Attempting to Understand Throat involvement.

[aaron0326]

I am confused regarding the role of the throat in producing support. I'm still a bit uneducated regarding all the mechanisms and how they coordinate but it seems like my resonance exercises are literally taking my throat out of the equation and sending all the air from my diaphragm straight to my nose. It makes me feel like voice is all empty breath. I understand there has to be to a balanced flow of air between the mouth and throat but I don't get how to send air through my mouth without placing most or all the stress on my throat. What I refer to as the "throat" element tends to attach itself to a more distorted sound which I have always thought to originate at the base of the tongue. My inability to produce it well probably discredits what I believe to be going on lol.

Marcus Mumford is a really good illustration of someone who seems to sing from his throat which is essentially the opposite of how I feel after doing resonance exercises. The following link illustrates what I am referring to pretty well.

Can anyone clear this up for me considering it makes any sense? Can't figure it out to save my life.

[VideoHere]

the throat has no role in producing support, however, the throat can be a resonator.

why not send us a vocal sample so we can hear what's going on. as a beginner, you want to learn how get the voice up & out of the throat.

as my brotha ronws on the forum says "nothing in the throat." and yes, your resonance exercises should not involve the throat.

what exercises are you doing?

[ronws]

The voice. Air passes through membranes in relative proximity to each other and bang around various cavities until they add back on each other to produce a sound that emanates.

What Bob is talking about is part of my 3 step mantra. Kind of like a haiku.

Motion, when necessary, in the abs. (breath support.)

Note in the head. (resonance)

Nothing in the throat, ever, amen. (no undue strain that results in damage.)

Ffrangcon-Davies, a famous opera singer in the early 20th century once said, as quoted by Lilli Lehmann and others, "When I sing, I feel as if I have no throat, at all."

Which is not to say there is not tension. You have tension in your arms when you raise a bottle of water to drink. But it should be something endurable. And for some people, the new coordinations in singing my seem like a strain but it is only the difficulty of forming a new and better habit.

[ChumelsVanCogle]

right,if you have strain in the neutral throat, it means your forcing something and relying too heavily on TA muscles. when you sing, force is in play in the muscles connected to lowering the larynx and in the pharynx area.leaving the "middle" throat with little strain.

anyways for complete beginners I recommend an "oh/yoh" sound

[aaron0326]

right,if you have strain in the neutral throat, it means your forcing something and relying too heavily on TA muscles. when you sing, force is in play in the muscles connected to lowering the larynx and in the pharynx area.leaving the "middle" throat with little strain.

anyways for complete beginners I recommend an "oh/yoh" sound

Thank you! I think I may be actually be interpreting throat involvement for throat relaxation.. The days where I have the most full and rich tone are always the most effortless. The sound I get just sounds so much colorful and alive so I always though I was utilizing more of my throat when perhaps what is really going on is a more complete relaxation? There was a period of time when I did exercises before performing by singing scales of "eh" in bursts that ended as soon as they began(tip from Eric Arceneaux which I can no longer find on youtube). As I did them, my voice would gradually become more open and full. By the time I was ready to sing, the exercises felt really boomy inside my throat if that makes sense and it felt like a bottom layer of support was added to my voice. This "layer" added more bass, volume, and ease. I just don't feel like I even have access to that part of my voice lately and I can really do the exercises. Does this make any sense?

[Remylebeau]

Thank you! I think I may be actually be interpreting throat involvement for throat relaxation.. The days where I have the most full and rich tone are always the most effortless. The sound I get just sounds so much colorful and alive so I always though I was utilizing more of my throat when perhaps what is really going on is a more complete relaxation? There was a period of time when I did exercises before performing by singing scales of "eh" in bursts that ended as soon as they began(tip from Eric Arceneaux which I can no longer find on youtube). As I did them, my voice would gradually become more open and full. By the time I was ready to sing, the exercises felt really boomy inside my throat if that makes sense and it felt like a bottom layer of support was added to my voice. This "layer" added more bass, volume, and ease. I just don't feel like I even have access to that part of my voice lately and I can really do the exercises. Does this make any sense?

When you make these big and powerful tones, do you feel vibrations in your throat? Often when we produce big tones we feel synthetic vibrations in our neck and upper chest that we don't feel when we're making smaller tones. Don't confuse these vibrations with straining your throat, there's absolutely nothing wrong with them. If you're putting too much stress on your vocal folds, they will hurt and you will feel it. If it's not hurting, keep experimenting.

In any case, I think Chumels is right that you're trying to find a lower larynx position. Put your hand on your Adam's Apple and do an exaggerated yawn sigh. You should feel it drop. You should also feel your soft palate lifting in the back of your mouth.

Try singing on a vowel while holding that yawn sigh position. The UH vowel is a good low larynx vowel to practice with. Don't worry about how it sounds right now, the object is to purposefully exaggerate the low larynx so you know what it feels like.

Once you've got that, then you want to get a feel for what a super high larynx is like. Sing a pure E vowel near the top of your comfortable range. You should notice your larynx shoot straight up.

Your ultimate goal is to get to a place where your singing is done between these two extremes. But for right now, I'd say generally exaggerate towards the lower larynx end. The natural tendency of beginners is to keep the larynx in the position we use for speaking, which is typically too high for good singing.

You want to feel like your voice is traveling up and back towards your soft palate, not like it's going forward to your mouth. This is just a feeling, of course, it really is going out of your mouth. But if you can get this feeling, then you're likely keeping an open throat.

[Robert Lunte]

No support or trying to "sing from the throat"! "Top Down" phonations, not "bottom up"... These guys are smart on correct. This is a very basic understanding about singing technique.

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[andu11170]

Hi,

When you sing from your diaphragm or support correctly, there is no need for your throat to get involved because the act of supporting correctly will close the vocal cords. If you don't support correctly, then the swallowing muscles will close the vocal cords instead, which then means you are singing from your throat.

Basically you:

1) Inhale - this provides the air needed to sing

2) Apply Support - this closes the vocal cords which creates the pitch

3) Keep the Resonance Chambers Open - This will allow the fundamental of the pitch to be reinforced in the correct chamber. For lower notes it will be the laryngopharynx (just above the vocal cords), for middle tones it will be the oropharynx (just behind the mouth) and for higher notes it will be the nasopharynx (aorund the nasal cavities).

If the note is being reinforced in the correct chamber, then it shouldn't be all "empty breath".

The mouth itself is not a good resonator, and instead should be used for amplification once a note has been reinforced in the correct resonance chamber - like the end of a trumpet.

Regards

Andy

[Felipe Carvalho]

Get a teacher or the program and start training, without even hearing what you are doing currently, it's not possible to help you.

In most of the time, sensations of sound coming from the throat is just some kind of tension, tongue, jaw, etc. That may or may not be happening because of support.

[aaron0326]

Wow I really appreciate all the help guys this has really helped! I did my best to apply these tips to my warmups on Saturday prior to playing a show and I noticed a huge difference! My resonance and range were excellent.

[sigsig]

Great information on the throat, here:

http://completevocalinstitute.com/cvtresearchsite/the-throat-2/

On support:

"The work and movement which controls the outflow of air. Support means working against the natural urge of the diaphragm to release air. This is achieved through the interaction of three muscle groups in the abdomen, loin and back."