raised larynx,tension, vocal space, soft palate, etc.

[nanom11]

hi, so i have a lot of doubts, i dont know if have to post them separated so ill just throw them all in here.

First i would like to know what exactly is all that about not raising the larynx and stuff, i cant imagine singing high loud notes without raising a little the larynx, and i think i do sing moving the larynx a little bit, but its like it moves up but until a point where i can still go higher but it doesnt moves anymore(i can always touch it and see it, never disappears). And there are many techniques which doesnt mention not moving the larynx, always being relaxed in the neck, jaw, and those areas, that i understand. relating to this, when i sing some veins always pop, but i dont feel any tension, i guess (and hope) it is for some blood aspects but i dont really know.

Another big doubt i have is about vocal space, i have problems when singing super high and loud, most times i cant make the vowels sound pure, it's like i can reach the note(still trying to perfection my pitch up on those notes) but it doesnt sounds pure, kinda sound like im hurting myself but i dont feel any pain or tension, when i do is due to air and support issues (not tooo much,i still have to perfection my support, singing super high notes require a lot of stamina.) its like theres no space for the high note and the volume, so it sounds like raspy or, but it is like it comes from the uvula (like fry screaming) but not intentional, and i cant seem to solve this, is it that i dont have a big mouth(can you make your mouth bigger?) or i have to raise the soft palate? (although most times it does naturally, if i try to raise more and intentionaly it feels weird and antinatural) or maybe it just breaks although i dont feel that.

and its even harder when it comes to the vowels "e""u""a"(in spanish, my language, this vowels are "i""u""e", but its the same in english), these problems come when trying to sing like super high, like at the edge of my tenor register or more. < how can i extend my register beyond my natural limits(wont accept no for an answer, i ve seen many singers achieve this) and reach, sing and mantain notes at the edge of my register with no problem, relaxed and without straining, is it all in the support and the resonators? if it is, how can i perfection it?

i dont have many examples of me singing, i do have a video of me singin feeling good in fb

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i also dont have many examples of songs with this kind of situations, but maybe the end of madness-muse or the part when matt(muse) sings "oh freedom.."(freakin e vowel) at the end of feeling good, or many songs by a band called "our last night"(the chorus of a song called oak island is a good example).

any help or comment is welcomed :)

[Owen Korzec]

1. the neutral larynx is a myth. the larynx is gonna raise up on high notes. just not a lot. what you're describing sounds fine.

2. popping veins without popping muscles happens in some people and it's fine. popping muscles is bad, popping veins isn't. so just figure out which and that will give you an idea.

3. the issues with perfecting the top notes, getting the fry out, the sound of strain out (which is strain btw you probably just have a high pain tolerance so you're not feeling it) etc. is a matter of throat shaping/vowel modifications/shifting to head resonance. has NOTHING to do with the size of your mouth it's all technique. and yes lifting the soft palate is part of it but don't worry too much about it.

4. ee and oo vowels are harder for everyone. still working on them myself. the solution is as i said in #3

5. extending range is mostly about support and resonance but not completely. i would recommend training with a coach (or continue training if you already are) to learn all about it

one more thing I noticed in your video is that you are blowing too much air and going too loud, forcing the high range. Try to think about using less air on higher notes and making the sound resonate in the back of your head rather than shouting it out the mouth. You want to find a more restrained, thinner, cry-like sound, but without strain. That might help you a bit.

[nanom11]

wow thanks for the quick response!

1) ive also heard that u should put your thumb under your jaw and if it gets tense it means your using wrong muscles?? a.k.a raising larynx. and i do feel some tension there, but i feel also without making any sound, like just shaping the vowel in my mouth, confused again!

2) i dont really know much about neck muscles and stuff so how could i know if im popping muscles? as i said, i dont really feel like tensing muscles, and i feel the resonance in my "mask" or whatever.

3) i feel the resonance in my face and the sound going through, just that the fry gets in the way, i really feel no pain and no itchnes in the throat, nothing. are you familiar with screaming? the use of false chords and fry screaming? im getting into it so im no expert, just throwing it.

Ive realised that if i try to build the sound i can get to it pure, but i have trouble when trying to get to it like fast, like hiting only that sound. maybe it is related to what u said about blowing too much air. And i have no idea how to control that, i mean its what my body does automaticly.

i've tried what u said about making the high sounds thinner and resonating in the back of my head, so i found myslef doing weird mouth shapes, and finally i got it, a feeling in the head, more controled thinner sound. So i guess when u focus more on the mouth and the teeth and hard palate and like the front u get more power, but u can do it the other way , the way u said, for those reading this, something that helped me doing the kind of thinner sound was like rising me cheeks like smiling. though i dont like how this changes the actual vowel shape and my jaw feels kinda forced, throwing it all into the mouth on the other hand gets the full shape of the vowel, maybe theres a way of doing that thinner sound in the back of the head with relaxed jaw and full shape of the vowel??.

im just throwing stuff here, nothing studied or professional, just giving my view, can be wrong.

concerning breath control, im still working on it, some tips would be nice. ive realised the higher i get the louder i get, and i cant control that, i dont know if that can be controlable.

this has already been really helpful so thanks!! some tips on breath control a vowel modification would be nice, appreciate the help!

[gno]

Yes - you can monitor some of your constrictors (muscles used in swallowing) by putting your thumb under your jaw. Try singing an "ee" and make sure those muscles aren't activated. Improving singing technique involves reducing or eliminating tension in muscles that aren't needed and the constrictors are often accidentally activated and can cause issues which prevent good technique.

As for range extension, you can go really high if you work at it. It helps to do regular exercises aimed at range extension instead of "winging" it. You need to build correct coordination and strength gradually. You can get there quickly and safely if you follow a methodical approach. It's a bit like weight lifting in that if you want to bench 300 pounds you need to start at 50. But it differs from weight lifting in that you don't want to constantly tear and rebuild muscles. In singing you are building fine coordination of the TA and CT muscles as well as careful shaping of vowels. You are also building muscle memory (creating neural pathways) which takes repetition over a period of time.

[nanom11]

hey thanks for the info, can make te vowels without activating those muscles, but they are completely nasal and i dont move my mouth, meaning i cant pronunciate correctly the vowels(without forcing those tiny fuckin muscles) but again, without even producing sound, just by opening a wide vowel it gets harder there, so kasfjgaj.

nice gym reference there, thanks very clear!

[Owen Korzec]

my response in bold

wow thanks for the quick response!

1) ive also heard that u should put your thumb under your jaw and if it gets tense it means your using wrong muscles?? a.k.a raising larynx. and i do feel some tension there, but i feel also without making any sound, like just shaping the vowel in my mouth, confused again!

yea don't worry about that tension under the jaw at the moment, same with raised larynx. both of those things, the importance of removing those tensions is greatly overemphasized by most teachers and introduced too early in the learning curve - it is actually an advanced skill that's supposed to be taught later after the student's breath support is doing very well.

2) i dont really know much about neck muscles and stuff so how could i know if im popping muscles? as i said, i dont really feel like tensing muscles, and i feel the resonance in my "mask" or whatever.

tensed neck muscles are generally thicker and they pop out a LOT more

3) i feel the resonance in my face and the sound going through, just that the fry gets in the way, i really feel no pain and no itchnes in the throat, nothing. are you familiar with screaming? the use of false chords and fry screaming? im getting into it so im no expert, just throwing it.

Ive realised that if i try to build the sound i can get to it pure, but i have trouble when trying to get to it like fast, like hiting only that sound. maybe it is related to what u said about blowing too much air. And i have no idea how to control that, i mean its what my body does automaticly.

i've tried what u said about making the high sounds thinner and resonating in the back of my head, so i found myslef doing weird mouth shapes, and finally i got it, a feeling in the head, more controled thinner sound. So i guess when u focus more on the mouth and the teeth and hard palate and like the front u get more power, but u can do it the other way , the way u said, for those reading this, something that helped me doing the kind of thinner sound was like rising me cheeks like smiling. though i dont like how this changes the actual vowel shape and my jaw feels kinda forced, throwing it all into the mouth on the other hand gets the full shape of the vowel, maybe theres a way of doing that thinner sound in the back of the head with relaxed jaw and full shape of the vowel?? yes that's what you want.

im just throwing stuff here, nothing studied or professional, just giving my view, can be wrong.

concerning breath control, im still working on it, some tips would be nice. ive realised the higher i get the louder i get, and i cant control that, i dont know if that can be controlable you will get louder the higher you go, you just don't want to get way louder like you are shouting. try to train your high notes at a volume that's somewhere between speech and shouting..

this has already been really helpful so thanks!! some tips on breath control a vowel modification would be nice, appreciate the help!

[ronws]

Motion, when necessary, in the abs.

Note in the head.

Nothing in the throat, ever, amen.

:)

[Owen Korzec]

breath control and vowel modification aren't really things you can give "tips" on, you're gonna wanna study with a great coach to learn them one-on-one so that they can fix your problems in real time and help you progress by making sure you're not doing subtle things incorrectly that can screw it all up