower notes also and if you get the lower notes straightened out it should help with the higher notes also.

[Gneetapp]

It sounds a little too falsetto-ish yet on the high notes, Gneetap. But you could hit these notes and that is a big advantage. You just need to change the configuration a bit, get a more fuller sound. Good job!

Hi Olem, thanks for listening and the comments. I think I did a falsetto in one of the highest parts, I think it was on the final "Alone"s and "bone". But I agree with you, it still sounds to heady, although I was belting. But this was the first time ever I could sing those notes. So, I know it will get fuller with a bit more practice, and I will probably get more comfortable with the highest note, and won't need to "fake" it...

Thanks again man!

[Olem]

Gneetap, maybe i should clarify myself. When i say falsetto-ish i don't mean that the tone is airy, just tiny and too heady.

[Gneetapp]

I don't know what to tell you to correct this but you seem to have intonation problems. Your pitch is so close to being correct that it is not an ability problem.

I want to clarify what I mean because otherwise you have a very good sound. Even though your pitch may be correct it sounds flat do to overtones that are not tuned in.

Take for example a guitar chord is made up of at least 3 notes. Strike them all together and you get one harmonious sound but if one note is off the chord doesn't sound correct.

It may be more of a tone problem than pitch problem. It happens with the lower notes also and if you get the lower notes straightened out it should help with the higher notes also.

Hey MDEW, thanks for listening and commenting. Maybe I'm just a bit off pitch? If that is the case, I just need more practice. If not, could it be that I used to much effects on the voice (chorus, bad EQ settings, delay, etc) and made it sound bad? Sorry, but I'm really not following what you mean. Anyways, I'll give it another listen looking for this problem. Thank you again man. Cheers!

[Gneetapp]

Gneetap, maybe i should clarify myself. When i say falsetto-ish i don't mean that the tone is airy, just tiny and too heady.

Yeah, I get it! Hopefully with more practice the sound will evolve and get fuller. Just to clarify, I'm still working to get this on my muscle memory, as I barely started to sing with my higher range. Thanks again Olem!

[MDEW]

Hey MDEW, thanks for listening and commenting. Maybe I'm just a bit off pitch? If that is the case, I just need more practice. If not, could it be that I used to much effects on the voice (chorus, bad EQ settings, delay, etc) and made it sound bad? Sorry, but I'm really not following what you mean. Anyways, I'll give it another listen looking for this problem. Thank you again man. Cheers!

I'm having a hard time trying to explain what I mean. Something in the tone is creating the elusion of pitchiness.

It may be too much twang, uncentered vowels or support issue. But when listening closely to your pitch I do not hear that you are actully off pitch. The SOUND is what is off.

I cannot explain it any better than that. I wish I could. I hear this often enough that it must be some kind of adjustment like larynx position or tongue position or soft palate.........

OR I am just a crazy old man hearing things and should be ignored. That is possible too. :o

[Gneetapp]

Hey MDEW, I'll give it a thorough listen and watch for anything unusual. It could be a number of things that I may be doing wrong, as I barely just discovered this coordination that allows me to sing in my higher range, and still need a lot of practice. Are sure is it not to much or poorly set effects?

Thanks again man! Cheers and keep on rocking! :cool:

[MDEW]

If you just discovered this coordination forget that I wrote anything. It is from learning a new coordination that you are not used to yet. It will get better. It is part of the process.

Sorry to confuse you..... just trying to help. :)

[Gneetapp]

If you just discovered this coordination forget that I wrote anything. It is from learning a new coordination that you are not used to yet. It will get better. It is part of the process.

Sorry to confuse you..... just trying to help.

Yeah, as I said, it could be a number of things. But I was just so excited when I got to sing this song that I had to post it. I promise you that it will get better and stronger, as I am still improving.

Don't you "sorry me", it is because of guys like you, Ronws, Olem, Owen, and others that I post this songs, so I learn to improve my technique. Thank you!

[ronws]

Vowels and articulation. You are throwing your self off, especially on the high parts by trying to speak. Instead, sing it. And simplify the vowels. You are, by means of dipthong, making 3 syllables in "alone" by singing ah - l ah oo n." Make it ah - lan. It's these transitions that are pulling you "off center" so to speak.

I didn't really hear any "falsetto," even if you think that is what you are doing. And this a great song for your voice, even if you do sing cleaner than Anne.

[Gneetapp]

Hey Ronws, thanks for stoping by and listening! Me and the vowels, and diphthongs...I really need to get a hold of this...eh eh. Regarding the falsetto or really heady tone, I think it was in "the bone"...eheh

As I told Olem and MDEW, I'm pretty sure it will get beefier with time and practice. Regarding the cleaner tone, that is all I got so far. I am happy just to sing this song. When I learn how to use distortion, it will be another thing...

Thanks for the nice words and the tips.

Cheers

[Garnet]

For me this was really really great until the chorus, which you struggled with. It felt shouted to me, but thin at the same time. I think that feeling stems from the sharp notes you had in there; you seemed to be over shooting in your attempt to hit the notes.

This song is huge and I think there are other songs out there that aren't as large a leap as this one, but will still challenge you. I think it takes a lot of guts to go for this song like you did, and props on that because your energy was fantastic, but I would work on your breath support, intonation, and control on this one.

I would love to hear some tenor-range, rock vocals from you - you should definitely check out Adam Lambert as I think his songs would definitely suit you and would be an apt challenge for you right now.

Kudos on the energy and verses, I would love to hear you re-try these choruses after some support and pitch work!

[Xamedhi]

Hey, Gneetapp. What I hear is: ( haha )

In the verses, the tone is mostly good. I think it's just your personality that makes it sound, well, like you. It's hard to explain, haha ( it reminds me somewhat of Axl Rose, don't know why )

And in the Chorus, the thing is, just like Garnet said, it sounds shouty. Thin, but shouty, which is pretty weird, haha. When I discovered the coordination for headvoice I tended to round and "OH/UH/OO"-ed everything, because it is the easiest way to stay in that mix.

And that is also what I hear in Bruce Dickinson or Fabio Lione, (who are the most operatical guys I've heard in the metal scene, btw ) and I tried to imitate their sound colour to sound "big", even though fold-ly ( haha ) I was not heavy or as adducted.

I suggest, practice the hell out of the coordination, and use more closed vowels so it is easier to stay in mix and it sounds like curbing or metal-like neutral. Then when you got a hold of it, start giving it more and more weight

( At least that is what I've done in my learning process, and it has worked for me So just my two cents n.n )

[The Aspiring Singer]

I actually kind of like the "falsetto-ish" sound because it's a strong sound and it feels more natural than the section leading up to it. Regarding what MDEW is saying, I completely agree. Maybe I can talk myself through this and try to explain. Not that I'm all knowing. I'm just thinking out loud and working it out as I go...

"Til now" at 2:07 - Spot on! Great tone. Great support. And then it loses a lot right after that. The intonation definitely suffers. I do think that it is slightly under pitch after "Til now", and the placement of the tone and vowels compound the issue. Try isolating the vowel and placement that you use on the word "now." Then try singing the whole section from "Til now" all the way to "chills me to the" on that same vowel. The vowel that you have on the word "now" sounds like "nah" to me. So sing the whole section on "Nah nah.... nah nah nah nah nah nah nah...." As you get higher and higher on "I always got by" (but still on the "nah" vowel), keep the "nah vowel consistent but bring the placement up into a more nasal resonance. Remember to keep the throat relaxed (as much as possible ) and keep the support going lower and lower.

I think that "bone" is a slightly cooler tone, but I don't think it sticks out too much.

All of that being said, it sounds a little percussive on the word emphasis. You may think that musical phrasing doesn't matter at this point, but I think it could actually help you with the energy that it takes to sustain the high notes for such a long time. If you focus on the horizontal phrasing instead of nailing each note, it may help you relax the right part of the vocal mechanism (throat) and strengthen the support underneath it. For instance, instead of singing "HOW! DO! I! GET! YOU! A!-LONE!", try "HOW do i GET you a-LONE." The cadence feels more natural as if you were speaking it. You can even add a physical gesture to reinforce the support of the horizontal phrase. Maybe a circular motion with your hands with the heaviest notes having the strongest downward motion of your hands. Bear in mind, this is not for emoting during a performance. This is just for practice, getting a kinesthetic application of the physical motion of your hand gesture transferring into musical motion. You should always keep motion in the music. Even rock music! There should be a feeling of going somewhere. Does that make sense?

I hope that's helpful! :)

[Gneetapp]

For me this was really really great until the chorus, which you struggled with. It felt shouted to me, but thin at the same time. I think that feeling stems from the sharp notes you had in there; you seemed to be over shooting in your attempt to hit the notes.

This song is huge and I think there are other songs out there that aren't as large a leap as this one, but will still challenge you. I think it takes a lot of guts to go for this song like you did, and props on that because your energy was fantastic, but I would work on your breath support, intonation, and control on this one.

I would love to hear some tenor-range, rock vocals from you - you should definitely check out Adam Lambert as I think his songs would definitely suit you and would be an apt challenge for you right now.

Kudos on the energy and verses, I would love to hear you re-try these choruses after some support and pitch work!

Hey Garnet, first of all thank you so much for taking the time to listen and comment. I totally agree with you regarding the difficulty level of this song, and I am totally aware that are several things to fix in this recording. This is why I posted here.

However, just to clarify, I found my way through my passaggio break just a couple of months ago, and it was by myself, with no coach to guide me. Since then, I started practicing singing several songs really challenging that are helping me to strength the coordination and build muscle memory (such as: Alone-Heart, Don't stop believing - Journey, Still loving you - Scorpions, Ben - M. Jackson, Miles away - Winger, In a darkened room - Skid Row, Coming Home - Cinderella, Fool for your loving - Whitesnake, Love aint no stranger - Whitesnake, Give me all your love tonight - Whitesnake, Superman - Five for Fighting, Sweet Child o'Mine - Guns, Nightrain - Guns, Like a stone - Audioslave). I already posted here my practice of Superman, Like a Stone, and Miles Away, so if you feel inclined to have a listen at those too, I would very much appreciate it.

Well, back to this thread, so this recording of Alone was actually the first time I could sing the whole song in maybe 2 weeks of unfocused practice. As a former "chest-puller", my only concern while singing this song was not to fall back into yelling mode, which I succeeded. Now, with the tips I'm getting here, from you and several others, I'll just keep practicing in my spare time, incorporating all the techniques needed, while strengthening the coordination and my voice. I will definitely re-post the improved version of this song and the others I have posted before.

Many thanks again, and don't forget to check my other vocal practices, if you don't mind.

Cheers

[Gneetapp]

Hey, Gneetapp. What I hear is: ( haha )

In the verses, the tone is mostly good. I think it's just your personality that makes it sound, well, like you. It's hard to explain, haha ( it reminds me somewhat of Axl Rose, don't know why )

And in the Chorus, the thing is, just like Garnet said, it sounds shouty. Thin, but shouty, which is pretty weird, haha. When I discovered the coordination for headvoice I tended to round and "OH/UH/OO"-ed everything, because it is the easiest way to stay in that mix.

And that is also what I hear in Bruce Dickinson or Fabio Lione, (who are the most operatical guys I've heard in the metal scene, btw ) and I tried to imitate their sound colour to sound "big", even though fold-ly ( haha ) I was not heavy or as adducted.

I suggest, practice the hell out of the coordination, and use more closed vowels so it is easier to stay in mix and it sounds like curbing or metal-like neutral. Then when you got a hold of it, start giving it more and more weight

( At least that is what I've done in my learning process, and it has worked for me So just my two cents n.n )

Hey man, many thanks for listening and commenting. I agree with you regarding the tone in the verses being better than in the chorus. But, does it sound like myself, or a copy of Axel Rose? Cause I really didn't have him on my mind while singing this...hahaha.

The chorus needs a lot of work. Today I was giving it a listen, and I got what MDEW said about being off-pitch but so close to the right pitch that it sounds weird. Well, as I said in another post, this was the first time in my practice that I got to sing this song completely, so I just had to post it here to find out if I am on the right track. I also agree with you and Garnet about the chorus being shouty and still light. But as I said, as I keep practicing the sounds get bigger/beefier. At least, it is happening with the chorus of Miles Away, it sounds fuller now than on the recording, and it came easier too.

I'm still having a hard time with the vowels, so the way I started practicing this week was singing an ooh (as an owl) and trying to keep that throat shape while singing the lyrics, and it is being helpful so far.

Many thanks again Seb

[Gneetapp]

Hey Aspiring, thanks again for stoping by, and helping me with a further analysis of the song. I couldn't agree more with you and MDEW regarding the chorus. I just listened to the recording and I got what you guys are saying. After "Till now" the tone changes completely, and for worse.

I liked what you suggested for practice, singing the whole sentence instead of the notes of each word. It makes more sense. I think it was 2 days ago I tried something the Xamedhi suggested me, practicing the song sentence by sentence, after the original singer, and the results are so much better.

Many thanks again, cheers.

[Xamedhi]

It's nice to know that it's working for you, man.

I need to clarify that there's nothing wrong with being light, if it's done right and you are giving your full energy and effort, then it's only a matter of time that the muscles gain strength and develop. But tone and pitch are more skill inclined. Practice imitating lots of sounds so you get more used to shaping your cavities. You could try imitating ( in a cartoonish way ) Cher, Tom Jones, Patrick Star (lol ), Fabio Lione and on the other side of the spectrum, Spongebob, Axl Rose, Geddy Lee. And having those contrasts will give you the sensation of the extremes so it will be easier and easier to find your balance.

[Xamedhi]

And btw, by the Axl Rose thing, haha, I just mean that your voice reminded me of him. Maybe in the brightness of the sound, idk. You don't sound like if you were trying to imitate anyone, if that's your concern, heheh. You sound very "yourself" so just keep singing the way you feel like.

[ronws]

And Gneetapp, you have done well on your own. And most time, the fix for the wobble is to actually relax. You could sing that song 100 times and still foul up on it when recording. I have done that a number of times and it irritates me to no end. Songs I have sang for a decade or so and then, when I press record, I step on my own feet.

And what has made my more recent performances improve is to not let a recording with a problem remain. Which does not mean I am hiding problems. And how would you get hints to fix a problem if you DON'T share a problematic recording? Kind of like, when the car makes an odd noise, you need it to make that same odd noise when you get it to the service garage.

But you may have some red light syndrome. It is similar to stagefright but even more insular than being in front of a crowd.

I bet the price of lunch that if you sang it, again, right now, it would sound different.

[Keith]

I just listened to it. Twice. I think that you are just not hitting the notes dead on. You sound like you are "fishing" for them sometimes. But yes, you have the range to sing then. Maybe you couldn't heart the backing track enough when you recorded it?

[Owen Korzec]

people have covered the main problems - too heady and off pitch up there.

unfortunately the fix for that is not at all simple - in order to really benefit on a song this difficult for you you'll have to change the way you approach practicing it.

Singing it all the way through is not as effective as a million other modifications you can make to it to train special aspects of it, I'll just give you some examples:

-to fix the pitch issues, sing the chorus in a comfortably quiet and powerless head voice/falsetto just so you can focus ONLY on pitch

-to fix the power issues, lower the key so that you can actually access power in your voice

-if the above makes you push chest again, go back to the original key to regain finesse - you alternate this and the above in search of a balance

-alternate vocalizing and singing phrases to transfer over your good vocalizing habits

-work phrases in isolation and repeat them over and over making small tweaks until they are perfect then keep repeating them to remember what that feels and sounds like

-sing lyrics legato on one vowel

-change consonants to easier consonants

-use scales to launch certain difficult phrases

-sing phrases extremely slowly

-overmodify vowels at first then gradually bring them back to the original

And a great coach can give you the added benefit of guiding you on WHEN to use these crutches in your practice

The idea is you give yourself these crutches to teach you the right coordination and over time you gradually take them out. if you just sing the song over and over again and try to control everything mentally it will take a very long time to get better because you'll repeat a lot of bad habits.

I know it's hard to do without a coach, but even an attempt at picking apart the song more and fixing little details, would be better than just singing it over and over, at least for now.

A good idea could be to find the hardest phrase of the song and only work on picking that apart and fixing details until it sounds right in the original key. By the time you figure out that one phrase pretty good, the others will have a head start from everything you learned battling the toughest one.

[Neko]

Wow! You have a really nice voice. I really appreciate that slight fry that you have. About the hight notes, I think they are absolutely in your DNA, but I think you have just to 'make them yours' a little bit more to reach you full potential. Keep rockin'!