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Questions about head voice (current student under TVS teacher)

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Zophixan
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Hello all,

I have been having lessons under a TVS teacher since October or November of last year, with breaks in between due to holidays / sickness. I have some questions about my head voice. It currently sounds like the tone described as "reinforced falsetto". I have been messing around with changing the vowels and singing GUM / GUGs in the head voice as well as working on twang.

I find when I twang it, it gets louder, but it still does not have the overtones which chest voice has (not even close).

What should I do to make it stronger? (obviously I will continue to go to my lessons but is there anything I can do to hasten it along?). I wouldn't characteristic it as a soft falsetto, as I can make it REALLY loud.

here are two links for you to hear: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/88391/A%20and%20Uh.wma

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/88391/tonexamples.wma

there is some constriction in the above examples as I'm just about recovered from sickness. the twang example isn't very good... will record another one.

I would love to sound like tone wise, like old James Labrie :-p

Thanks

Dave

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I cant hear the clip, but im very familiar with TVS. Basicly what you are doing is training your voice to be able to carry vocalfold mass up in the highrange.

It takes time and conditioning, so i wouldnt worry to much TVS is great for beefing up those headtones.

Also i would not say you have to make it stronger it's more about the vocalcolor :)

Best tip is use the The four pillars program and really work it, no halfassed shit, work work work.

Build that foundation.

Sing alot of songs emulate singers you like from that foundation, then after more work youll sound like that :)

Cheers

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Ah, I'm not sure why its not working, works for me :-s - is there any other service you can recomend to host clips of me singing?

I have the raise the voice book by Jaime Vendera and it says not to swell my falsetto (which I think I'm doing? Its the sort of sound you make when you sing a G5... but brought down an octave).

The sound between my chest voice and "head voice" is night and day at the moment.

thanks.

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Well, keep working. I didn't have any sudden 'jumps' since I've started but at some point things like bridging or singing lower or higher notes became much easier and it keeps getting easier.

That being said, Vendera's Transcending Tone exercises actually helped me A Lot and QUICKLY in this context. I've felt the difference after two days of practice. So did the Power Push (although I'm not sure if I'm even doing it exactly right, but I felt a difference for the good just by attempting to use it) I'm not there yet - I admit, but it's nice to have these good moments.

Jens mentioned it and I must agree - trying to make a good emulation of singers you like helps. Again, I can't sing In The Midnight Hour like Wilson Pickett - but trying to implement the things I figured out he does helped me improve. I've noticed that he uses some sort of staccato and I've modified the vowels accordingly - suddenly I don't sound like a tiny owl (now I'm at almost fully grown owl).

But even when you figure something out quickly - it's still work, work and work to maintain and develop it...

And with a basic diagram:

Me starting out-------------------- Me now (after a lot of practice and figuring out a few things) -----------------------------Good place to be ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Wilson Pickett

:-)

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Ah, I'm not sure why its not working, works for me :-s - is there any other service you can recomend to host clips of me singing?

I have the raise the voice book by Jaime Vendera and it says not to swell my falsetto (which I think I'm doing? Its the sort of sound you make when you sing a G5... but brought down an octave).

The sound between my chest voice and "head voice" is night and day at the moment.

thanks.

I've got a Mac and your clips are a windows format so I can't play them. You could upload your clips to box.net - a lot of people here use that site. That way anyone should be able to hear them regardless of operating system.

What you describe makes me think you are not really using head voice. You should be able to transition to a head voice that sounds like a continuation of chest - with basically the same overtone structure. You have to gradually thin the folds as you go up - if you hang on to thick folds you won't be able to get there, and you'll finally crack into falsetto, where you go super thin.

Here is an easy way to get into the right kind of head voice: Try an up/down siren on "ng" starting with a LIGHT chest voice on C4 - slowly go up to D4 and down to Bb3, and back up now to Eb4 and down to A3 and so on. Gradually widen the siren and go LIGHTER when reaching the higher pitches. But don't flip into falsetto - keep it connected.

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as you go up in range the unconditioned/underdeveloped voice's vocal fold muscles responsible for elongating them and keeping them adducted are simply not up to the task.

you won't hasten progress...you need to understand that...it takes time to develop these muscles and coordinations.

understand it's a slow process...but consistent and daily practice will get you there.

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Hello all,

I have been having lessons under a TVS teacher since October or November of last year, with breaks in between due to holidays / sickness. I have some questions about my head voice. It currently sounds like the tone described as "reinforced falsetto". I have been messing around with changing the vowels and singing GUM / GUGs in the head voice as well as working on twang.

I find when I twang it, it gets louder, but it still does not have the overtones which chest voice has (not even close).

What should I do to make it stronger? (obviously I will continue to go to my lessons but is there anything I can do to hasten it along?). I wouldn't characteristic it as a soft falsetto, as I can make it REALLY loud.

here are two links for you to hear: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/88391/A%20and%20Uh.wma

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/88391/tonexamples.wma

there is some constriction in the above examples as I'm just about recovered from sickness. the twang example isn't very good... will record another one.

I would love to sound like tone wise, like old James Labrie :-p

Thanks

Dave

For starters, you say your training TVS... who is your teacher... that is the first thing I need to know. 2nd, I have to agree with the sentiments here... building mass and connectivity in your head voice is not something that comes in a couple weeks... Your post reads as if your impatient and expect something to happen too quickly.

I will also add, there are no "gums" & "gugs" in TVS... so you mention that your studying TVS, but these are not TVS onsets or techniques... so what is it that your actually doing. Have you been working on "The Foundation Building Routine"... if so, let's hear samples of that...

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Hi guys, will post up a link in a minute, I uploaded them to box but theyre still .wma?

https://app.box.com/s/7py0bmbjl717wg06ir9z

https://app.box.com/s/edrnf3gas3n4tl2sl2nq

if this doesnt work i'll convert to mp3.

Hi Robert, My teacher is Sil - great teacher has helped my chest voice immensely and opened up the new voice I have. No complaints at all (in fact praise) but would love to be able to use my head voice as it sounds a bit cartoony at the moment.

I am slightly impatient but I understand the value of progress and hard work; am i to understand this will take a few years before i can use my head voice in a performance setting?

the gums and gugs come from me googling; I have the sort of personallity which when I have a hobby, I like to get all the info I can. If this is holding me back, I can stop it!

Not sure what the foundation building routine is... would it be the sirens, onsets etc?

many thanks all for your replies

Dave

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Hi Dave, pleased to meet you... so you are with TVS CI Sil Fiore... that is great! Good for you, she is seriously one of our best TVS teachers out of London... good to hear it... Although you should be more familiar with the foundation building routine... yes, the onsets & sirens are part of the "FBR"... Ill have Sil know that your in here asking questions...

But overall, I get the feeling that you may be a bit jumping the gun... ask Sil about specialized onsets to build the musculature in the head voice and the new "acoustic modes"... she will know what to do...

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I wouldn't characterize your head voice as "reinforced falsetto." Sounds like a solid head voice to me.

Yes, I hear some constriction. IMO, I think this comes from a lack of support underneath the sound. You said that you were just coming off of being sick, so that could affect your support. More likely, being sick has just affected your brain and the psychology of trying to sing well. Don't get me wrong. Being sick definitely affects how well you sing. But I find that when I am sick, I have to continually think about going back to the basics - good posture, good support, relaxed throat, etc. Then I can usually make it through short bursts with a really good sound.

That may have been a tangent because it may not be related to the problem.

The coordination of the right kind of tension with the right kind of relaxation is very difficult to achieve in singing. Has your breath support been addressed? I think that your sound in all of the examples is unsupported. The vibrato sounds a little forced/manufactured, which tells me that there's not a proper coordination of tension and relaxation. I think that you're on the right track with the ideas about chest voice, head voice and twang, but I also think that those ideas are (slightly) secondary to achieving good breath support. It sounds like the energy is begin initiated from your throat, when it should be initiated from the breath.

In particular, the glottal attack on the "Uh" sample makes me think that the focus is on the throat. I'm not familiar with TVS. Is a glottal attack part of the training? I'm not opposed to glottal attacks. I've only used glottal attacks as an exercise to address breathiness, which is not an issue for you. Just curious.

I'll echo everyone else here. Learning the coordination takes time. Sometimes, you go for long periods of time with little to no progress, and then suddenly a light bulb goes off in your head and you figure it out. Just keep at it. Keep asking questions. You have a good start. I think you'll figure it out.

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Sorry for late response.

This is me singing cemetary gates using chest in verse followed by half chest / head

https://app.box.com/s/kddoaxg1bntq8c7gfvcx

This is me singing the same but with mainly chest and one or two head voice notes

https://app.box.com/s/kgexqclgxsxu96hmyidt

and finally, just for laughs, is me singing innocence faded in mainly head with the occasional chest note.

https://app.box.com/s/8g8y01skv2dhx2p58fkq

As you can hear, theres a massive difference in tone between the chest and head, hence why I think its reinforced falsetto. So you guys think its definitely a sort of "full voice"?

I'll ask Sil about those things you mentioned. I'm excited to start lessons again, guess I have to keep practicing!

Dave

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Zophixan,

I am the founder of TVS, I produced the training content you are working with and I also trained Sil.

Your first link, is nothing more then a voice that is going into "head" voice positions without musculature engaged... there is nothing really unusual about this... How long have you been training? It takes a long time to build the strength and coordination to sing in the head voice and make it sound full...

Are you working the resistance onsets? Have you been working on the quack & release onset? Have you been training the dampen & release onset? Have you been working these onsets in both registers? Have you been working on good edging vowels with activation of the twanger? Have you been working the neutral vowel and training the interarytenoid and vocalis musculature? If your not doing this, you can't expect much in terms of quick results...

The 2nd file sounded a "hair" better... it has a little bit more compression, but there is no larynx dampening in here... are you training the dampen & release onset and getting a feel for how to manipulate and anchor your larynx? If not, its always going to sound a bit falsettoey. But generally speaking, this is not much different then the first link... its pretty much the same problem.

The 3rd link, more of the same... you simply don't have the intrinsic musculature developed... mostly, you have no larynx dampening , that would be the first thing I would work on... in addition to more active twang contractions by training your TVS edging vowels and more vocalis activations by training the neutral vowels.

Its the only way your going to do this... these onsets and acoustic modes (vowels) are all specified inside "The Four Pillars of Singing"... what are you doing when you train? Are you training the content in "Pillars"?

See the latest updates of "Pillar"... check out the Table of Contents:

http://tinyurl.com/4PillarsTableofContents

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Hey David, I'm looking forward to have you back at lesson,

Please read what Robert just wrote above, you need to practice on work outs to build up the strength you need to have for a consistent and chesty sound in your M2 (head voice) you cannot do it practicing on songs only.

Plus we have talked about vowel modification in songs, that is also massively needed in songs such as the one you have posted here.

See you on friday for some athlete work out!

P.s. you have the TVS foundation building routine on your Evernote folder.

Sil

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Hey David, I'm looking forward to have you back at lesson,

Please read what Robert just wrote above, you need to practice on work outs to build up the strength you need to have for a consistent and chesty sound in your M2 (head voice) you cannot do it practicing on songs only.

Plus we have talked about vowel modification in songs, that is also massively needed in songs such as the one you have posted here.

See you on friday for some athlete work out!

P.s. you have the TVS foundation building routine on your Evernote folder.

Sil

Well put... by one of our BEST TVS teachers.... anyone in London, contact Sil, she knows what she's doing...

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