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anotherreason25

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Martin - Very interesting info. Ok what are the primary adductors? Interarytenoids? And - what is the EGG measuring anyway?

The primary adductors are the the lateral cricoarytenoids (LCA) and the interarytenoids (IA).

The EGG measures the contact phase of the vocal folds by an electric current. You can derive how long the vocal folds stay together during one cycle also called the closed quotient (CQ) and you can predict how much of the vocal folds are in contact (mass) by the amplitude of the EGG signal.

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Thanks Martin, very interesting. So the old research (from the 70ies) about that was actually wrong about the existence of a "mixed" voice state?

Do you know what is the current status about limits and transition points? All the papers I know suggest a limit of M1 mode in the A4-C5 area.

And what about adduction? From my experience the voice will switch from M1 to M2 when adduction gets too low at a certain level of pitch, which would still support what I said above that you will have an earlier transition into M2 when you sing soft (even if its not mass but adduction that decreases).

A last thing to note is that from what I know the TA are coupled with the primary adductors, which means that higher TA always goes hand in hand with higher adduction. So the TA would still be a big factor in intensity variation, but not in register transition?

An most interesting: What is it then that causes the transition into M2, especially the "early" transition (as in female classical singing) vs. late transition. Is it an adduction threshold, or a vocal tract setup ?

I would have to see some of the older research before I can comment on them specifically in regards to current knowledge (actually some of the research I'm referring to in regards to thick/thin folds and length is from the 70's as I recall). But when the vocal folds become elongated some of the mass involved in vibration is lowered. However, this is a result of the pitch regulation and not registration. So in this sense there is an "in between" or "mix". But it's a state between low and high pitch and not something that happens on the same pitch when changing dynamics.

Yes, the transition point seems to be in that area (A4-C5) but of course it depends on the individual (individuality principle).

The TA is a secondary adductor. So yes, it has an effect on overall adduction but it's still secondary.

The switch from M1 to M2 is done by the TA. When the TA is adequately relaxed the vocal fold ligament will carry the longitudinal tension and then the vibratory pattern changes. So the TA is the factor in register transition between M1 and M2.

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I would have to see some of the older research before I can comment on them specifically in regards to current knowledge (actually some of the research I'm referring to in regards to thick/thin folds and length is from the 70's as I recall). But when the vocal folds become elongated some of the mass involved in vibration is lowered. However, this is a result of the pitch regulation and not registration. So in this sense there is an "in between" or "mix". But it's a state between low and high pitch and not something that happens on the same pitch when changing dynamics.

Cool, thanks. That "middle voice" thing was indeed about pitch modulation, so it might still be correct then. Unfortunately I have only found the quote and I maybe got it out of context and its not really from the 70ies. The author is Lloyd W. Hanson, though, here is the original quote:

The american researcher and voice teacher Lloyd W. Hanson finds between modal function and non-modal function an area that he denotes as "middle voice" or "mixed voice". As a main characteristics according to Hanson the vocalis muscle is not part of the vibration anymore, but the ligament is still part of it. It is only in non-modal voice that the edges only are part of the vibration without the vocalis muscle and ligament. According to him, the "middle voice" is the main register of the countertenor.

Yes, the transition point seems to be in that area (A4-C5) but of course it depends on the individual (individuality principle).

Of course, yes. What I was aiming at is that singing within M1 in the middle to high 5th octave, while not impossible, is quite unlikely, so most of the singers that go to his area to have a part of their range where they use M2 regularly.

And also a switch to M2 at around A4 as I claimed for my siren would not be something very surprising or unusual.

The TA is a secondary adductor. So yes, it has an effect on overall adduction but it's still secondary.

The switch from M1 to M2 is done by the TA. When the TA is adequately relaxed the vocal fold ligament will carry the longitudinal tension and then the vibratory pattern changes. So the TA is the factor in register transition between M1 and M2.

Very good insight. So the TA plays a big role in registration but a minor role in volume control if I got that right. But still the TA has a tendency to rise with volume because of its function as a secondary adductor. Or vice versa: The volume has a tendency to rise with higher TA activation, which also explains why for most people volume will rise at least slightly on the way from M1 into M2.

And this is exactly the effect that probably lead to my statement about "soft singing" and which is what I experience. To sing higher in pitch I need more TA and with that comes unevitably a slightly higher amount of adduction and therefore volume/intensity. I can only counteract that up to a certain pitch by lowering the larynx/covering before I will lose the "soft" character of the sound.

If I choose to counteract by lessening TA activation though, it will cause an earlier transition into M2, right? So my point would still remain valid, even if my explanation was wrong. Staying "soft" (low compression) when rising pitch will cause an earlier transition into M2.

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And this is exactly the effect that probably lead to my statement about "soft singing" and which is what I experience. To sing higher in pitch I need more TA and with that comes unevitably a slightly higher amount of adduction and therefore volume/intensity. I can only counteract that up to a certain pitch by lowering the larynx/covering before I will lose the "soft" character of the sound.

If I choose to counteract by lessening TA activation though, it will cause an earlier transition into M2, right? So my point would still remain valid, even if my explanation was wrong. Staying "soft" (low compression) when rising pitch will cause an earlier transition into M2.

To sing higher in pitch you need more tension, and whether that is done by increased TA activation or longitudinal tension (CT) is highly dynamic.

And yes, if you reach the lower threshold of the TA activation you'll transition into M2. But again, it's individual. Staying "soft" in M1 will not necessarily cause an early M2 transition since the dynamics are still mainly controlled by the primary adductors.

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Fantastic info guys. Thanks for unraveling part of the mystery.

Let me pose another question - (I think the answer will be yes) - Would Overdrive always be M1 with the same basic TA/CT ratio and primary adductor activity all the way up to C5?

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Excellent discussion... makes me proud... smart stuff here... great contributions you guys... this is golden. I can't help but sit back and just be reminded that the human voice has so many elements and factors to consider even in one voice, let alone comparing multiple voices to each other...

My understanding is that some of Miller's research has been proven to be obsolete.

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To sing higher in pitch I need more TA and with that comes unevitably a slightly higher amount of adduction and therefore volume/intensity. I can only counteract that up to a certain pitch by lowering the larynx/covering before I will lose the "soft" character of the sound.

Me too....

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